Nine killed at South Carolina church

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Actually, President Obama, Mass Killings Aren’t Uncommon In Other Countries


JUNE 18, 2015 By David Harsanyi


President Barack Obama responded to the horrific shooting at a historic black church in Charleston that left nine dead with an earnest statement—well, other than that contention that was completely untrue.


Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. … We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.




Let’s set aside the assertion that it’s too easy to obtain guns in America and deal with the implication that we are somehow uniquely violent or that “mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.” The president has made this claim in various ways and with various qualifiers.*



Parlez vous Hebdo? Because surely the president recalls that in January of this year two gunmen entered the office of a satirical magazine in France with an assortment of guns and murdered 11 people (and injured 11 more). After leaving, they killed a police officer. And in a marketplace catering to Jews another five were murdered and 11 wounded. France is, allegedly, an advanced country, is it not? Perhaps if Obama had attended the anti-terror rally in Paris like every other leader of advanced countries did, his recollection would be sharper.




It only takes some quick research to discover that rampage killers, acts of terror (as the Charleston shooting most certainly is), school attacks, spree killers are not unique to the United States.
In 2011, a deranged Anders Behring Breivik killed eight people by setting off a van bomb in Oslo, before going on to murder 69 more people, mostly children, at a summer camp. This is the single worst shooting spree incident in history. Obama surely remembers that he left the White House and visited the Norwegian ambassador’s residence to offer his condolences.





It takes only a rudimentary search to find out that mentally unstable killers can be found anywhere. In February of this year, nine people were killed in Czech Republic spree killing. In Erfurt, Germany, a couple of years ago, an expelled student murdered 13 teachers, 2 students and a policeman. That same year, in the Serbian village of Velika Ivanča, a gunman shot and killed 14 people—many of them his own relatives— and a Russia gunman opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle killing six people. A couple of years before that, in England, a lone gunman killed 12 people and injured 11.




Advanced countries or developing ones, it’s the same thing. In 2013 a mentally unstable man in Rio de Janeiro killed 12 children and seriously wounded another 12. And you might remember that China had an outbreak of mass stabbings, hammer and cleaver attacks not long ago. You don’t need guns to kill people. One man stabbed 22 children by himself. Two attackers killed 29 people and injured 143 at Chinese railway station last year.




It should be noted that not that long ago advanced nations in Europe were busy throwing people into ovens or starving millions on purpose. The idea that violence is uniquely American is best left to fringe leftists on college campuses. Moreover, as The Associate Press reported in 2012, many experts contend that mass shootings are not growing in frequency at all. One has data that shows that mass shootings reached their peak in 1929 and have declined steadily since. Overall, gun violence has also been declining since 1993.




Now, even one shooting is a tragedy. What happened in Charleston is horrifying and heartbreaking, and there’s nothing wrong with having a debate about how to avoid shootings in the future. As for the frequency of these events, there can be a host of reasons why we might have more rampages. Maybe we’re freer and this puts us in more danger. Maybe we need better mental health policies. Maybe, as the president argues, we have access to too many guns. I don’t think so, but make that argument rather than trying to score political points with a falsehood.




*Update: Most of the pushback on social media claims that I’m being unfair to Obama. The president, they argue, is saying that we have a higher frequency of shootings, not that mass shooting are a predominately American event. (Even then, he might not be right.)



It’s clear Obama is stressing separate points, and without doubt the perception he’s trying to create is that this type of “mass” violence is something that almost never happens anywhere else. It’s nothing new for him. Here’s his tweet from the speech yesterday:


At the very best, as Politifact might put it, his comments are half true. I’ve gone back and read Obama’s remarks over the years on gun issues and he’s always tossing around this idea. Sometimes he interchanges mass violence and all gun violence. Sometimes he compares us to the “developed world” and sometimes he compares us to the “advanced world”— it’s difficult to understand what countries he’s talking about. But he doesn’t always throw a qualifier in about frequency or anything else.




So if you don’t like the quote today, here is one from last year:


My biggest frustration has been that this society has not been willing to take some basic steps to keep guns out of the hands of people who can do just unbelievable damage. We are the only developed country on earth where this happens. And that it happens now once a week. And it’s a one day story.”





