It's been 20 years today since we lost the legend that is Tupac Shakur.....September 13,1996

[ML Dog]

"Ye won't have to follow me.



(only you can set you Free)."


kinda stuff those with "it" say lmfao....

Reverse Psychology. They are born Masters of that

some thing within their brains sees them have that when they GET HERE

and so much more....

...might be some thing with their...."souls".


The Say of "Ye don't have to Follow Me"

makes The Masses wanna Follow even more.

 

[Greenbacks]

"I'm not saying I'm gonna rule the world, or change the world, but I guarantee I will spark the brain tha twill change the world. And that's our job - to spark someone else watching us." -Tupac

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Do you think that Biggie would have been as good as Tupac?.....Biggie passed at 25 & Tupac was 26.

 

[Defying]

Biggie was a superior rapper, lyricist

His music aged way better than tupac. And I was a MUCH bigger Pac fan than Big back in the day
Biggie had nowhere near the charisma.... or did it seem the desire to speak on social issues.

I guess it depends on your question...
IMHO, Biggie was better musician even then.. I think the only argument against him vs Tupac is amount of material he put out there. Tupac had an extraordinary amount of material in what, 5 years? But Big even though doesn't have much work, he was basically only around for 4 years. He created 2 classic albums, he would write things for LiL Kim and Junior Mafia..

I have no idea how Tupac would have progressed in todays hip hop. I think I would love others opinion on Pac's music if he was around today. He was so much was raw emotion.....


Biggie was a story teller, lyricist. I would be rather confident BIG could still make hit records. Tupac, no idea.

I think Tupac would have a bigger impact on society

 

[ML Dog]

Mob should def have an opinion on this. From what I've gather he's an old school, more underground hip hop guru

Not only will MOB have an Opinion on this but whatever opinion MOB has on this will be among the most educated that exists.

Mob knows his shit, re: Tupac and Social Situations, like, the State of Affairs...

State of This Dis-Union.

 

[ML Dog]

Biggie was a superior rapper, lyricist

His music aged way better than tupac. And I was a MUCH bigger Pac fan than Big back in the day
Biggie had nowhere near the charisma.... or did it seem the desire to speak on social issues.

I guess it depends on your question...
IMHO, Biggie was better musician even then.. I think the only argument against him vs Tupac is amount of material he put out there. Tupac had an extraordinary amount of material in what, 5 years? But Big even though doesn't have much work, he was basically only around for 4 years. He created 2 classic albums, he would write things for LiL Kim and Junior Mafia..

I have no idea how Tupac would have progressed in todays hip hop. I think I would love others opinion on Pac's music if he was around today. He was so much was raw emotion.....


Biggie was a story teller, lyricist. I would be rather confident BIG could still make hit records. Tupac, no idea.

I think Tupac would have a bigger impact on society

Tupac would have evolved to Producing. Heading up a Stable of Artists that would have been Infinitely More than they proved to be, without Tupac.


Especially if he'd been able to get from Suge Knight what was due to him, $$$$-wise.


If not though....Tupac still just puts out another 3 albums and makes even more money than Suge and Death Row stole from him.



Evidence: FUTURE and other "Mumble Rappers".

Had Tupac not died, Rap/Hip-Hop would have not fallen, descended to where MUMBLE RAP is an actual thing.


Biggie, his primary weapon was FLOW. That Fat Bastid be on FLOW like Majavishnu be on GRACE. Like a Huge Blue Elephant, Biggie came here and stomped on FLOW real real hard.

Biggie though.....The Life Of Excess near 100% Probability of causing him to not last real long. IMMO "The Life" + Biggie's Weight would have seen him not last



Back back back.....to the warning track

to the wall

 

[ML Dog]

I could reveal the true name of God but you would go insane upon hearing it.



Plans existed to defeat us

from fetus



that got revealed.




That made me strong, created my poison tongue





Back in the 1800s I was burned at the stake.

 

[ML Dog]

 

[ML Dog]

MOB




show us IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE


and.......


fuggin NAS



be laying down Genius as well.



I might come with more CHINO XL cuz this dude....


amazing lyricism.

and them songs ^^^^ they just the tip of the sword.





