Libs: 51% is not a mandate

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Can't we ALL just get along?!!
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Kaya you and I could probably argue about this forever since we both believe in our respective parties. I will say for Reagan at least he handled the position with dignity and class. Clinton made us the running joke of the world for 8 years. It was never safer for Al Qaeda and the terrorists around the world than when Hillary was in office (oh did I say Hillary?). :kicking:

sb
 

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Sportsbet,

Just to clear up two points, I don't support the democratic party all that much. I am however very anti-republican primarily because of unethical economic policy and the manipulation of the poor to their advantage.

Secondly, I was living abroad during Clinton's time in office. We were much more respected when he was in office, he was considered a diplomat while bush is considered a lose cannon. For example Clinton came to Costa Rica and in all honesty I can't remember hearing any anti-American sentiment around or during his visit (although I'm sure there must have been some). At present I hear an anti-American or anti-bush comment on almost a daily basis. Another example is a latino commentator's remarks as these recent election results were coming in, he put it like this; as a result of the fear that resides since 911 the American public has made a decission that will be bad for their country, bad for Latin America and bad for the world. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, just pointing out how we're being looked at. Finally, the joke they were laughing at, which by the way most of the American public just doesn't get, was not Clinton but the people. Abroad they just couldn't believe the public and press were making such a big deal about sex, they were laughing at us for be uptight puritans, not laughing at Clinton.
 

bushman
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I will say for Reagan at least he handled the position with dignity and class. Clinton made us the running joke of the world for 8 years.
Ronny Raygun was (up to Bush2) all that was worst about US right wing politics. Iran/Contra, Grenada, and the Savings and Loan scandals were just symptoms of an administration that was rotten to the core.

The problem with the Clinton administration was that it showed the International community that when America gets a real brain, it raises standards and expectations throughout the international community and the entire world.

Once Bush2 got in, and standards dropped back to the old pre-Clinton crap and nonsense, the international community no longer followed along.

Thus you find yourselves on your own in Iraq and sucking on your own búllshít
 
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Kayaman:

Well said ... I cant think of a time in my lifetime when an American President has been less respected around the world than what we have with the Cowboy in the White House right now ...

Clinton was up on Bush in 2 areas: 1) He could spell diplomacy 2) he knew how to use diplomacy

Bush's "Bring It On" act dont cut it with most civilized folks
 

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Good point Eek that comment about Ronnie's "dignity and class" immediately brought the corruptness of the Reagan administration to my mind too.
 

bushman
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The BJ! OMG he had a BJ! :coffeetim


they were laughing at us for be uptight puritans, not laughing at Clinton.<!-- / message -->
Spot on.
 

Can't we ALL just get along?!!
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You guys are hilarious. :coffeetim


PLEASE don't tell me you want to debate about scandals when comparing the Clinton administration to ANY OTHER Presidency in the history of our great nation. I would begin to list things that happened during Hillary's reign of terror but I'm worried about being "silenced" like other certain officials that got on the wrong side of the Clintons.

sb
 

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Stop by again sometime sport, that's some funny stuff your spewing. Time for a new roll of Reynolds wrap your lids gettin' a little loose.
 

Can't we ALL just get along?!!
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Kaya I heard some of that myself about the Europeans joking about us being so weird about the scandal. The sex is a big deal but the crux of the matter is the guy is the leader of our nation and a married man (with a daughter) and had sex outside his marraige and then lied to everyone about it (repeatedly). I may be old fashioned but sex outside of marraige (bj or whatever..oral sex is still SEX) is about as wrong as you can get. McGreevy is getting kicked out of office for the same thing (ok with another man but still) and Jersey can't get him out fast enough (even though he seemed to do a lot for NJ while in office).

I was not proud of the things that happened during Slick Willy's terms but I will give him credit for staying in office as long as he did. He was a good salesman but to me a poor leader.

Jinn thought you'd enjoy my point of view. :coffeetim


sb
 

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"This war will end tyranny and make the world a safer place to live..."

Good luck on this one cuz there's decades of war to be fought on this one and it would appear as though the USA will be doing all the heavy lifting and all the heavy spending from now on, since losing the support of the international community......

Might wanna tell the boys on the front to fill out a change of address kit,and give up thier real jobs back home, cuz it's going to be quite some time before they get back home, given that this will be a fulltime occupation from here on out, with more stops in Iraq to come and then gas up the war machine for a prolonged stint in Iran....and then get sideways with whatever country after that that has less than a democracy......
 
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I love that comment: "This war will end tyranny and make the world a safer place to live..."

