<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Java:
What is the rollover requirement for the 10% deposit bonus?
If rollover is 10x, then on 500 deposit, rollover is 5000 in wagers. At -105 juice, hold % is about 2.4%. 2.4% x $5000 rollover = $122
$122 expected win by book - $50 from the 10% bonus.. yields $72 for $5000 worth of bets.
72/5000 = 1.44%
This seems like a slim gross profit margin before taking out phones, clerks, rent, and wiring fees.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pinnacle has all this and more with 3 x rollover. And no online casino.
What is the rollover requirement for the 10% deposit bonus?
If rollover is 10x, then on 500 deposit, rollover is 5000 in wagers. At -105 juice, hold % is about 2.4%. 2.4% x $5000 rollover = $122
$122 expected win by book - $50 from the 10% bonus.. yields $72 for $5000 worth of bets.
72/5000 = 1.44%
This seems like a slim gross profit margin before taking out phones, clerks, rent, and wiring fees.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pinnacle has all this and more with 3 x rollover. And no online casino.
Current IIS clients will need to choose one of the two reduced juice plans being offered by calling our Customer Service department.
The maximum single wager allowed will be determined by which of the two plans you choose.
You may email support@iisportsbook.com for more details!
Current Deposit Bonus Specials
In addition to our Juice Discounts, receive a 10% CASH BONUS on your deposits!
Deposit Amount/Cash Bonus:
$300 - $499 10% 2x Rollover
$500 - $999 10% 3x Rollover
$1,000 - $4,999 10% 4x Rollover
$5,000 - $9,999 10% 5x Rollover
$10,000+ 10% 6x Rollover
Should you have any further questions, please contact our friendly customer service department toll free at 1-800-809-0948!
International Island Sportsbookhttp://www.reducedjuice.com
1-800-809-0948 Customer Service
1-800-809-7919 Wagering Dept.
NETeller merchant code: INTE1427
[This message was edited by The General on October 17, 2003 at 07:18 PM.]
The maximum single wager allowed will be determined by which of the two plans you choose.
You may email support@iisportsbook.com for more details!
Current Deposit Bonus Specials
In addition to our Juice Discounts, receive a 10% CASH BONUS on your deposits!
Deposit Amount/Cash Bonus:
$300 - $499 10% 2x Rollover
$500 - $999 10% 3x Rollover
$1,000 - $4,999 10% 4x Rollover
$5,000 - $9,999 10% 5x Rollover
$10,000+ 10% 6x Rollover
Should you have any further questions, please contact our friendly customer service department toll free at 1-800-809-0948!
International Island Sportsbookhttp://www.reducedjuice.com
1-800-809-0948 Customer Service
1-800-809-7919 Wagering Dept.
NETeller merchant code: INTE1427
[This message was edited by The General on October 17, 2003 at 07:18 PM.]
looks to me like they are offering a bonus. However, CrazyjivinIvan, you must not be very smart if you don't understand how HUGE 105 juice is. If I can find more books to offer it, I will pay them a 10% bonus. A friend of mine figured out the difference between 105 and 110, and it was enough at the end of the year to buy a new car! wake up crazy jivin ivan, be smart and get 105 wherever you can get it. IIS and PInnacle, you are my two main outs!
Okay, now that IIS has clarified the rollover requirement, let's assume the following specific scenarios:
Deposit $500. Make a lot of small random wagers (coin-flip is fine, to produce book theoretical hold of 2.4%). Make $1500 in wagers. Book expects to win $1500 x 2.4% = $12
Book awards bonus of $50.
Book expectation value is -$38 from the original $500 deposit.
With $1000 deposit and 4x rollover, book wins $96 and pays $100 in bonus. Book loses $4.
Player has the advantage, just playing blindly with coin-flips.
Book still has to pay for phones/clerks/rent.
Deposit $500. Make a lot of small random wagers (coin-flip is fine, to produce book theoretical hold of 2.4%). Make $1500 in wagers. Book expects to win $1500 x 2.4% = $12
Book awards bonus of $50.
Book expectation value is -$38 from the original $500 deposit.
With $1000 deposit and 4x rollover, book wins $96 and pays $100 in bonus. Book loses $4.
Player has the advantage, just playing blindly with coin-flips.
Book still has to pay for phones/clerks/rent.
Java, what are you trying to prove? As I said earlier, Pinnacle has almost the same bonus deal and offers -105 on much more! And they are on their own, without the "support" of standard high vig books like IIS -105 and are doing more than fine. As to your example I think it is flawed... If I deposit $500 and make 60 wagers totaling $1500 at $25 each I expect to lose $1.19 on a $50 investment. And hitting 50% of those $25 wagers at -105 I will lose as much as $35.71...
