When paid touts are tracked by an impartial service they are usually graded against "widely available lines." After all, if you're paying for picks you don't want the tout to say, "well, I got this line yesterday at such and such a place...sorry it's not available anymore."
However, the rx is more informal and people are posting their picks for free. They don't follow "the rules" regarding lines as much, nor should they be expected to. Smartz isn't beholden to anyone because no one is paying for his picks. And he isn't cheating.
I know that cappers who post their picks at Sanford Wong's site must adhere to the widely available lines rule, but they know that coming in.
I think that it's a little unfair of Joeflex to apply the same sort of standard here. People tend to post the best lines they can find--not widely available lines. That's just the commonly accepted way of doing things here.
I think Joeflex should have explained things a bit more rather than come in trying to "expose" people.
However, the rx is more informal and people are posting their picks for free. They don't follow "the rules" regarding lines as much, nor should they be expected to. Smartz isn't beholden to anyone because no one is paying for his picks. And he isn't cheating.
I know that cappers who post their picks at Sanford Wong's site must adhere to the widely available lines rule, but they know that coming in.
I think that it's a little unfair of Joeflex to apply the same sort of standard here. People tend to post the best lines they can find--not widely available lines. That's just the commonly accepted way of doing things here.
I think Joeflex should have explained things a bit more rather than come in trying to "expose" people.
To Puccini:
Maybe I could've explained a little better before getting into it.
As far as Tomorrow's Newspaper, I did not "expose" him, I said what the record meant. I probably said 4 times at least that he was a good capper and that people could make a lot of money following him with shopping. The negative part and alert was that following him this year would hit you somewhere between 52-53% because you are getting Widely Available numbers for someone whose record was non-WA. For those that wanted to jump aboard his picks at Pinny, etc and nail over 54%, I guess that's negative but it was good information and again, he looks to be a good capper. Perhaps an introductory explanation would've been better here but I say he had a lot of value quite a few times. I just don't think TheRX as a whole is ready to see 52.5% as valuable. Starting off the piece with an "I LOVE 53%!" might've changed that whole thread.
As far as Smartz, these are 14-hour old lines that he is reporting. While I agree that on this forum one shouldn't need to post the stringent standards I'm used to (although it would likely be more valuable for everyone here), these are just outrageous by any standard. Even the Betatlas explanation is off because I posted the Donbest line history right there. He claimed a 5 originally. Now we learn it was not a 5, but a 4.5 and bought up to 5. What was available at Betatlas at the time of posting? It was 3.5. Smartz also said he didn't necessarily post right after he made the bet so it coul'dve been 4.5 at any time. I don't really understand why he said he got 4.5 because the line was never at 4.5.
If I had the inclination, I would go back through the record to see if I could find a pick where Smartz dokked himself 2 full point 16 hours later. But, despite all appearances, I don't have time for that and am pretty confident about the answer anyway.
Good point though.....time for the big reveal!
Joeflex
Maybe I could've explained a little better before getting into it.
As far as Tomorrow's Newspaper, I did not "expose" him, I said what the record meant. I probably said 4 times at least that he was a good capper and that people could make a lot of money following him with shopping. The negative part and alert was that following him this year would hit you somewhere between 52-53% because you are getting Widely Available numbers for someone whose record was non-WA. For those that wanted to jump aboard his picks at Pinny, etc and nail over 54%, I guess that's negative but it was good information and again, he looks to be a good capper. Perhaps an introductory explanation would've been better here but I say he had a lot of value quite a few times. I just don't think TheRX as a whole is ready to see 52.5% as valuable. Starting off the piece with an "I LOVE 53%!" might've changed that whole thread.
As far as Smartz, these are 14-hour old lines that he is reporting. While I agree that on this forum one shouldn't need to post the stringent standards I'm used to (although it would likely be more valuable for everyone here), these are just outrageous by any standard. Even the Betatlas explanation is off because I posted the Donbest line history right there. He claimed a 5 originally. Now we learn it was not a 5, but a 4.5 and bought up to 5. What was available at Betatlas at the time of posting? It was 3.5. Smartz also said he didn't necessarily post right after he made the bet so it coul'dve been 4.5 at any time. I don't really understand why he said he got 4.5 because the line was never at 4.5.
If I had the inclination, I would go back through the record to see if I could find a pick where Smartz dokked himself 2 full point 16 hours later. But, despite all appearances, I don't have time for that and am pretty confident about the answer anyway.
Good point though.....time for the big reveal!
Joeflex
I did have the 4.5 and can prove it. i took a screen shot of my comp and pasted it in word. I have no idea how to post it. If you email me I'll attach it to you. Hopefully this will prove your sources arent as accurate as you think and Im not going to keep digging into history to prove more to you if there are. Hopefully this will be my last post ever directed to you.
This is my last post in this thread and I hope the last for many of you. Let this shit die already.
smartz is easily the best bettor i've seen on the internet.. i've never been to vegas so I don't know of any of the powerful syndicates or anything like that but smartz is better than all the cappers at SSB and as an all around capper there isn't anyone close to him.. he dominates baseball, college basketball and the NFL.. It is very rare to see someone be that successful in 3 major sports..