This “society” has a problem. We are the only developed country on earth where this happens. Untrue.

 

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[h=1]Confederate flags burned and monuments defaced as South Carolina protesters lash out in wake of racially motivated Charleston church massacre[/h]
  • Protesters in South Carolina have begun burning Confederate flags in response to the state's refusal to remove the flag from the capitol
  • In Charleston, a monument honoring Confederate soldiers who defended the city during the Civil War was vandalized
  • The vandal or vandals spray painted the base, writing 'Black Lives Matter' and 'This is the problem #racist'
  • Meanwhile, presidential hopefuls have been doing their best to not weigh in on the controversy in any definitive manner
  • Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee both said it should be a state choice, while Hillary Clinton has not commented at all
  • On Saturday, Mitt Romney wrote on social media that the flag should be taken down in the wake of Wednesday's racially motivated massacre




PUBLISHED: 20:23, 21 June 2015 | UPDATED: 23:40, 21 June 2015




Protesters in South Carolina have begun burning Confederate flags and defacing monuments as the debate as to whether or not the flag should fly over the state's capital intensifies in the wake of Wednesday's brutal massacre that saw nine people murdered because they were black.
Dylann Roof has been charged with nine counts of murder after attending a Bible study class at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston and then opening fire on those in attendance.
It has been reported that when asked to stop during the brutal killings, Roof said; 'No, you've raped our women, and you are taking over the country ... I have to do what I have to do.'
Now, many in the state and around the country are outraged that despite Roof's admitted racial motivation the flag has not been taken down.
Making many even more upset is the fact that Roof frequently posed with the Confederate flag, implying a greater allegiance to that flag than the American flag.


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Fire: Protesters in South Carolina have begun burning Confederate flags (above) in response to the state's refusal to remove the flag from the capitol

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Speaking out: In Charleston, a monument honoring Confederate soldiers who defended the city during the Civil War was vandalized (above)


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Protest: The vandal or vandals spray painted the base, writing 'Black Lives Matter' and 'This is the problem #racist' (above)

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Covered up: Soon after the graffiti was discovered a tarp was brought in to cover the statue (above)


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I have a gun, same one for almost 17 years.... It has never killed anyone. Hell, I've never even seen it move, much less load itself. Maybe mine is defective.

BTW... if guns are gone, who will have them? And, there are other ways to kill people. Had that person used a home-made bomb it would probably had more drastic results. So, if he didn't have access to a gun, it might have been a lot worse.

But, it is still very sad. Its not GUNS... Its the mental stability of people who GET A GUN. If they want to kill someone, not having a gun wont stop them.

What is our population compared to those in your little chart? I didn't read past your post, because I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to blame the 2nd amendment as usual.

Why is it that these young kids who do this are always on some type of medication?
 

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Social media shows numerous protesters in the state burning Confederate flags, and a monument in Charleston's White Point Gardens was discovered with graffiti on Sunday morning.
The monument, To the Confederate Defenders of Charleston - Fort Sumter, was erected in 1932 as a gift from The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
It is an allegorical depiction of the Confederate army in the city holding off Union forces during the civil war.


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The vandal or vandals spray painted the base, writing 'Black Lives Matter' and 'This is the problem #racist.'

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They also wrote 'Riley and Haley -Why defend this evil -This the root of our evil,' a note for Mayor Joe Riley and Governor Nikki Haley.
A tarp was brought in to cover up the writing soon after the vandalism was discovered, but not before ABC 4 managed to get a video of the writing on the monument.
Riley and Haley both attended service Sunday morning at Emanuel Church, the first since the shooting occurred earlier this week.
The hot button issue of whether or not the flag should fly is now being posed to presidential hopefuls as they tour the country, with candidates on both sides reluctant to give a firm answer one way or the other for fear of losing voters.
Lindsey Graham has come out strongly in favor of letting the flag fly, while Mike Huckabee said on Meet the Press that it is a decision that should be left up to the state, not the federal government.
Rick Santorum also sidestepped the question on ABC's This Week, echoing Huckabee's sentiment.
Even Hillary Clinton has failed to make a comment about the controversy.
Mitt Romney however on Saturday joined growing calls for South Carolina's Capitol to take down its Confederate flag in the wake of the shooting.
That same day, hundreds of people staged a protest against the flag in Columbia.
A petition on MoveOn.org has garnered more than 320,000 signatures.