Immortal Technique and NAS though.....they brought some Ascension causing mind expanding BREAKOUT

get past this limited cage

dimension



fukkin tiny ass brutal Sand Box place



stuff as well.





Others did too.
​

 

[Cordoba]

No doubt Pac had a ton of charisma, was intelligent and talented. He also spoke with diction which is pretty rare amongst rappers. He was a great story teller. However so did other rappers from that golden era of hip hop in the 90s. Many of them were ahead of their time, including 2Pac! However it stops there with me. I'm a realist in every sense of the word. I'm not a fan of romantic sensationalism, especially when it's based on coulda' shoulda' woulda's. 2Pac was a good and entertaining rapper/actor. Nothing more/ nothing less.

2 Pac was a walking takling personification of contradictions. The same guy who would write about uplifting songs like Keep ya Head Up or Dear Mama... is the same guy rapping about "all respect to those who keep their hoes in check" "I fuck dem bitches" and "I fucked your wife". I posted that Hit em up video on the other page. If that isn't gangster rap, then I don't know what is?

What's worse is that 2Pac didn't just talk gangster rap just for shits and giggles. This dude incited a war on a whole other coast based on (all account and purposes from what I've heard and read) a paranoid delusion that he had been set up. Toward the end of his life, 2Pac ran with gangbangers and killers. He made the conscious choice to do all that. So no.. I don't feel bad that he got shot at all. Could have he made a difference later in his life? Maybe? But dude made his own bed and reaped what he sowed. I save my empathy for the kid in the backseat who gets rear ended and killed by a drunk driver who doesn't even get to make a choice in the first place.

Celebrate 2Pac's music all you want. There are so many jams of his that never got old. But don't get it twisted. This Nelson Mandela visionary mythical transcending status dude's achieved is silly. Dude was a larger than life rapper. Then he got shot. And that's it.

 

[ML Dog]

I'm high feeling like I'm walking in clouds and seeing faces staring at me as I move through the crowd

Feeling like the whole world just took a wickedness vow. ridiculous how hate has replaced all righteousness now.

Stop off in front of a church, I kneel and I bow.


Black Rosary for all the pain I kept in my file. Never reciprocated all the hurt that my mom allowed to happen to me, the amount of tears I shed could have drowned.


Now all I want to do is make my little girls proud.



And I pray my death is quiet but my funeral's loud.




When I'm feeling inspired reaching my inner child I witness my illusion shatter with no angels around. I'm hoping this explains why my hate and my anger's abound.

Abused and threatened with death if I had dared made a sound. Knocked to the floor, silently curled up on the ground.





I guess blood's a rite of passage on the way to the crown.





(get prepared to ROCK like ya ain't accustomed to.....with Hip Hop

there IS Hope of


Evolving


past the walls

artificial Road Blocks


Hurdles



that Greedy Men make here.



Not that difficult to see


"what" we are up against.





Unity.

 

[ML Dog]

No doubt Pac had a ton of charisma, was intelligent and talented. He also spoke with diction which is pretty rare amongst rappers. He was a great story teller. However so did other rappers from that golden era of hip hop in the 90s. Many of them were ahead of their time, including 2Pac! However it stops there with me. I'm a realist in every sense of the word. I'm not a fan of romantic sensationalism, especially when it's based on coulda' shoulda' woulda's. 2Pac was a good and entertaining rapper/actor. Nothing more/ nothing less.

2 Pac was a walking takling personification of contradictions. The same guy who would write about uplifting songs like Keep ya Head Up or Dear Mama... is the same guy rapping about "all respect to those who keep their hoes in check" "I fuck dem bitches" and "I fucked your wife". I posted that Hit em up video on the other page. If that isn't gangster rap, then I don't know what is?

What's worse is that 2Pac didn't just talk gangster rap just for shits and giggles. This dude incited a war on a whole other coast based on (all account and purposes from what I've heard and read) a paranoid delusion that he had been set up. Toward the end of his life, 2Pac ran with gangbangers and killers. He made the conscious choice to do all that. So no.. I don't feel bad that he got shot at all. Could have he made a difference later in his life? Maybe? But dude made his own bed and reaped what he sowed. I save my empathy for the kid in the backseat who gets rear ended and killed by a drunk driver who doesn't even get to make a choice in the first place.

