TTELLER: what the fuk do you call the thousands of innoncent lives that are taken every year in the name of "choice"?
B: Fetuses. They don't have a 'right to life' until successfully delivered.
Any time a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy is up to her and her doctor.
As for GW Bush, he can't 'do anything' about legal abortion. Every attempt to do that in the past 30 years has been correctly shut down by the court system.
B: Fetuses. They don't have a 'right to life' until successfully delivered.
Any time a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy is up to her and her doctor.
As for GW Bush, he can't 'do anything' about legal abortion. Every attempt to do that in the past 30 years has been correctly shut down by the court system.
It will be interesting to find out if Scott Peterson can be convicted of 2 murders, won't it?
Peterson Double-murder Case
FOUR MORE YEARS!
Peterson Double-murder Case
FOUR MORE YEARS!
TT: just shows the hypocrisy of the liberals "Under California law, murder charges can result if the fetus is older than seven weeks."
B: You're in the right vicinity here, but you just took too hard of a turn to the right.
See, there's no hypocrisy in supporting legal termination of pregnancies. The hypocrisy is allowing someone to be charged for two murders when they kill a pregnant woman.
Fetuses aren't human beings.
They're CLOSE, especially the nearer they come to successful delivery. But until that happens, they miss the cut.
That's why life is so valuable. If you can make it thru to successful delivery, you get bestowed the rights of a full human being the instant you breathe on your own.
B: You're in the right vicinity here, but you just took too hard of a turn to the right.
See, there's no hypocrisy in supporting legal termination of pregnancies. The hypocrisy is allowing someone to be charged for two murders when they kill a pregnant woman.
Fetuses aren't human beings.
They're CLOSE, especially the nearer they come to successful delivery. But until that happens, they miss the cut.
That's why life is so valuable. If you can make it thru to successful delivery, you get bestowed the rights of a full human being the instant you breathe on your own.
As a pro-choice advocate, I would wholeheartedly suggest that both of our governments get up the 'nads to make a statement about the viability of a fetus, and at which time, specifically, it should be protected under the law.
Laci Peterson was eight months pregnant, wasn't she? She obviously had full intent to carry this baby to term, and certainly we can agree that the baby could be viable outside of the mother's womb at the time of the murder.
It is my belief that abortions should not take place after the first trimester unless there is a medical urgency to do so. If a woman is six months pregnant and blasting her nose with coke on a daily basis, she should be charged with assault, absolutely. There is an enormous grey area in all of this ... and a line needs to be drawn down the middle of it.
Laci Peterson was eight months pregnant, wasn't she? She obviously had full intent to carry this baby to term, and certainly we can agree that the baby could be viable outside of the mother's womb at the time of the murder.
It is my belief that abortions should not take place after the first trimester unless there is a medical urgency to do so. If a woman is six months pregnant and blasting her nose with coke on a daily basis, she should be charged with assault, absolutely. There is an enormous grey area in all of this ... and a line needs to be drawn down the middle of it.
Respectfully Xpanda, since I bet we agree on more than we disagree - You want a line other than the current one which I mentioned above...that being a line at successful delivery. You suggest perhaps at 'end of first trimester'.
Let's say we did that.
What do we do then in response to a woman who chooses to terminate on Day 91? (presuming we could precisely define the day conception took place).
Murder charges? For her only? How about husband and/or other family members who may have been involved with persuading her to terminate? Are they accessories to murder?
How about the doctor? And anyone else working at the clinic? Should they be charged as well?
I'm not saying 'my' line is particulary any better than 'your' proposed line. I'm just inviting comment as to how we would rationally deal with those women who might view Day 100 as being just as valid as Day 20 for terminating an unwanted fetus.
Let's say we did that.
What do we do then in response to a woman who chooses to terminate on Day 91? (presuming we could precisely define the day conception took place).
Murder charges? For her only? How about husband and/or other family members who may have been involved with persuading her to terminate? Are they accessories to murder?
How about the doctor? And anyone else working at the clinic? Should they be charged as well?
I'm not saying 'my' line is particulary any better than 'your' proposed line. I'm just inviting comment as to how we would rationally deal with those women who might view Day 100 as being just as valid as Day 20 for terminating an unwanted fetus.