Ignorant-
Sorry there, I hit a wrong button on my calculator. $1500 * 2.4% = $36
Minus the $50 deposit yield -$14.
As for my point... I think a book can really get killed giving away so much. I had a thread a few weeks ago about how low you could make the juice without having to give out any bonuses. It seemed to be that a book could go -105 or -106 without bonuses.
However, it seems to me that -105 with bonuses is a very risky policy for a book.
I wish IIS well, but this sort of program is an invitation for players to set up multiple accounts. A sharp player (doing more than random coin-flips) should be able to walk way with a lot. It's great for the players, unless IIS becomes unprofitable and can't pay.
A lot of books have gone down from having bonus programs that were too generous.
Sorry there, I hit a wrong button on my calculator. $1500 * 2.4% = $36
Minus the $50 deposit yield -$14.
As for my point... I think a book can really get killed giving away so much. I had a thread a few weeks ago about how low you could make the juice without having to give out any bonuses. It seemed to be that a book could go -105 or -106 without bonuses.
However, it seems to me that -105 with bonuses is a very risky policy for a book.
I wish IIS well, but this sort of program is an invitation for players to set up multiple accounts. A sharp player (doing more than random coin-flips) should be able to walk way with a lot. It's great for the players, unless IIS becomes unprofitable and can't pay.
A lot of books have gone down from having bonus programs that were too generous.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Samurai:
If they're able to acquire lots of new customers at a cost of only $4 to $38 each, then it could turn out to be a very good marketing move.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Samuri-
I was showing that it may cost IIS, without making any money. If they want to spend $100 to get a customer, it should be a customer that they expect to generate more than $100 in losing bets. If on the other hand, they spend $100 but the customer is only expected to lose $90, then this is a bad idea for the book.
For that $4 or $14 (correction from $36), the book is also paying deposit fees and having clerks answer the phone. Those are additional expenses beyond the expected wagering win/loss.
I'm not convinced that this will cut down on the bonus scammers (the way a pure -105 would). I think it leaves a book open to unnecessary risk.
If they're able to acquire lots of new customers at a cost of only $4 to $38 each, then it could turn out to be a very good marketing move.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Samuri-
I was showing that it may cost IIS, without making any money. If they want to spend $100 to get a customer, it should be a customer that they expect to generate more than $100 in losing bets. If on the other hand, they spend $100 but the customer is only expected to lose $90, then this is a bad idea for the book.
For that $4 or $14 (correction from $36), the book is also paying deposit fees and having clerks answer the phone. Those are additional expenses beyond the expected wagering win/loss.
I'm not convinced that this will cut down on the bonus scammers (the way a pure -105 would). I think it leaves a book open to unnecessary risk.
1st. Juice discounts show after account is activated and...
2nd. Customers may choose one of the two plans
-105 Juice up to $500 or
-107 Juice up to $1000
Either way, IT'S A GREAT DEAL!
Good Luck!
International Island Sportsbook
Reduced Juice All Day, Everyday!!
www.reducedjuice.com
1-800-809-6872
support@iisportsbook.com
2nd. Customers may choose one of the two plans
-105 Juice up to $500 or
-107 Juice up to $1000
Either way, IT'S A GREAT DEAL!
Good Luck!
International Island Sportsbook
Reduced Juice All Day, Everyday!!
www.reducedjuice.com
1-800-809-6872
support@iisportsbook.com
Ignorant, haven't analyzed the Pinnacle program too much. I thought it was -107, but I wasn't paying too close attention.
My point in all of this is that -105 or -106 juice and NO BONUSES is the most risk a book should take. Tacking on bonuses above and beyond the low juice sounds like a bad idea. (great way to get a lot of customers and deposits, but also great way to lose your shirt.)
Think about it: how many books got in trouble with normal -110 juice and 5x and 10x rollover? Now, you've got half the juice and half the rollover. Theoretically, the rollover requirement should DOUBLE if you half the juice, not half the rollover. So, it appears that the rollover requirement is proportionally 1/4th of what it should be.
Again, I wish IIS luck and I think they are going to need it. I predict a lot of books are going to try and match this program and get crushed trying to cover operating expenses.
My point in all of this is that -105 or -106 juice and NO BONUSES is the most risk a book should take. Tacking on bonuses above and beyond the low juice sounds like a bad idea. (great way to get a lot of customers and deposits, but also great way to lose your shirt.)
Think about it: how many books got in trouble with normal -110 juice and 5x and 10x rollover? Now, you've got half the juice and half the rollover. Theoretically, the rollover requirement should DOUBLE if you half the juice, not half the rollover. So, it appears that the rollover requirement is proportionally 1/4th of what it should be.
Again, I wish IIS luck and I think they are going to need it. I predict a lot of books are going to try and match this program and get crushed trying to cover operating expenses.