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[h=3]REPUBLICAN HOPEFULS ON CONFEDERATE FLAG DEBATE[/h]Jeb Bush:'In Florida, we acted, moving the flag from the state grounds to a museum where it belonged.'
Lindsey Graham: 'This is part of who we are. The flag represents — to some people — the Civil War, and that was the symbol of one side.'
Mike Huckabee: This is a state issue.
Rick Santorum: This is a state issue.
Marco Rubio: This is a state issue.
Ted Cruz: This is a state issue.
Carly Fiorina: Admitted it was a symbol of 'racial hatred' but then said her 'personal opinion is not what’s relevant here.'
Scott Walker: Ignored reporter question.
John Kasich: Ignored reporter question.



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[h=3]WHAT MAKES THE CONFEDERATE FLAG CONTENTIOUS?[/h]The 150-year-old flag was originally used as a Civil War battle flag by the seven slave states (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas) that broke away from the Union in 1861.
Due to the racist policies of those states, many calling for the flag's removal say it symbolizes hatred and white supremacy.
It gained its modern meaning from the 1950s onwards when it was used in opposition to the Civil Rights movement that sought to end segregation and create equal right for blacks.
In 1962, when the civil rights movement was cresting and the president was putting pressure on the south to end segregation, South Carolina proudly flew the flag in protest.



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Despite promises from state governors to 'start talking about it', there is no indication that the appeals are having an effect.
Showing his support for the protesters, one-time Republican presidential candidate Romney branded it a 'symbol of racial hatred'.

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'Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims,' he wrote on Twitter.
His statement could provide a challenge to a number of the Republicans vying for the 2016 nomination, who rely on support from the far-right South and are already struggling to toe a pro-guns line following the tragedy.
One of the hopefuls, Jeb Bush, has also spoken out against the flag, echoing President Obama who said it belongs in a museum not on a flagpole.
'In Florida, we acted, moving the flag from the state grounds to a museum where it belonged,' Bush said, adding: 'I'm confident [South Carolina's government] will do the right thing.'
The century-old debate has been reignited after it emerged suspect Dylann Roof proudly dislpayed Confederate flags on his car and outside his home.
The 150-year-old flag was originally used as a Civil War battle flag by the seven slave states that broke away from the Union in 1861.
But those calling for its removal say the banner is an inappropriate symbol because of its racist associations.
'We see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate, as a tool for hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence,' said Cornell Brooks, president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). 'That symbol has to come down, that symbol must be removed from our state capitol.'
Marching through Columbia on Saturday, the crowds held up signs saying 'honk to take down the flag', and sang We Shall Overcome.
They also held a silence for the nine murdered: Susie Jackson, Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, DePayne Doctor, Ethel Lance, Daniel Simmons Sr., Clementa Pinckney, Cynthia Hurd, and Tywanza Sanders.
At a vigil for the victims on Friday night, attended by thousands, Charleston mayor Joe Riley refreshed his pleas for the state government to remove the flag.
He added an appeal for gun control: 'There has got to be a better way.


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Protests: Hundreds of people staged a protest against the flag (center) in Columbia, SC, on Saturday

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'2015 - really??': One sign expresses shock that the flag is still flying 150 years after the civil war

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One protester holds a burned Confederate flag during the rally at the South Carolina Statehouse

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Lennos Lemon, 12, sits on the South Carolina Statehouse steps in a silent appeal for symbolic action



