KMAN
You ever here about the domino effect ?
Give this gov't an inch and eventually they will take a mile. It will lead to more freedoms and privacy being stripped from us.
I do not want the gov't listening to my phone calls and snooping through my email or even snail mail.
You ever here about the domino effect ?
Give this gov't an inch and eventually they will take a mile. It will lead to more freedoms and privacy being stripped from us.
I do not want the gov't listening to my phone calls and snooping through my email or even snail mail.
Exactly. The patriot act is dangerous because it sets a precedence for the government 1. choosing security over freedom, and 2. Stripping away our rights at the expense of the constitution.
One analogy could be the Harrison act of 1914 which was the first prohibition act in our nations history. Had someone not allowed this precedent, then we wouldnt be engaged in this fruitless war on drugs.
And Kman, your abortion statement is hypocritical. You say you dont like abortion because it is murder, and murder is wrong. That is fine, but many of us say we dont like the patriot act becasue it suppresses freedom, and that is wrong. You have not been aborted, and many of us have yet to be directly harmed by the patriot act, it is the same thing.
However I have lost sleep as a result of the patriot act, knowing that dubuya Ashcroft et al, are turing my country into a George Orwell novel.But sheepish cheerleaders such as yourself keep encouraging them for the purpose of "sticking it to the libs" or some shit.
For the record, how did Clintons blow jobs alter your way of life?
One analogy could be the Harrison act of 1914 which was the first prohibition act in our nations history. Had someone not allowed this precedent, then we wouldnt be engaged in this fruitless war on drugs.
And Kman, your abortion statement is hypocritical. You say you dont like abortion because it is murder, and murder is wrong. That is fine, but many of us say we dont like the patriot act becasue it suppresses freedom, and that is wrong. You have not been aborted, and many of us have yet to be directly harmed by the patriot act, it is the same thing.
However I have lost sleep as a result of the patriot act, knowing that dubuya Ashcroft et al, are turing my country into a George Orwell novel.But sheepish cheerleaders such as yourself keep encouraging them for the purpose of "sticking it to the libs" or some shit.
For the record, how did Clintons blow jobs alter your way of life?
the Patriot Act is a piece of shit because it infringes on the civil liberties of Americans and some of that flows through to the rest of the world because America is the biggest bully ever known.
anyway you asked for specifics so i had best relate some.
several institutions / banks have refused to open an account for me because the source of the funds is gambling and this explanation raises questions worldwide especially post 911.
1) i have had a bank a/c in my own name in indonesia for several years. a couple of years ago i transferred a sizeable sum to an a/c with the same bank in the name of a BVI Co. with the plan of buying a house.
18 months ago i transferred the funds back to HK to fund an investment in an IPO. 6 mths later the bank a/c was closed.
2) every few weeks during racing season we would transfer funds electronically into the a/c of a chinese and he would withdraw cash in order to bet on the races. the bank would have known EXACTLY what was going on but i assume didn't want the paparwork hassles with the gov't so a/c closed.
3) same bank each time -- another chinese, young, degree. we won a lot of money from the HKJC through his telebet a/c which would then get transferred elcetronically to his bank a/c.
he would then transfer the funds to someone elses a/c and tthe funds then transferred offshore.
account closed 3 mths ago.
4) i send filippina to HK to send funds offshore . same operation -- transfer funds electronically ( bank would know exactly where they originated namely winnings on horse racing ) and she then wired the funds to an English legal firm.
account closed within a few days.
none of the above examples ever happened prior to the Patriot Act.
maybe it doesn't affect many now but "big brother" may grow and i would be concerned for your future.
anyway you asked for specifics so i had best relate some.
several institutions / banks have refused to open an account for me because the source of the funds is gambling and this explanation raises questions worldwide especially post 911.
1) i have had a bank a/c in my own name in indonesia for several years. a couple of years ago i transferred a sizeable sum to an a/c with the same bank in the name of a BVI Co. with the plan of buying a house.
18 months ago i transferred the funds back to HK to fund an investment in an IPO. 6 mths later the bank a/c was closed.
2) every few weeks during racing season we would transfer funds electronically into the a/c of a chinese and he would withdraw cash in order to bet on the races. the bank would have known EXACTLY what was going on but i assume didn't want the paparwork hassles with the gov't so a/c closed.
3) same bank each time -- another chinese, young, degree. we won a lot of money from the HKJC through his telebet a/c which would then get transferred elcetronically to his bank a/c.
he would then transfer the funds to someone elses a/c and tthe funds then transferred offshore.
account closed 3 mths ago.
4) i send filippina to HK to send funds offshore . same operation -- transfer funds electronically ( bank would know exactly where they originated namely winnings on horse racing ) and she then wired the funds to an English legal firm.
account closed within a few days.
none of the above examples ever happened prior to the Patriot Act.
maybe it doesn't affect many now but "big brother" may grow and i would be concerned for your future.
I feel sorry for those of you who are so paranoid of the government. But then again, all of you against it are probably not even living in America so I guess I should consider the source.
I can't help but wonder if there would be all of this outrage if it was a Democrat in office. I guess it all comes down to the fact that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, and I am doing nothing wrong.
You guys complain about getting your so called civil liberties taken away by the all powerful government, yet you are all for higher taxes and giving more money to the government that you hate??????????? I'm confused.
KMAN
I can't help but wonder if there would be all of this outrage if it was a Democrat in office. I guess it all comes down to the fact that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, and I am doing nothing wrong.
You guys complain about getting your so called civil liberties taken away by the all powerful government, yet you are all for higher taxes and giving more money to the government that you hate??????????? I'm confused.
