How has the Patriot Act effected you, and why?

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There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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"Originally posted by KMAN:
Lander - I never said that this wasn't hurting anyone financially."

I said that you, "implied that nobody suffers financially as if that were more important then the raping of basic liberty."

"I just want to know how this has effected those of you here at the Prescription.....So far all I have heard is that it sucks to have to give Neteller your SSN and it deprives you of basic liberties.....well what liberties??????
http://therxforum.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=9103084407&m=356104201

They're not RX'ers because they preoccupied being indefinately detained against their will and free of charge.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lander:
They're not RX'ers because they preoccupied being indefinately detained against their will and free of charge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beat you to it by about 30 seconds. Great minds...
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It's affected not effected.

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Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House
 

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Since when are foreign nationals entitled to the same rights as Americans without stepping a foot on American soil? I'm not saying it's right but the Constitution doesn't apply to them.
 

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Why stop at the Patriot Act? If you REALLY want to be safe from terra-ists why don't we just turn the US into a Castro-style discatorship? All those pesky and useless rights in the Constitution just get in the way and if you have nothing to hide you don't need them anyway.
 

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You libs are proving my point with every response! THANKS!

Nobody can give me an example of how this affects them but they sure can bitch about it.
icon_rolleyes.gif


KMAN
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KMAN:
You libs are proving my point with every response! THANKS!

Nobody can give me an example of how this affects them but they sure can bitch about it.
icon_rolleyes.gif


KMAN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "Originally posted by KMAN:
Lander - I never said that this wasn't hurting anyone financially."
I said that you, "implied that nobody suffers financially as if that were more important then the raping of basic liberty."

"I just want to know how this has effected those of you here at the Prescription.....So far all I have heard is that it sucks to have to give Neteller your SSN and it deprives you of basic liberties.....well what liberties??????
http://therxforum.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=9103084407&m=356104201

They're not RX'ers because they preoccupied being indefinately detained against their will and free of charge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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FUlander,

"So, for those of YOU that have been effected please share YOUR story so we, who are indifferent about it, can perhaps change our mind."

And then later: "D2bets - Have YOU been hurt financially or in any other way from providing this information?"

Emphasis added for the moronic (Lander) and everybody else.

And then your retort:

"People have been hurt financially ...Go ask Citibank how many wires are unnecessarily delayed for weeks at a time thanks to the PATRIOT ACT."


Man, talk about specific examples occurring to YOU.

"Your incomprehensiion seems to boil down to the same problem each and every day - you seem incapable of reading a thread in it's entirety."

The only thing I can't comprehend is why a f-cking moron thinks he's so smart, making a fool of himself on a daily basis.

"Regardless of the cause the solution should clearly be for you to STFU until you actually know what's the adults are talking about."

The only solution is to only discuss things with people who have an IQ above 50, which you clearly are not even close to.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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IGetPMS,
Did the halocaust affect you directly?
Did the "rape rooms" in Iraq affect you directly?
Did 9/11 affect you directly?

Oh, that's a good point you have .. we shoudn't have done anything about that stuff.

Twit.

And actually, I was affected because my wire to pay off my mortgage in full was delayed for a few days by those fuks with their PATRIOT ACT. Fortunely, they decided a mortgage payment wasn't a crazy means for laundering money to Osama Bin Laden (remember? the guy your hero can't catch) and I only incurred a few days extra worth of interest. That interest could have paid your school lunch for a week .. but now it's gone.
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Like I said if you don't care about the Constitution and feel that it's irrelevant then move to Cuba where you would like it better.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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Banned,
I'm afraid that if these facists in Washington keep stripping our liberties that a "nice little Democratic" country might come along and "free" us (from life) with some MOABs, occupy us and steal our resources.

six of one, half dozen of the other, I suppose.
 

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KMAN,

Other than some minor inconveniences and delays receiving bank wires at work it really hasn't affected me personally like the way it did to the citizens of Arab descent who were profiled on 60 minutes and who were detained in jails for months post-9/11 and denied their constititional rights. So me personally, no sweat. Others, not so good.

Now, like any prudent businessman, I always measure costs against benefits to determine what is worthwhile and what isn't. So again, I flip the question: What good has the Patriot Act done me or you? Just give me one specific.

My first guess is that you'll want to say there have been no more terrorist attacks. And I would attribute that to the fact that the President rightly attacked the Taliban regime and dispersed Al-Queda.

So if you can, name specifically one good thing the Patriot Act has accomplished for you or me and then I might even agree that the benefits outwiegh the costs.
 