If abortion were deemed illegal after the first trimester (I threw that out there arbitrarily, as it tends to be the time frame within which most abortions do happen, and most miscarriages as well) then a crime specific to the termination of a pregnancy after the first trimester, but before the fetus could be viable on its own outside the womb (typically regarded to be five months or later,) would have to be legislated. Murder would be too harsh and would never pass feminist inspection, but a specific charge could be outlined to deal with it. Certainly an abortion at seven months, without medical urgency, could be deemed murder, yes.
As for the specificity of the length of gestation ... ultra sounds are fairly accurate in pinpointing this. Would we call it 90 days on the nose? Not likely ... but 'first trimester plus or minus x number of days' should help to alleviate some of this risk.
Edited to answer the rest of your question: concurrent charges would have to be laid on the doctor involved, obviously, and if there were any third party individuals, I doubt you could tap them with anything more than aiding and abetting.
As for the specificity of the length of gestation ... ultra sounds are fairly accurate in pinpointing this. Would we call it 90 days on the nose? Not likely ... but 'first trimester plus or minus x number of days' should help to alleviate some of this risk.
Edited to answer the rest of your question: concurrent charges would have to be laid on the doctor involved, obviously, and if there were any third party individuals, I doubt you could tap them with anything more than aiding and abetting.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lander:
Kman,
Most murderers get a life sentence or worse - death.
I'm sorry to "bore" you with my third week of talks on the evils of genocide.
Do you think the Jews got tired of Hitler talk after a few weeks?
------------------------------------------------
TT,
I just explained my position - Bush will NOT make abortion illegal, but he has shown to be a genocidial "war president".
Kerry has not proven that he will be a genocidal president, but he will keep the abortion legal too.
Lets call the number of babies murdered "A".
Lets call the number of muslims murdered "B"
Bush murders
A + B
Kerry murders (if NOT genocidal)
A
Kerry murders (if genocidal)
A + B
This is a very simple thought process - I am voting for the lesser of two evils. Do I like John Kerry - No, but I HATE Bush for his crimes against humanity and his lies and hypocracy regarding compassion towards humanity.
If I had my way I'd elect a president that doesn't contribute to the abortion of thousands of babies or directly order the genocidal murders of thousands of muslims.
Unfortunately that vote (RTL) is a complete fuking waste.
I will be voting against Bush, and right now the only candidate that can beat him is the Democratic candidate.
In the future I will probably vote Republican (assuming they offer a true compassionate).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bush's crimes against humanity? Puh-lease.
Kman,
Most murderers get a life sentence or worse - death.
I'm sorry to "bore" you with my third week of talks on the evils of genocide.
Do you think the Jews got tired of Hitler talk after a few weeks?
------------------------------------------------
TT,
I just explained my position - Bush will NOT make abortion illegal, but he has shown to be a genocidial "war president".
Kerry has not proven that he will be a genocidal president, but he will keep the abortion legal too.
Lets call the number of babies murdered "A".
Lets call the number of muslims murdered "B"
Bush murders
A + B
Kerry murders (if NOT genocidal)
A
Kerry murders (if genocidal)
A + B
This is a very simple thought process - I am voting for the lesser of two evils. Do I like John Kerry - No, but I HATE Bush for his crimes against humanity and his lies and hypocracy regarding compassion towards humanity.
If I had my way I'd elect a president that doesn't contribute to the abortion of thousands of babies or directly order the genocidal murders of thousands of muslims.
Unfortunately that vote (RTL) is a complete fuking waste.
I will be voting against Bush, and right now the only candidate that can beat him is the Democratic candidate.
In the future I will probably vote Republican (assuming they offer a true compassionate).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bush's crimes against humanity? Puh-lease.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Fetuses aren't human beings.
They're CLOSE, especially the nearer they come to successful delivery. But until that happens, they miss the cut."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are you or anyone else to determine the fetus has no rights? Are you GOD?
