NEW AGE BETS TAUGHT ME A LESSON THE HARD WAY

[vinividivinci]

The honor amongst books and clients is amazing to me. This business is not, in my opinion, akin to molecular biology (not that I know exactly what that is). The book puts up a number: At that point you take the points or you lay the points or you pass on the wager.

I have had clients ,upon occasion, question the accuracy of a particular line. Once the contract is consumated, however, the deal is done.

Take, lay or pass.

VVV

 

[neilm]

At what point does a bookie have to actually take some responsibility for the numbers he hangs?

 

[Voodoo]

You are definitely taking a shot at the book and
please don't deny it. My guess is you are pissed
because you bought the UNDER somewhere else and now you're out a unit because they cancelled the bad line bet that would have balanced you out.

Lesson #1: If you're going to take a shot by betting a bad line, DON'T BUY IT BACK. You'll be left hanging when they cancel the bad bet.

Not quoting the line makes me think it was off by quite a bit. So much so that you're embarrased to cite it. In a case like that, just call the line in and you MAY get compensated. All books like to say they'll take care of you if you call mistakes in but the truth is only some will. I'm batting less then .500 calling in bad lines. Many times they just say thanks and hang up.

Lesson #2: Don't be so naive and think that no other players will notice the bad line. Others will and they'll take shots too. Better to be the first to call it in and maybe get something.

Going to the various forums and complaining about it does no good. Many bookmakers will read it and they'll know you're a problem. Experienced players will not side with you either as they
can read between the lines as well.

Lesson #3: When you get screwed right back by someone you were trying to screw don't complain. They beat you at your own game so live with it.

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

"The big item that is troubling is that his bet was in a "Hold" status until the second half."

No Davey the big item that's troubling is creditable folks such as yourself were never taugh the difference between right and wrong, then deluded bettors like Flippy post, "I just thought a total off ten points was a different number"

Lay off the drugs, you're a thief and a cheat. The fact that SSB finds this behaivor anything other then despicable shows just what sort bottom feeders created and inhabit the place. why not ask Owen, how many outs he has left??? Then consider telling the dolt chasers your site attracts that book share information and as such Flippie is now officially a crook.

 

Read the post, (or better still print it, and save it) by Voodoo, don´t take shots, it´s not worth the agrevation. Like you said, you won the bet going over the correct number. Good Luck.



Wil.

 

[Flipper]

Yes my lesson was learned about placing a wager offshore with a line of a ten point difference. I wont waste my time taking another shot. But for the record, I did not try to middle it because I liked the over to begin with. There is no value in my opinion to play it the other way unless I could have found a number like 67. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But seriously to the poster that called me an official crook, I hope you know I strongly believe in karma, and lets just say when you get yours, keep in mind I will be smiling from ear to ear if I knew you were getting your due. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I will not be commenting anymore regarding this issue. I am over it.

Lesson has been learned.

By the way if you bet a number here in Vegas with a book, that is a live ticket ALWAYS unless the game ends with more than 5 minutes left.

 

A bet is a contract, an offer followed by an acceptance. In contract law, the INTENT of the parties is KEY. If it is apparent that they did not intend to offer you that line, then they should not be held to the contract. (implicit covenant of good faith permeates all contractual dealings)

That is USA contract law (at common law).

GL, kid..

 

Sounds like a shoddy operation ...

they don't even answer their phone!

 

[DavidMatthews]

In response I would like to say a few things:

Voodoo is also a friend of mine and someone whose opinion about offshore books I value more than anyone's in the world. He also has tons more experience and knowledge than I do about offshore betting. I am willing to admit that I can be wrong, learn, and stand corrected.

Flipper also admits that he is over this situation and I am glad that this was discussed so that Flipper and I could gain from this discussion.

As for "Owen," I vaguely recall seeing that handle somewhere. Our website preserves posts forever, like this one does, and I searched for Owen posts on our site but could not find any. I did find many posts by Owen on this website, but I'm not sure why he is mentioned in the same breath with us.

As for "integrity," I believe that our website conducts itself in a manner of very high integrity. Picks are monitored and must be made against widely available lines. We refund people's money if they are not satisfied. We strive to provide content that is free from bogus systems or false claims. We make no apologies on losses, but don't hype wins either. We try to tell it like it is. If anyone has any feedback for us of how we can bring more integrity to the way we conduct business, PLEASE let me know.

If you have an issue with me personally, I can live with that. I am not perfect. I make mistakes, and hell, I am sure I can be an ass sometimes. No sweat.