Lets see ... N Korea is about as brutal regime as it gets and owns Nukes that can hit the USA ... Syria controls S Lebanon and the Hezbollah guerillas have 10,000 rockets - many with VX gas - that can reach Tel Aviv / and their capital of Damascus is home to a dozen international terrorist organizations ... Bush is pushing this wonderful idea of forcing Israel to give up land so the Palestinians can set up shot -- and yet the PLO charter is driven by the idea of complete destruction of the Israeli state ... Pakistan is on the verge of a Civil War and owns nukes ... India right next door is constantly on the edge of possible war with Pakistan and also owns nukes ... Russia has invested 40 billion into the Iranian nuke reactor projects which Israel will soon be attacking with F16's to try and take out and Russia has a defv pact they signed in 91 with Iran ...

Someone had better get a better grip that 2005 could see the breakout of full scale war in the Middle East with the buildup of events underway ...
 

Can't we ALL just get along?!!
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I don't want to see our forces spread too thin and leave us depleted anywhere in the world so I believe the way the GOP is running this war is right and just.

We're aware of the other countries doc (as you are by your post). Iraq is an example to these other nations that if you're going to threaten the safety of the United States of America (and the rest of the world) you're in for a fight. If you harbor terrorists we will find you. If you support the threat you will be held accountable. And this is a fight we don't back down from. So India, North Korea, Syria, Pakistan, India and Russia take notice! The United States of America and its allies will be watching you. :howdy:

sb
 

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kaya man said:
Sportsbet,
At present I hear an anti-American or anti-bush comment on almost a daily basis. Another example is a latino commentator's remarks as these recent election results were coming in, he put it like this; as a result of the fear that resides since 911 the American public has made a decission that will be bad for their country, bad for Latin America and bad for the world.
I wonder if that rectum latino commentator had anything negative to say about the money the U.S. is pumping into his pissant country Costa Rica. I'd like to spit in his face.

Kaya, so NOW you're saying that there IS strong anti-American sentiment in CR. I've been saying that for two years and you and the offshore forum Tico super-clerks have been saying that I'm full of BS and that everybody's just "pura vida" down there.
 

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kaya man said:
Sportsbet,
Finally, the joke they were laughing at, which by the way most of the American public just doesn't get, was not Clinton but the people. Abroad they just couldn't believe the public and press were making such a big deal about sex, they were laughing at us for be uptight puritans, not laughing at Clinton.
The problem with Clinton's "big deal about sex" was that he was a married man, not to mention the President of the United States. The fact that a simple, base culture like the Costa Ricans don't see a problem with it reflects on their acceptance of infidelity in marriage and their moral bankruptcy. Most Ticos would screw a woodpile if they thought there was a snake it in, so let them laugh their dreary lives away at us "uptight puritan" Americans if it makes them feel better about themselves.
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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I think that a lot of the problems here are value based; some of us share "American Virtue" values, while many share "Euopean" values.

Since values define the culture, I won't knock European values other than to say that I don't particularly care for their moral and ethical foundations.

Please note that many of the most virulent anti-Bush posters on this forum are from cultures with European values (Canada and the UK) or they spent some or all of their formative years in a country where the culture was based oin European values; or they hate Bush so much, they'll support any other value system (Doc).

Anyway, the way I see it, is that the Republicans have won the values war, and as long as the Democrats continue with their present coalition, the Republicans will continue to win.
 

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Somewhere up above I think I just saw Joe Scarborough listed as a "left wing nut job". You guys really do some good research don't you. Who will be listed as "a left wing nutjob" next. Pat Robertson?
 

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"PLEASE don't tell me you want to debate about scandals when comparing the Clinton administration to ANY OTHER Presidency in the history of our great nation. I would begin to list things that happened during Hillary's reign of terror but I'm worried about being "silenced" like other certain officials that got on the wrong side of the Clintons."

Just a point in fact, Ronnie Ray-gun still holds the record for most corrupt administration in history, more indictments than any another. Besides the fact that just in layman's terms nothing that Slick Willy did compares to using drug money to buy arms from an enemy nation to illegally prolong a brutal civil conflict serveral years all under the noses of the American public.


American,

First of all to clear up a couple of things, I'm not Tico and I'm just a little more than a clerk, lol.
That said, you're focusing way too much on Costa Rica. First of all the commentator I mentioned was on CNN in Spanish not Tico news. When I try to give perspective on the view of things from here I don't mean Costa Rica nearly as much as an outside view. Here we get CNN is Spanish, as I already mentioned, we get CNN international and also remember that Costa Rica is a very international location. Of course there are tons of immigrants in the States as well, but I think it's more concentrated in specific areas there, for example growing up in PA the only foreigner I ever met was a Mexican exchange student in my high school. In CR you meet English, Chinese, Japanese, Lebanese, German, Dutch, Fins, Australian, Polish, Canadian, Latinos of just about every nationality, just to name a few pretty regularily because of tourism, the English/Spanish teahing racket, and sportsbooks. So again when I talk about the perspective from here I mean a broader, more international view point than what you get in rural U.S. of A., not Costa Rica specifically.