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'We do not want to live in a country where we need a security guard in a bible center.'
Many Southern whites, though, reject the notion that the flag is inherently racist. Rather it is a long-cherished symbol of their heritage and an expression of a distinctive Southern identity, they say.
'This is part of who we are,' said Lyndsey Graham, a Republican U.S. senator and candidate for the presidency in 2016.
He says the flag is simply a symbol of one of the sides that fought bravely in the Civil War, and little more, even though some people may have used it in a racist way in the past.
That view was echoed by Robert Lyday, 64, a retired mechanic who lives in Lexington, South Carolina, and who was selling pins and cupcakes in the town's bowling alley to raise money for a local college fund.
'People make too much of the Confederate flag. We need to keep it around to remember our history and learn from it,' he said. 'The state flies it because it is part of its history and I agree with that.'
On Friday, the White House joined the debate, saying that Obama believes the rebel flag belonged in a museum.
Don Doyle, a professor of history at the University of South Carolina in Columbia, said that the Confederate flag gained its modern meaning from the 1950s onwards when it was used in opposition to the Civil Rights movement that sought to end segregation and create equal right for blacks.
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Despite promises from governors to 'start talking about it', there is no sign the appeals are having an effect

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Marching through Columbia on Saturday, the crowds held up signs saying 'honk to take down the flag'

'It's a symbol that is not just heritage and history ... but it has become a symbol of rebellion against what I consider to be just basic American values of equality, liberty and justice,' said Doyle, who has studied the history of the South for 35 years.
For Doyle it is no coincidence that the flag was raised over South Carolina's state house in 1962, when the civil rights movement was cresting and the federal government was putting mounting pressure on states to end segregation.
Many South Carolinians were particularly galled when the Confederate flag was left flying high after Wednesday's massacre, even as the state and national flag were lowered to half-staff. Although the Confederate flag was near the capitol building, not on its dome, the omission was seen as a mark of insensitivity.
Dylann Roof, the suspect in the Charleston shooting, had a Confederate flag on the license plate of the car he was driving when he was arrested. Just this week, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a ban in Texas on license plates bearing the Confederate flag.


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[h=1]WHY DO GUNMEN TARGET CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS, NOT NRA MEETINGS?[/h]
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by AWR HAWKINS20 Jun 2015636

In the wake of the heinous attack on Charleston’s Emanuel American Methodist Episcopal Church, Democrats’ ritual calls for more gun control have louder than usual, and a mainstream media’s focus on the threat of “mass shootings” has been kicked up a notch.
The question none of the Democrats or media outlets have asked is why gunmen, historically speaking, attack churches and school but bypass NRA meetings?
Why do they target Fort Hood twice within a five years period while opening fire in Walmart remains unpopular?
To ask the questions is to answer them. Law-abiding citizens are largely prohibited from possessing guns for self-defense in churches and schools around the country, but they may be heavily and openly armed at an NRA meeting. Likewise, soldiers are then mandated to be unarmed on stateside military bases while law-abiding shoppers at Walmart can and frequently do carry guns to protect themselves and their families.
Consider James Holmes, the individual who allegedly shot and killed 12 and wounded 70 during a July 20, 2012, showing of “The Dark Knight Rises” at an Aurora movie theater. Shortly after the attack, Fox News reported that there were seven movie theaters showing the film within a 20-minute radius of Holmes’ residence, some of which were closer than the Cinemark theater he attacked.
For example, the Cinemark theater was a four mile long, eight minute car ride, while another theater showing the film “was only 1.2 miles (3 minutes) away.” But of all the theaters within a 20-minute radius, including the one just three minutes away, the Cinemark theater was the only one that barred law-abiding citizens from carrying guns for self-defense.
The lesson is clear: Gun control literally enables criminals; it makes their lives easier by guaranteeing otherwise pesky and determined victims will not have the ability to defend themselves once the shooting starts.
Example: A survivor from the attack on Charleston’s Emanuel African American Episcopal Church said her only course of action against the gunman was to plead with him to stop.
Unarmed people are vulnerable people, and criminal predators prey upon them.
Follow AWR Hawkins on Twitter: @AWRHawkins. Reach him directly at awrhawkins@breitbart.com.
 