As for books sharing information about customers to others if they do not like that customer's business, I clearly stated in my previous post that would be fair, just as customers should share information about unreliable books with one another.

I never said I supported placing bets against mistakes. I feel that I am being misrepresented. I said:

1) I am not sure that I agree with books denying players bets if they are made into erroneous lines, but I can live with it if they are open about their policy and are fair in implementing it.

2) I believe that books that make mistakes more frequently should be considered less reliable than books that make mistakes less frequently.

I believe you are putting words in my mouth and throwing around insults and exclamations to "support" your point.

I am willing to listen to Voodoo on this and accept that I may need to reevaluate my position. Having said that, I do not believe you are fairly representing my position because I did not say the things you accuse me of. Also, Voodoo has been with my websites for years and participates frequently. Would you lump him in with our "bottom-feader" group?

Here is a link to the same thread about Flipper on our website. I do not see an overwhelming amount of support for his position there either.

Flipper post on SSB

So you say "bottom feaders" and "liers" and "get off the drugs" and yet I doubt you really know the activity or contributors we have on the site. In fact, I know that you do not because that is not what our site is all about. Having said that, if you get a room full of 500 people, you're bound to have a few assholes. If you have a room full of 5,000 people, you're bound to have about 10 times as many assholes. That's life.

Thanks for your feedback. I certainly appreciate constructive criticism.

David Matthews

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

First off DM, half that post was directed towards Flippie, esp. the part that he did not know it was a bad number, that is what the drug reference was for.

Second, I am extremely aware of your clientele as I posted there frequently and was popular enough to have your clients chase me around the net and furthermore one even offered me an opportunity to run his site, till I realized just how full of chasers and the opinonless your site catered too. Voodoo and guys like Dunbar are the exception.


Lastly, you clearly did not admonish the behavior, you seem to choose the silence is consent route. Books are partners to winners, only a real buffoon would seek to screw their partner.

 

[krackman]

"Yes my lesson was learned about placing a wager offshore with a line of a ten point difference. I wont waste my time taking another shot"

SO THIS GUY ADMITS HE IS A "SHOT TAKER" LMAO... WHO CAN POSSIBLY BE ON HIS SIDE??

This is just what the offshore industry needs another shot taker.

 

[lurkerforages]

WOW, why do I get the feeling that all the people
laying into Flipper are either Bookies, work for bookies or have some vested interest in making money from bookies.

Sounds like the book was also "taking a shot" by not canceling till after half time!

Lets see??????

What hurts the offshore industry the most?


Players betting at bad numbers that incompetent books hang or books taking shots at players by waiting until after the result is known to cancel a bet?

Even when you bet a bad line there is no 100% sure thing that you will win YET when books cancel they are betting a sure thing.

I know a lot of "players" out there are being put off from betting offshore everyday when they read its OK to cancel bets if the line is off.

Where does it stop?

Bad line rules, wise guy rules, we don`t like you
if you win rules.

If the book had any honor they would eat the wager and learn from "THEIR MISTAKE"

If some books were to stand up and say "WE STAND BEHIND OUR BETS" they would recieve a lot more business.

Any player who line shops or vig shops is "taking a shot" thats what sportswagering is!

 

[Owen]

Why Sodium is taking shots at me ..I have no clue. I don't even know who the fu*k you are. Get your tounge off my nuts.

I loved dave matthwes post about a policy change on how to handle bad lines. I've said it time and time again that a bad line should be clearly defined by a certain number of points or cents off a basis book like the dust. I can not agree that a book should honor all bad lines...reason being is that if someone bet a dog for +200 and the bad line was +20000...The book won't be in business (to pay me /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) if they honored it. We all agree that the book should notify the player if the bet was cancelled due to a bad line. HOWEVER, once the game goes off the bet MUST STAND regardless of how erroneous the mistake was. I disagree with betting a line 10 points off and I wouldn't do it. A good friend of mine HAS done it in the past only to face problems and lose face with the shop. On the other hand, I would bet a college total 4 points off ALL FUC*KIN DAY LONG..