As pucini said, Smartz does not have any obligation to post WA lines. I think the best way to post plays is to just post the number you got and list the sportsbook you bet it at. If you consistently see that person getting good numbers at a particular book, even though the # isn't WA, then it's time that you maybe considered getting an account at that book.. You post a lot at fezziks place I know and even Fezzik said most of the sharps he knew were at SIA getting soft numbers until they got kicked out or limits cut.
As pucini said, Smartz does not have any obligation to post WA lines. I think the best way to post plays is to just post the number you got and list the sportsbook you bet it at. If you consistently see that person getting good numbers at a particular book, even though the # isn't WA, then it's time that you maybe considered getting an account at that book.. You post a lot at fezziks place I know and even Fezzik said most of the sharps he knew were at SIA getting soft numbers until they got kicked out or limits cut.
Simple solution to avoid problems like this: post plays immediately after one makes the wager.
Chances are that if one is in front of a computer placing a wager, he should also be able to take the three seconds it takes to post on the Rx.
This would eliminate most, if not all, controversy.
People should cut JoeFlex a little slack, IMO...what he's doing is for the benefit of all posters/lurkers, not himself.
It is the responsibility of the poster to keep other posters in check. Maybe there was a better way to go about this and the TN thread, but trying to provide the forum with information isn't a bad thing.
If everyone is 100% honest in these situations, they can be dealt with in an efficient, painless manner, can't they?
Chances are that if one is in front of a computer placing a wager, he should also be able to take the three seconds it takes to post on the Rx.
This would eliminate most, if not all, controversy.
People should cut JoeFlex a little slack, IMO...what he's doing is for the benefit of all posters/lurkers, not himself.
It is the responsibility of the poster to keep other posters in check. Maybe there was a better way to go about this and the TN thread, but trying to provide the forum with information isn't a bad thing.
If everyone is 100% honest in these situations, they can be dealt with in an efficient, painless manner, can't they?
Simple solution to avoid problems like this: post plays immediately after one makes the wager.
Chances are that if one is in front of a computer placing a wager, he should also be able to take the three seconds it takes to post on the Rx.
This would eliminate most, if not all, controversy.
People should cut JoeFlex a little slack, IMO...what he's doing is for the benefit of all posters/lurkers, not himself.
It is the responsibility of the poster to keep other posters in check. Maybe there was a better way to go about this and the TN thread, but trying to provide the forum with information isn't a bad thing.
If everyone is 100% honest in these situations, they can be dealt with in an efficient, painless manner, can't they?
Chances are that if one is in front of a computer placing a wager, he should also be able to take the three seconds it takes to post on the Rx.
This would eliminate most, if not all, controversy.
People should cut JoeFlex a little slack, IMO...what he's doing is for the benefit of all posters/lurkers, not himself.
It is the responsibility of the poster to keep other posters in check. Maybe there was a better way to go about this and the TN thread, but trying to provide the forum with information isn't a bad thing.
If everyone is 100% honest in these situations, they can be dealt with in an efficient, painless manner, can't they?
I always made sure a line was available before posting it, even if I got a better price, I posted the best available. In the tracker thread you had to do this. For him to bring up lines from 2004 is BS in my opinion. I couldnt defend those lines if I wanted to, but know it was an available line.
I also know for a fact, if someone was following me and had many outs, they could do better than my posted record. I know, because I did. Using mansion last year I got numbers that were not available anywhere thus increasing my earnings. This "using Widely Available Lines" thing is pure BS. If you gamble seriously you are getting the best number possible on every bet. If I settle for whatever is available I am giving money away. Getting a good line is one of the biggest parts of handicapping
I also know for a fact, if someone was following me and had many outs, they could do better than my posted record. I know, because I did. Using mansion last year I got numbers that were not available anywhere thus increasing my earnings. This "using Widely Available Lines" thing is pure BS. If you gamble seriously you are getting the best number possible on every bet. If I settle for whatever is available I am giving money away. Getting a good line is one of the biggest parts of handicapping
All posting of plays should be priced at the Average shown on Betbrain or conventional -110 that way nobody can argue with ones record. Personally the number got from a Local is the one that winds me up, its always better than anything by a wide margin including a mysterious extra 1/2 point for no extra vig. :drink:
I often get better lines than people I've followed. Also, I don't think DonBest includes Matchbook and Mansion in the line archives. They're always 2-4 cents better than most sites, and sometimes more than 10 cents better. For example, this afternoon I waited on the Twins as they dropped on MB. I ended up snatching them at -194 and posted it immediately to make sure it was still there when I entered my post. And it was. At my other book, VIP, they were down to -210. Just my $.02.
Why should I post an average? I post what I bet unless it is not available then I post the best available. I agree locals should not be posted, that is a waste of time but if a line is available to bet why should I post a lesser number? To please a few idiots?
I'll pass and continue to do things the way I have for the last 4 years. It works for me and for those that follow me. If it doesnt work for you, dont read it.