Celebrate 2Pac's music all you want. There are so many jams of his that never got old. But don't get it twisted. This Nelson Mandela visionary mythical transcending status dude's achieved is silly. Dude was a larger than life rapper. Then he got shot. And that's it.

Wow.


Thats a deep post.


Thanks for bringing serious Intellectual Viewpoint to the conversation.


Wow.


Seriously....until one reads the Point of View expressed in that, like, at least 4 times so as to grasp it's possible correctness...

I think one cannot truly absorb what got expressed as possible Truth.


Wow.


Most Immediately though....within a Life, New Leafs get turned over.

Evolution Happens



We do Grow.



I have no way of knowing how Old you are Cordoba but if you are older than 36 years old


how much do you resemble the 22 year old you?


and East Coast/West Coast feud was made to incite passion and sell records, Tupac was a mere Pawn in that.

You've heard of WWE.

and Bam Bam Bigelow

similar deal.


Great Post though Cordoba.

 

[KingEleven]

Wow.


Thats a deep post.


Thanks for bringing serious Intellectual Viewpoint to the conversation.


Wow.


Seriously....until one reads the Point of View expressed in that, like, at least 4 times so as to grasp it's possible correctness...

I think one cannot truly absorb what got expressed as possible Truth.


Wow.


Most Immediately though....within a Life, New Leafs get turned over.

Evolution Happens



We do Grow.



I have no way of knowing how Old you are Cordoba but if you are older than 36 years old


how much do you resemble the 22 year old you?


and East Coast/West Coast feud was made to incite passion and sell records, Tupac was a mere Pawn in that.

You've heard of WWE.

and Bam Bam Bigelow

similar deal.


Great Post though Cordoba.

What's the Bam Bam story? I am not familiar.

 

[tanner12oz]

get your facts right

he was arrested, he was convicted..what facts am I not getting straight?

 

[Shub]

No doubt Pac had a ton of charisma, was intelligent and talented. He also spoke with diction which is pretty rare amongst rappers. He was a great story teller. However so did other rappers from that golden era of hip hop in the 90s. Many of them were ahead of their time, including 2Pac! However it stops there with me. I'm a realist in every sense of the word. I'm not a fan of romantic sensationalism, especially when it's based on coulda' shoulda' woulda's. 2Pac was a good and entertaining rapper/actor. Nothing more/ nothing less.

2 Pac was a walking takling personification of contradictions. The same guy who would write about uplifting songs like Keep ya Head Up or Dear Mama... is the same guy rapping about "all respect to those who keep their hoes in check" "I fuck dem bitches" and "I fucked your wife". I posted that Hit em up video on the other page. If that isn't gangster rap, then I don't know what is?

What's worse is that 2Pac didn't just talk gangster rap just for shits and giggles. This dude incited a war on a whole other coast based on (all account and purposes from what I've heard and read) a paranoid delusion that he had been set up. Toward the end of his life, 2Pac ran with gangbangers and killers. He made the conscious choice to do all that. So no.. I don't feel bad that he got shot at all. Could have he made a difference later in his life? Maybe? But dude made his own bed and reaped what he sowed. I save my empathy for the kid in the backseat who gets rear ended and killed by a drunk driver who doesn't even get to make a choice in the first place.

Celebrate 2Pac's music all you want. There are so many jams of his that never got old. But don't get it twisted. This Nelson Mandela visionary mythical transcending status dude's achieved is silly. Dude was a larger than life rapper. Then he got shot. And that's it.

If someone in your neighborhood is about to get robbed or shot and you don't do anything to stop it, youre just as guilty. Biggie and puff knew. Thats why he was so upset. Not to mention biggie never came to visit him while he was locked up. Not only that but he put biggie on. Let him open his shows, sleep on his couch and even give him money to catch the train home.

As far as being around gangbangers and killers, his mom and non biological father were both in the black panthers and other liberation groups. As well as many other family memebers, including his Aunt who was a political prisoner in Cuba.

he was more than just a "great rapper/actor" he was a prophet, revolutionary and a great leader. He dumbed most of music down so people would first listen and be able to identify with him. He stood up for what he believed in and was willing to die for it.

