My Contract with America By Rudy Giuliani

[cincy_]

He didn't CLEAN UP New York ... he just swept everything to the Bronx.

It's not like Rudy took all the derelicts and enrolled them in Sunday school.

Yes, Manhattan is cleaner, and Midtown is safer ... but does anyone ask about the Bronx??? For example, patients' relatives have to make hospital beds in south Bronx and police don't respond to 9-11 calls immediately unless there is a murder.

You can sweep things away when you're Mayor of a city and you can send them across the river ... a little tougher to do when you're President of the US ...

 

[Willie99]

He didn't CLEAN UP New York ... he just swept everything to the Bronx.

It's not like Rudy took all the derelicts and enrolled them in Sunday school.

Yes, Manhattan is cleaner, and Midtown is safer ... but does anyone ask about the Bronx??? For example, patients' relatives have to make hospital beds in south Bronx and police don't respond to 9-11 calls immediately unless there is a murder.

You can sweep things away when you're Mayor of a city and you can send them across the river ... a little tougher to do when you're President of the US ...

Cincy, you from Boston or something? The Bronx is part of NYC.

Manhattan is cleaner and safer, as is the city as a whole. He didn't implement one set of laws for Manhattan and other laws for the other burroughs.

And, I like visiting the Bronx Zoo, the other Bronx Zoo and Aurthur Avenue.
But I love Manhattan.

PS: Boston is pretty cool too in a petite sort of way.

 

[barman]

BB speculates: I assume you speak of the searches the NYPD performed in the subway system in the days following 911.

SH: You assume incorrectly.

I refer to the thousands of illegal searches conducted weekly against NYC residents from 1994-2002 that had no probable cause for legal procession by the NYPD.

It was made common practice for NYPD to roll up on individuals or groups of citizens and force them all up against the wall for a search of their persons.

NYC averaged over 100,000 arrests annually for simple drug possession during Guiliani's term and the vast majority had their foundation in an illegal search of a private citizen.

These illegal arrests jammed up the criminal court system, the city jail system and the state prison system - at a cost to taxpayers of over $1Billion during Giuliani's terms.


Fiscal and civil liberties conservatives who respect the US Constitution should be aghast at such a violation of basic civil rights, but hey look, there's a trash can on every corner of Manhattan!

 

[Willie99]

as a matter of fact, the crime rate in NYC came down so much under Rudy that the crime rate in the entire country was reduced.

This led Bubba to boast that his 100,000 new police officers was reducing the nationwide crime rate.

Of course, we never even came anywhere near 100,000 new police officers and the crime rates throughout the country, except for NYC, remained constant.

and that's "the rest of the story".

 

[bblight]

BB speculates: I assume you speak of the searches the NYPD performed in the subway system in the days following 911.

SH: You assume incorrectly.

I refer to the thousands of illegal searches conducted weekly against NYC residents from 1994-2002 that had no probable cause for legal procession by the NYPD.

It was made common practice for NYPD to roll up on individuals or groups of citizens and force them all up against the wall for a search of their persons.

NYC averaged over 100,000 arrests annually for simple drug possession during Guiliani's term and the vast majority had their foundation in an illegal search of a private citizen.

These illegal arrests jammed up the criminal court system, the city jail system and the state prison system - at a cost to taxpayers of over $1Billion during Giuliani's terms.


Fiscal and civil liberties conservatives who respect the US Constitution should be aghast at such a violation of basic civil rights, but hey look, there's a trash can on every corner of Manhattan!

The easy answer is don't do drugs and you won't get arrested.

By the way, here's a headline about the searches:

"New Yorkers Favor Subway Bag Searches 3-1"
A Quinnipiac University poll found New Yorkers favor random searches of packages and backpacks carried by people entering city subways, 72 percent to 25 percent.
According to the Associated Press, while support for the searches was solid among blacks, whites and Hispanics, most of those polled, 55 percent to 38 percent, said government security measures should not violate basic civil rights. The poll did find a divergence of opinion between Democrats and Republicans:

The 255 who considered themselves Republicans were an exception, with 60 percent of them agreeing that the government should take "all steps necessary to prevent additional acts of terrorism in the United States even if it means your basic civil liberties would be violated."
The 854 who consider themselves Democrats were 62 percent to 32 percent against that proposition. Independents also rejected violations of civil liberties, 54-39 percent.
​

The poll of 1,601 registered voters in New York City was conducted August 9 - 15 and has a margin of error of 2.5 percent for the overall poll, 3.5 percent for the Democratic segment and 6 percent for the Republican segment.