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[h=1]Obama to give eulogy at funeral of Charleston pastor murdered during South Carolina church shooting[/h]
  • Vice President Joe Biden will also attend the Charleston, South Carolina, funeral service of Emanuel AME pastor, the late Rev. Clementa Pinckney
  • Obama and Biden both acknowledged in their statements last Thursday that they were friends of the reverend and South Carolina state senator
  • He the youngest African American to be elected to his state legislature


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Sisters Margaret Kerry, Mary Thecla and Kathleen Lang of the Order of the Daughters of St. Paul pray outside the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church on Friday. It is the oldest black congregation in America south of Baltimore


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[h=1]Hillary Clinton set for 'community meeting' about Charleston murders – in church near Ferguson, Missouri[/h]
  • Christ the King United Church of Christ in Florissant, Missouri will host the Democratic front-runner on Tuesday in a 'conversation' about last week's mass murder of nine blacks in a South Carolina church
  • Florissant is adjacent to Ferguson, the flashpoint for 2014 race riots sparked after the police shooting of a black man following a strongarm robbery
  • Clinton's campaign added the town meeting-style event on Monday; she already had a fundraiser scheduled in the St. Louis metro area





PUBLISHED: 20:16, 22 June 2015 | UPDATED: 21:18, 22 June 2015





Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton will speak at a 'community meeting' on Tuesday in Missouri about last week's race-motivated mass shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, her campaign said Monday.
The event will take place at a church in Florrisant, Missouri, a St. Louis suburb adjacent to Ferguson – the town that erupted in race riots in August after a white police officer shot dead a young black man following his participation in a strongarm robbery.
Clinton will be in St. Louis for a closed fundraiser. The speech was added to her schedule Monday afternoon.
Pastor Traci Blackmon will host the meeting at Christ the King United Church of Christ in Florissant, near the flashpoint of the 2014 Ferguson violence.






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LET US PRAY: On the heels of the Charleston mass-murderd, Hillary Clinton will speak to members of a black community at a church near the flashpoint of the 2014 Ferguson race riots



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This is a promo for an HBO documentary I just watched. It's riveting. And yep, it's one of those videos that makes my LEFT brain say, "Damn, we gotta do SOMETHING!" But what can we do when enacting laws intended to make it harder to get a gun does not actually make it harder to get a gun?
 

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This is a promo for an HBO documentary I just watched. It's riveting. And yep, it's one of those videos that makes my LEFT brain say, "Damn, we gotta do SOMETHING!" But what can we do when enacting laws intended to make it harder to get a gun does not actually make it harder to get a gun?

Excellent observation and good way of noting that the left brain response is so clearly ineffective here.

"Surely there is something We can do!!"

Yes there is. We can each make a commitment to never using a gun for anything other than pure self defense.

Seems so unsatisfying, but it is literally the only thing We can do on this topic.

All efforts to try and control the free will of others are doomed to failure
 

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and then there's this guy . .


Univision Exec compares Donald Trump to Dylann Roof on Instagram. @AlbertoCiurana should be fired immediately.



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... he got 263 likes??
 

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Imagine if this guy was a Muslim??? There would already be an additional 10 pages of Racist Muslim Hate in the sickos thread.

Actually, take note of the number of posts you made in this thread and compare it to what happened in Dallas.

You posted here obsessively, yet aren't posting stories about the motive of the black man who killed the police officers. Gee, I wonder why?

:):)
 

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Dylann Storm Roof: Charleston Shooter Hated Trayvon Martin, Wanted To Start A Race War.

Why aren't you posting articles about the hatred the Dallas shooter had?

Why didn't you say that Roof acted alone and was "unaffiliated"?

:):)


Thankfully Trends, we were both wrong, it was a single unaffiliated sick gun nut. I was praying we'd be wrong. The last thing we needed was another Radical Extremist group planning, and/or taking credit for Murders of more Americans, adding further division and hatred.

^ Dallas shooting 'Unaffiliated'

Roof was certainly unaffiliated. This rat is such a hypocrite it is unreal.
 

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Guesser should be waterboarded so we can get out all of the information he thinks he has in him.
 

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So a black shoots up a church in Nashville today. What flags are we going to ban? Black power flags? KFC's?
 

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