Now as far as the anti-American sentiment in Costa Rica, well there's been some of that as long as I've been here and that's a while now. My point is that you heard it much less when Clinton was in office than now. Also in all honesty what you hear at present is directed much more at bush than Americans in general, keep in mind he did started a war that the world disagrees with. As far as everything being pura vida, yeah basically it's still mellow, there is more crime but of course there are economic problems, inflation, more poverty, a growing seperation of classes, etc, the types of things that always cause more crime. Over all it's no worse or better to be an American here now than it was 10-12 years ago.

As far as the Clinton sex scandal, I think it's probably a pointless arguement. You guys look it as cut and dry, married man cheated, that's bad, very bad (reminds me of Dana Carvy doing bush1 on SNL). Yes he cheated on his wife, as most rich powerful men do. Yes he lied about cheating on his wife a natural reaction most men would have. I don't approve of what he did yet I'm not as shocked or appauled by it as you guys because I look at it as the kind of thing that goes on all the time. Kennedy liked to skinny dip with his secretaries in the pool but back then the press didn't have the gall to mess with a presidents personal affairs. When I hit on this point I'm not casting or denying blame, I just think that as American's we shouldn't kid ourselves that Clinton embarrassed us with the Lewinsky scandal, we embarrassed ourselves by over reacting. And by the way American it wasn't just the Ticos laughing.
 

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kaya man said:
American,
Now as far as the anti-American sentiment in Costa Rica, well there's been some of that as long as I've been here and that's a while now. My point is that you heard it much less when Clinton was in office than now. Also in all honesty what you hear at present is directed much more at bush than Americans in general, keep in mind he did started a war that the world disagrees with. As far as everything being pura vida, yeah basically it's still mellow, there is more crime but of course there are economic problems, inflation, more poverty, a growing seperation of classes, etc, the types of things that always cause more crime. Over all it's no worse or better to be an American here now than it was 10-12 years ago.

QUOTE]

I'm glad to see that you didn't turn native down there. Anti-American sentiment rose in CR over the last decade as more and more Americans...bookmakers and "Brothers Investors" in particular...relocated there, flashing money, drinking and snorting everything they could get their hands on, making asses of themselves and generally trying to turn the country into one big fat whorehouse. Americans simply have worn out their welcome there, and I'm not placing the blame for this on Ticos.
 

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Interesting take on the situation. It hasn't really risen much at all, as I say in a political sense they're pissed at bush and the war in Iraq. The only thing that really stirs up anti-Gringo sentiment from time to time are the American scum bags that come here looking for under age prostitutes. But that isn't and doesn't get related to sportsbooks.

Of course the owners and managers of sportsbooks that like the whores and the drugs aren't particularily desirable, but they basically go from the Del Rey to Cariari and nobody much cares. Of course the cabbies they pay and those they pay rent to are very fond of them. However those most offensive in the industry hardly over come the hundreds of locals enjoying better salaries because of sportsbooks, there's a great chain reaction from that, from car sales to private university tuition, to fast food sales, etc. The mayority of Ticos that know about the business know there are more benefits than disadvantages.

Any way don't worry we've hardly worn out our welcome, tourism is back up and as far as day to day life, again, it's no better or worse being an American here now than it was 10 years ago. As a matter of fact if anything better as far as American oriented services and products available.
 

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We both agree on the tremendously positive economic benefits that the sportsbook industry has brought to Costa Rica. However, from time to time, the newspapers down there will run a story, packed with quotes from sportsbook owners bragging about all the cash their bringing in, and people with no other contact with the industry get a distorted image of what's going on. I'm talking about 10's of millions of dollars in a country where people earn $100 or so a week in respectable jobs. There's a lot of resentment and jealousy when people go to a university for 4 or 6 years and get a degree so they can land a job for $600 or $800 a month, while these young college party animal clerks make $800 and up to $2000 a month, or more, just because they speak English fluently. There are even high school kids working in some of these books that are making more than their fathers! That's a big blow to some people's pride (especially the father's).

As far as misconduct by the Americans down there, people are more aware of it than you think. It may seem that no one pays any attention to it, but remember how they love to talk and spread rumors down there. There was a fear-inspired run on the national bank Banco San Jose just recently, solely on the basis of rumors spread by word of mouth. Ticos try to act like they don't know what's going on sometimes, but they hear things.
 

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