 

[barman]

If the subway searches were such a good idea, why aren't they still being aggressively conducted?

Meanwhile, that's not the searches to which I referred.

BB offers this bromide: The easy answer is don't do drugs and you won't get arrested.

SH: Even easier for most of the United States of America - Don't do illegal searches which are clear violations of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

[cincy_]

Cincy, you from Boston or something? The Bronx is part of NYC.

That is my point.

He did not clean up NYC ... he simply bussed people to the Bronx. Overall, the crime rate in NYC went down, but the crime rate in the Bronx went UP ... but the influential people were happy because Manhattan had been cleaned up ... and like I said, once you chase away dealers and hookers and pimps, they do NOT go to Sunday school.

Read these (some are from Rudy's supporters)

“It’s easy to see why Rudy Giuliani is the most popular mayor in modern New York history. Not only has Rudy cleaned the streets, he’s cleaned them up…taken the pimps and pushers off the streets and made them safe again…and chased the homeless and the squeegee kids away.”
​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Many of the poor and homeless, meanwhile, were simply shunted off to the outer boroughs, or to distant “edge” cities.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He leaves behind a city that is cumulatively better off than when he took power—but it is hard to say just what that means. A city is not simply a statistical entity, but an aggregation of individuals, of all sorts of people—and many of the poorest and most helpless people in New York when Rudy took over were either pushed out or ruthlessly driven further down the economic ladder."[/FONT]
​

"There is no question that Giuliani has a vision for New York. And though it's complicated, it can pretty much be summed up in one word: Singapore."

​

and last but not least, here is DICTATOR ADOLF GIULIANNI himself speaking in 1998:

"Freedom is the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."

 

[Willie99]

The Bronx is one of New York City's 5 boroughs.

Manhattan
Bronx
Queens
Brooklyn
Staten Island


If crime were to move from Manhattan to the Bronx, the crime rate of New York City would not go down, it would remain constant.

The crime rate of the city dropped significantly during Rudy's two terms, and there is no way to spin this.

Now if the criminals moved to other cities, and I suppose there is some truth to that, they don't like being cracked down on, what can the Mayor of New York City do about that?

 

[cincy_]

The Bronx is one of New York City's 5 boroughs.

Manhattan
Bronx
Queens
Brooklyn
Staten Island


Now if the criminals moved to other cities, and I suppose there is some truth to that, they don't like being cracked down on, what can the Mayor of New York City do about that?

Thanks for the information on the 5 boroughs ... it was enlightening. I thought Connecticut and Albany were boroughs too, but now I know better.

As for what the mayor of NYC can do, I said in my initial post:

You can sweep things away when you're Mayor of a city and you can send them across the river ... a little tougher to do when you're President of the US ...
​

 

[cincy_]

If crime were to move from Manhattan to the Bronx, the crime rate of New York City would not go down, it would remain constant.

A crime that is NOT reported is NOT a crime.

Let's not get into a big debate, but 75% of the "crimes" that are reported in Manhattan probably don't get reported in The Bronx.

Let the assholes fuck each other ... that was the theory, and while I support it and agree with it, all I am saying is that his approach of SWEEPING AWAY (and ignoring and ridiculing) problems won't work at the national level.

 

[Willie99]

Thanks for the information on the 5 boroughs ... it was enlightening. I thought Connecticut and Albany were boroughs too, but now I know better.

As for what the mayor of NYC can do, I said in my initial post:

You can sweep things away when you're Mayor of a city and you can send them across the river ... a little tougher to do when you're President of the US ...
​

Cincy, you said he reduced the crime rate of NYC by sending the crime to the Bronx more then one time. That would mean he is shifting the crime within his own city and would yield a very different result with regards to his "war on crime".

If he cracks down on crime in NYC, thus forcing criminals to leave NYC, what is the mayor of NYC supposed to do about the fact that criminals are moving from his city? He did his job, now it's up to other local law enforcement agencies to do their's.

Much of the crime he cleaned up was street crime. Hookers walking Times Sq, sex shows, cleaning up graffiti, street thugs and even window washers. The people of NYC LOVED him for these changes and reelected him by a wide margin.

 

[Willie99]

A crime that is NOT reported is NOT a crime.

Let's not get into a big debate, but 75% of the "crimes" that are reported in Manhattan probably don't get reported in The Bronx.

Let the assholes fuck each other ... that was the theory, and while I support it and agree with it, all I am saying is that his approach of SWEEPING AWAY (and ignoring and ridiculing) problems won't work at the national level.

We've both had our say.

Are you a father? Even if you're not, have a great day.

Peace

 

[bblight]

If the subway searches were such a good idea, why aren't they still being aggressively conducted?