KMAN
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KMAN:
I feel sorry for those of you who are so paranoid of the government. But then again, all of you against it are probably not even living in America so I guess I should consider the source.
I can't help but wonder if there would be all of this outrage if it was a Democrat in office. I guess it all comes down to the fact that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, and I am doing nothing wrong.
You guys complain about getting your so called civil liberties taken away by the all powerful government, yet you are all for higher taxes and giving more money to the government that you hate??????????? I'm confused.
KMAN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Higher taxes these days have nothing to do with what the government spends. Higher taxes will simply reduce the debt and deficit that future geberations will have to deal with. Government spending also does not have to correspond wih the erosion of liberties -- that only happens when John Ashcroft is AG.
And the Patriot Act is outrageous regardless who is in office. Most Dems helped write the act and pass it so they are just as responsible for it.
I feel sorry for those of you who are so paranoid of the government. But then again, all of you against it are probably not even living in America so I guess I should consider the source.
I can't help but wonder if there would be all of this outrage if it was a Democrat in office. I guess it all comes down to the fact that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, and I am doing nothing wrong.
You guys complain about getting your so called civil liberties taken away by the all powerful government, yet you are all for higher taxes and giving more money to the government that you hate??????????? I'm confused.
KMAN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Higher taxes these days have nothing to do with what the government spends. Higher taxes will simply reduce the debt and deficit that future geberations will have to deal with. Government spending also does not have to correspond wih the erosion of liberties -- that only happens when John Ashcroft is AG.
And the Patriot Act is outrageous regardless who is in office. Most Dems helped write the act and pass it so they are just as responsible for it.
Kman,
Its obvious you have done little research in the ways of critical thinking. Calling all opponents to patriot act, and telling them they are for higher taxes, is flat out wrong. I am a liberterian. You are closer to a marxist than I am.
Secondly, to assume that disagreeing with your country makes you against it, GOES AGAINST THE VERY PRINCIPLE THAT WE WERE FOUNDED ON!
You are the one that hates the constitution. You are the one that supports a freedom suppressing act, in the name of bi-partisan cheerleading, and blind patriotism.
By the way I am very much from America.
You are more loyal to the republican party than you are to America. You are more un-american than I.
Its obvious you have done little research in the ways of critical thinking. Calling all opponents to patriot act, and telling them they are for higher taxes, is flat out wrong. I am a liberterian. You are closer to a marxist than I am.
Secondly, to assume that disagreeing with your country makes you against it, GOES AGAINST THE VERY PRINCIPLE THAT WE WERE FOUNDED ON!
You are the one that hates the constitution. You are the one that supports a freedom suppressing act, in the name of bi-partisan cheerleading, and blind patriotism.
By the way I am very much from America.
You are more loyal to the republican party than you are to America. You are more un-american than I.
KMAN,
FYI I have always been registered Republican and even voted for Bush. I certainly won't be mistaken by anyone that knows me as a flaming lib. To equate anyone that doesn't support Bush and his cast of idiots as a flaming lib is ridiculous. I fully believe that the problem here is that Bush's team and indeed his party have serious insecurity issues. To handle them they are doing whatever they can to take the little door of opportunity they were handed in 2000 and 2002 and trying to take a cannon to blow it open further. Elections and democracy require playing by the rules and respecting the great traditions we have here. Instead we have Tom DeLay going out and egging on Texas and other states to redraw their lines whenever it might yield an extra representative for his side, going completely against long-held tradition to do that once a decade. That would be what most would call imperialistic behavior.
The great thing about this country is that the rules are set and you must abide by them. If you do good and gain the advantage by good policy and deeds, by all means you deserve to gain in the process. What is going on is nothing of the sort. The party in power is doing what it can to expand all the things in its favor and pissing on tradition and rules that make us a democracy. There are many countries in the world that had vigorous democracies and all it took were the actions of one party that got into power and began strongarming the rules to turn them into one-party states. Now thankfully our traditions and history probably preclude such an outcome, but it sure doesn't seem to be stopping Republicans from trying. Read some of their statements, they are treating this as their once in a lifetime oppotunity to get a dominant party edge. Is that healthy for this country? I don't think so...
FYI I have always been registered Republican and even voted for Bush. I certainly won't be mistaken by anyone that knows me as a flaming lib. To equate anyone that doesn't support Bush and his cast of idiots as a flaming lib is ridiculous. I fully believe that the problem here is that Bush's team and indeed his party have serious insecurity issues. To handle them they are doing whatever they can to take the little door of opportunity they were handed in 2000 and 2002 and trying to take a cannon to blow it open further. Elections and democracy require playing by the rules and respecting the great traditions we have here. Instead we have Tom DeLay going out and egging on Texas and other states to redraw their lines whenever it might yield an extra representative for his side, going completely against long-held tradition to do that once a decade. That would be what most would call imperialistic behavior.
The great thing about this country is that the rules are set and you must abide by them. If you do good and gain the advantage by good policy and deeds, by all means you deserve to gain in the process. What is going on is nothing of the sort. The party in power is doing what it can to expand all the things in its favor and pissing on tradition and rules that make us a democracy. There are many countries in the world that had vigorous democracies and all it took were the actions of one party that got into power and began strongarming the rules to turn them into one-party states. Now thankfully our traditions and history probably preclude such an outcome, but it sure doesn't seem to be stopping Republicans from trying. Read some of their statements, they are treating this as their once in a lifetime oppotunity to get a dominant party edge. Is that healthy for this country? I don't think so...