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; UNIQUE human life begins. There will never be another person like that.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child’s backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
You want me to go on, you murder advocate?? You people are no different to Hitler
They're CLOSE, especially the nearer they come to successful delivery. But until that happens, they miss the cut."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are you or anyone else to determine the fetus has no rights? Are you GOD?
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; UNIQUE human life begins. There will never be another person like that.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child’s backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
You want me to go on, you murder advocate?? You people are no different to Hitler
TT,
I am not God, but every night God and I converse. He is very interested in who the next American Idol will be. I myself don't watch American Idol and between you and me, I think God might be a little limp wristed if you know what I mean. Well, one night a few weeks ago while God and I were playing Boggle, I recommend never playing Boggle with the all knowing, and I wanted to discuss the issue of abortion with him. Would you like to know what he said to me? He said, "peep, I gave women the ultimate power to have children... it is their choice." In response I was like, "you gotta be shittin' me dawg!" He said, "Gee, you gotsta understand, without necessity and choice ya'll would still be draggin' your knuckles." He convinced me... it's a woman's choice. After that I wanted to talk to him about stoning my neighbor for mixing cotton and hemp clothing, but he laughed it off and said, "these days you just need your 9mm."
I am not God, but every night God and I converse. He is very interested in who the next American Idol will be. I myself don't watch American Idol and between you and me, I think God might be a little limp wristed if you know what I mean. Well, one night a few weeks ago while God and I were playing Boggle, I recommend never playing Boggle with the all knowing, and I wanted to discuss the issue of abortion with him. Would you like to know what he said to me? He said, "peep, I gave women the ultimate power to have children... it is their choice." In response I was like, "you gotta be shittin' me dawg!" He said, "Gee, you gotsta understand, without necessity and choice ya'll would still be draggin' your knuckles." He convinced me... it's a woman's choice. After that I wanted to talk to him about stoning my neighbor for mixing cotton and hemp clothing, but he laughed it off and said, "these days you just need your 9mm."
TT: the bottom line, however, is that this 'baby' at 8 weeks with all its newly formed bits and pieces, would be fundamentally non-viable outside of the mother's womb. Ultimately, whether you like it or not, she has full disclosure on the survivability of this child. Something as simple as her diet could bring on a miscarriage. (Do you have any idea of the plethora of homemade miscarriage options there are available?)
Now, I would like to see some kind of 'when life begins' legislation that pre-dates birth, but only because I am horrified by women who abuse their unborn in the latter part of a pregnancy knowing that they will be carrying to full term. However, I would march and fight and spit and claw to defend the right to choose for women through their first trimester at the very least.
As I said to you earlier, unless and until you can put yourself in the shoes of a woman who must make this very intense decision, you don't fully know what the overall implications are. You think you do, but you don't.
Now, I would like to see some kind of 'when life begins' legislation that pre-dates birth, but only because I am horrified by women who abuse their unborn in the latter part of a pregnancy knowing that they will be carrying to full term. However, I would march and fight and spit and claw to defend the right to choose for women through their first trimester at the very least.
As I said to you earlier, unless and until you can put yourself in the shoes of a woman who must make this very intense decision, you don't fully know what the overall implications are. You think you do, but you don't.
Xpanda, yes I agree that the baby is fully dependent on the mother for survival. Does that automatically giver her the right to abort it?
When it's all said and done, it's a life she is taking when an abortion is performed.
The intense decision should be whether or not she should have opened her legs or the choice of using protection or not. That's the only decision there should be.
You know like when you get AIDS, you don't have a choice later of cutting off your dick for it to go away.
Mass, if I were to say blacks are mentally inferior, am I a racist.
When it's all said and done, it's a life she is taking when an abortion is performed.
The intense decision should be whether or not she should have opened her legs or the choice of using protection or not. That's the only decision there should be.
You know like when you get AIDS, you don't have a choice later of cutting off your dick for it to go away.
Mass, if I were to say blacks are mentally inferior, am I a racist.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Xpanda, yes I agree that the baby is fully dependent on the mother for survival. Does that automatically giver her the right to abort it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
TT and X,using that logic that would mean you could abort up until the age of about 5 years old.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
TT and X,using that logic that would mean you could abort up until the age of about 5 years old.