Meanwhile, that's not the searches to which I referred.

BB offers this bromide: The easy answer is don't do drugs and you won't get arrested.

SH: Even easier for most of the United States of America - Don't do illegal searches which are clear violations of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Even easier for most of the United States of America - Don't do illegal searches which are .

You say that subway searches are "clear violations of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution", but that's merely your opinion - the ACLU agreed with you and took NYC to court - and lost! The jurists did not see the NYC program as illegal.

I again offer this bromide: Don't do drugs and you won't have to worry - meanwhile, you know that the cops are on the job protecting you and yours.

You can look at this however you want - you can act like a moonbat and bitch, whine and cry about this all that you want - a liberally biased 2nd circuit says that you're wrong.

 

[docslep]

i lived in manhattan for years. you couldn't stop at a red light without a homeless person banging on your window for a handout, or "washing" your window for a handout. they would end up dirtying your window more, so i had to put on my wipers to prevent it. if you didn't "pay" them to leave you alone, they'd chase you or try to scratch the car. it was like the homeless wild west. last thing you could do was to antaganize them, they'd light onto you like a pack of lions.

since rudy, you can be in manhattan without getting tortured by derelicts. this was a great accomplishment. for years, other mayors looked the other way.

 

[roscoesdad27]

i lived in manhattan for years. you couldn't stop at a red light without a homeless person banging on your window for a handout, or "washing" your window for a handout. they would end up dirtying your window more, so i had to put on my wipers to prevent it. if you didn't "pay" them to leave you alone, they'd chase you or try to scratch the car. it was like the homeless wild west. last thing you could do was to antaganize them, they'd light onto you like a pack of lions.

since rudy, you can be in manhattan without getting tortured by derelicts. this was a great accomplishment. for years, other mayors looked the other way.

FUCK RUDY!...I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THAT GUILY LIZARD HANGIN FROM A TREE LIKE THE TRAITOR THAT HE IS!...FUCK RUDY AND ANYBODY THAT SUPPORTS RUDY!

 

[docslep]

FUCK RUDY!...I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THAT GUILY LIZARD HANGIN FROM A TREE LIKE THE TRAITOR THAT HE IS!...FUCK RUDY AND ANYBODY THAT SUPPORTS RUDY!

good retort. i'll rethink my postion.:monsters-

 

[bblight]

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Join Date: May 2005
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by roscoesdad27
FUCK RUDY!...I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THAT GUILY LIZARD HANGIN FROM A TREE LIKE THE TRAITOR THAT HE IS!...FUCK RUDY AND ANYBODY THAT SUPPORTS RUDY!
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good retort. i'll rethink my postion.:monsters-
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

:missingte :missingte

 

[cincy_]

If he cracks down on crime in NYC, thus forcing criminals to leave NYC, what is the mayor of NYC supposed to do about the fact that criminals are moving from his city? He did his job, now it's up to other local law enforcement agencies to do their's.

True ... I agree with you on this ... and I like RG for what he did ... I am just trying to dispel the notion that he "cleaned up" crime ... he really didn't. He did what we did in school ... if there was a cigarette butt on the floor near my bed, I just kicked it under my roommates bed. (Note for the Gen X crowd: YES, WE USED TO SMOKE IN OUR DORM ROOMS)

Happy Fathers Day to you too.

 

[barman]

BB remains puzzled: You say that subway searches are "clear violations of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution",

SH: I've not made a single declaration about the subway searches.

My references are to random, unwarranted searches of individuals on the streets of NYC during Guiliani's eight years.

Over 100,000 arrests annually (over 750,000 in eight years) with nearly all being from illegal searches.

Over $1Billion in local and state taxpayer dollars burned on criminal court cases founded in illegal searches.

Fiscal conservatives wince at such government irresponsibility.

Civil liberties backers wince at the assault on the US Constitution.

----------
BB, your attitude is not unique, as demonstrated by the link that you yourself provided on Page 1.

Over 60% of Republicans backed subway searches even if they resulted in a direct loss of established civil liberties.

Many New Yorkers endorse the policy of thousands of illegal personal searches on the streets of NYC even if it is a direct violation of the US Constitution.

Your disrespect for the 4th Amendment (via support of illegal personal searches on the streets of NYC) is duly noted.

The rueful part is that you yourself would never consent to an illegal and unwarranted search of your private person and property. And for that I say, Bravo. Too bad you won't extend the same courtesy to the rest of Americans.

 

[roscoesdad27]

good retort. i'll rethink my postion.:monsters-

well good for you.....FUCK RUDY!