The fact is the guy took a shot and got his bet cancelled. BUT THE BET SHOULD STAND since the game was cancelled at half time where it was clear the game was going over. I for one have had problems with NAB in the past. However, it would be unfair to automatically conclude that NAB waited till the half to see the score and decide then whether or not to cancel the wager. What if the score was 7-0 at the half ..would NAB cancel the bet????? I for one honestly don't know....BUT THERE IN ESSENCE LIES A GOLDEN RULE IN SPORTS WAGERING- THERE SHOULD BE NO WHAT IFS ONCE THE GAME STARTS. This to me is what seperates the sh*t from the pack. I CAN HONESTLY STATE THAT NEITHER THE GREEK, NOR CASCADE, NOR ALLWORLD, NOR WSEX, NOR ANY SOLID SHOP YOU GUYS KNOW THAT WOULD EVER...EVER!!!! CANCEL A BET ONCE THE GAME STARTS. CASCADE EVEN TAKES IT A STEP FURTHER AND HONORS ALL READBACKS NO MATTER HOW OFF THE LINE IS..WHY?? Cuz they take the precautions necessary (like low internet limits, clerks yelling out big plays to the stage etc..) to protect themselves.



That -105 24/7 at NAB is so nice that I would love to come back. But when it comes down to it, CANCELLING A WINNING WAGER IS IN ESSENCE NOT PAYING, and am glad that Bill at NAB wouldn't take me back.

In closing, some may argue that flipper deserves everything he got since he took a shot. That's complete bullsh*t. You must look at the situation objectively. Next thing some of you books would say is that "his crime is so bad that if he won the game , he'd have no action and if he lost - it would stand." Thats what I feel NAB brand of justice was and it is sad to see a shop resort to these tactics. Its even more sad to see some people on this post support a book cancelling bets at halftime.

 

[lurkerforages]

Exactly what next?

"If you win we void any bets, if you lose they stand!"

What kind of "trust" can the offshore industry build with this kind of BS.

The funny thing is you scare off the squares more than you do the sharps.

Exactly what you DON`T want to do.

 

[dculh]

David Matthews is correct. If a game starts then the line must be honored. There is no excuse for an error. Before a website posts their numbers they should be checked by a manager. I have called my book numerous times about line mistakes. This is what generally happens. I'll talk with a person who cannot understand the error. About five minutes later I'll talk with a manager. They let me know that they will check the line and if they correct it I will receive free $25 parlay. Hours later the line is corrected and of course I don't have a Bonus Play in my account. After another 20-30 minutes on the phone I finally receive my Bonus Play. Very frustrating. There are two types of line errors. The first is the obvious, example is Texas -20 against Philly. This mistake would be corrected before the game started and of course all bets would be cancelled. But there are small mistakes suck as a money line being -150 instead of -250. If the game starts and the error has nt been corrected then the book must honor the bet. Otherwise a book could continue to post incorrect lines and only cancel the bets that the player wins and keep the losing bets. After reading this board for the last couple of months I definately believe numerous book managers and owners post here. It seems numerous posters believe the book is correct in not honoring bets after the game started. Unbelievable.

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

The chorus of thieves has finally arrived.

Owen still making a living betting bad lines?

huh, thief???? Still spend every waking minute staring blankly at the feed looking for funny numbers?

if you weren't such a degenerate loser noone would take your action.

a bunch of thieves, every minute a book prolongs your agony of not knowing whether you have action is a moment when the good folk in the world should stand up and cheer.

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

"Players betting at bad numbers that incompetent books hang or books taking shots at players by waiting until after the result is known to cancel a bet?"

Umm you should stay a lurker for ages, duhhh, can one take place without the other? which is worse? Is that the stupid phucking question you just dribbled out? How about your book just posted a thousand to one on an even money shot, I won they owe me 10 million, now what genius???

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

"Why Sodium is taking shots at me ..I have no clue. I don't even know who the fu*k you are. Get your tounge off my nuts."


i know who the fu*k you are, a generic scumbag, never taught the difference between right and wrong, am certain you'd steal from the church plate if unattended, as far as your nuts, you have none, that's why you spend all phucking day looking for funny numbers. Your nuts left the last time your BR did, scumbag

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

"David Matthews is correct. If a game starts then the line must be honored."

According to what or whom? You??? Dave Matthews???

Grow the phuck up you wanna take shot's at bad numbers, then get out of jail for free?

Only losers take shots, period, end of story.

Winners know the books are too important a source of revenue to risk it.

 

[Sodium Pantethol III]

"I disagree with betting a line 10 points off and I wouldn't do it. A good friend of mine HAS done it in the past only to face problems and lose face with the shop"

STOP F*CKING LYING SCUMBAG!!!! NEED i REPOST EVERYONE OF YOUR MISDEEDS, EVEN WHERE YOU DENY KNOWING A 10PT BAD LINE WAS REALLY A BAD LINE, HOW CAN YOU FACE YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR, YOU'RE A PATHETIC LYING SCUMBAG