He signed with the conglomerate known as death row to get bailed out of prison. He signed the deal on a sheet of toilet paper, shows you how pressed he was to get out of jail. He was/is the only person ever to have a #1 album while being incarcerated. He was merely was fulfilling his obligation to Suge Knight. He wanted to branch off and start his own record label "One Nation".

He was far more intelligent than people give him credit for. 2pac was also an avid reader.

Why he has endured, he didnt just make music, he wove philosophy and literature out of words.

I could go on and on but it would take a while. He was truly a Rose that grew from Concrete.

 

[Cordoba]

@ML Dog

Thank you for the kind words.

As a matter of fact I"m 36. So excellent call!

To answer your question; the 36 year old version of me is very different than the 22 year old version of me. So yes, I get the perspective that had he not died he could have evolved and hence, made some sort of widespread positive impact. However the reality is that he didn't. He chose a certain path... and got himself killed in the process.

He chose to sign with Death Row Records
He chose to hang out with Bloods and Crips.
He chose to blame Biggie and his crew for getting robbed/shot.
He chose to be a willing participant (whether pawn or not) in the West Coast/ East Coast nonsense.

There's this great interview I heard the other day. It's from the Combat Jack Podcast with Ed Lover as the guest. (Ed Lover was the host of MTV raps in the early 90s and a good friend of 2Pac). Anyways, 20+ minutes of that interview is about 2Pac.. the good and the bad, from the point of view of someone who was a close friend of 2Pac. It's a good listen. It gives great insight into so many of the poor choices that 2Pac made. It's a sentiment I've heard in other interviews from others who knew 2Pac well.

Ultimately, Pac was intelligent enough to know that choices have repercussions. Especially in urban black America in the early/mid 90s when the crack epidemic was still going strong and crime was rampant. If you surround yourself in that, embody it, project it and live it.. then it's only a matter of time before you get caught up in it. He chose that life and paid the price.

"Live the Thug Life ni**a screaming, fuck It"...
"Loc'ed till they smoke me, the shit don't stop till my casket drop"
-2Pac; High Till I Die

 

[Shub]

he was arrested, he was convicted..what facts am I not getting straight?

Tupac was convicted for forcibly touching Ayanna Jackson's buttocks"

 

[Shub]

basically he was setup by the govt. Its either he stay behind bars or get bailed out by Suge Knight.

 

[Shub]

 

[Cordoba]

@ Shub

It’s clear you are a very big fan of 2Pac and as a result, you may be subject to observation bias. That’s fine. This romantic sensationalism is what I feel I’ve addressed in my posts. If you disagree, then so be it. But having a pretty objective viewpoint on 2Pac I feel strongly in everything I’ve said.

I don’t agree at all however that his family being political activists has anything to do with him hanging w/ gangbangers, criminals and killers. Being someone who spent some time living in shitty gang infested areas of LA for short periods of time while knowing plenty of others who still do… and as someone who also comes from a family of political activists (parents had to escape from Argentina during the persecution of the military junta of the early 80) I can tell you one has nothing to do with the other. He chose to hang with them because that’s what he consciously chose. As to why… listen to interviews from those who knew him and you’ll get a good grasp as to the why. What I’ve taken from those close to him was that it was due to his poor choices. Didn’t he even go to some liberal arts high school where Jada Pinket was his classmate for crying out loud? The Digital Underground 2Pac never screamed Thug Life! No man.. he at one point in time consciously chose to live that life.

“He wove philosophy and literature out of words.” Yes, he did. However so did many other 90s rappers… Common, KRS One, Guru (from Gangstarr) just to name a few. IMO it wasn’t his words that incited his legacy to endure. It was his passion! It was infectious! It still is. It’s what separated him and Biggie. No doubt he was a good/entertaining rapper.

However you call him a prophet.. a revolutionary. Well, I guess we have completely different definitions as to what those terms actually imply. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Shub]

I dont know what living in LA has anything to do with. I've lived there as well. I lived right down the street from where biggie was murdered. His mom was pregnant with him while she was in Jail. He we lived in Baltimore, New york , Oakland and LA. He was surrounded by that his whole life. I agree with you that some of his decisions could have been a lot wiser but he was 19 when brenda had a baby came out. Think of yourself at the age, like someone mentioned earlier. We dont always make the best decisions early on in our lives. We can agree to disagree. You're entitled to your opinion and thats fair.