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In various posts on this forum I have cited numerous instances of people being severely adversely effected by USA-PATRIOT. When I have a moment I will link them up.

I, personally, have been drastically effected by USA-PATRIOT, despite having never been suspected of any terrorist acts, terrorist support, or terrorist financing. I have a hand in a small number of businesses, almost all of which are financial sector enterprises. Under USA-PATRIOT, in just one of those businesses I lost over 5,000 paying clients representing about $ 15,000.00 per month in net cash flow to the company, for the simple reason that their particular cards are no longer legal under USA-PATRIOT. Because the government makes no provision for compensation for such things, my only option would be to spend about $ 100-200k to re-issue new cards which are substandard to the old ones, and cost more to the customer to use due to higher costs of compliance. So, I lost $ 180,000.00 per year in revenue which I can only get back by spending at least $ 100,000.00 up front and then holding my breath that somehow the cardholders won't mind paying more money for less service.

Is that specific enough for you? It's not the only direct effect I have felt from USA-PATRIOT, despite the fact that I am not a terrorist, terrorist funder, terrorist supporter, or have been accused of any of these things.

I'll dig up all of the previous threads on this later.


Phaedrus
 

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Igetp2s - Don't worry about the Libs on these boards. Heck they probably aren't even Americans.

They don't really believe what they say, they just like to get people riled up. We've been at this all day and the best answer we got was because Lander had to pay some extra interest.
icon_biggrin.gif


I just wanted to prove that is isn't the Patriot Act the Libs are pissed about, it's President Bush. I think it's pretty funny stuff!

They are like very impressionable children. They will take what other Libs say for fact instead of asking themselves if it's true.

Plus, they can't be happy about the fact that PRESIDENT BUSH has been so successful. He inherited a recession from the previous administration and has the economy growing at an incredible rate.

Here's to President Bush for another 4 years!!!!
party.gif



KMAN
 

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What Phaedrus fails to mention is that his "business" is a child porn site and the "cards" he uses were issued by Damascus Bank & Trust (A lot of horny Syrians)
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Kman,

Get a clue. I am affected everyday by the Patriot Act and so are all of us. Our forefathers and soldiers did not fight and continue to fight for us so a frickin idiot who couldn't win an election over a dead man could just piss on OUR constitution. It is not mine, it is not yours, it is OURS. And seeing it as such it is a total disgrace to think that one man and his team of wonks telling us constantly, "we need more weapons in this fight" can be allowed to determine what passes for civil liberties and what passes for just casualties of "war". Notice there is no state of war. ASS-croft and Bush and all his neocons can talk their heads off about war, but guess what I didn't hear the frickin news that Congress declared war! Did you??? Gee did I sleep through that? This isn't a time of war, if it was we would have declared it. No this is a time of peace until decided otherwise by the US Congress. That much is clear. Until then ASS-croft and all the idiots running the DOJ today need to work within the confines of all the people that have held his job in the past have lived with. In a true time of DECLARED war there has been predence for making decisions that suspend some civil liberties, but this just doesn't fit the case. Terrorists have ALWAYS been amongst us and the world and this time is no different from the past. They were blowing up planes left and right in the 70s while we were fighting an undeclared war, yet Nixon's people didn't piss on the Constitution. This guy does. So yes that affects me every single day. Thankfully it hasn't affected me to the point where my relatives are sitting in jail for over a year with no trial, where my assets have been stolen because I did business at one time with someone that turned out to be a terrorist, and most of all thankfully my wife hasn't gotten fondled in the airport. No it hasn't been that drastic, but it doesn't need to for me to have the right to call this out as a travesty and disgrace to our great nation. I decide when I am affected by this disgrace, not you. You can go on all you want and say nothing has happened to you, but I am flat out embarassed that we let this happen.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by truthteller:
It's _affected_ not effected.

------------------------------

Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, dear god, thank you ... that was making me nuts.
 

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Phaedrus - I hear you, and if you are telling the truth, and you run a legal business then I am sorry you have lost money.

I am not saying that it hasn't affected anyone, I just want to point out that most of the people on this board have not been affected but still bitch and moan about it.

WildBill - We are in a War! A war on Terrorism. That was established about 2 years ago. I'm sorry you missed it.

I keep hearing all of the stuff about the constitution being pissed on. WELL WHAT PART IS BEING PISSED ON??????????? Like it or not, we are in a new world.

I take it that you are not married and do not have any children...... Well, I would rather get frisked at an airport and know that me and my family are safe than not get frisked and get blown out of the sky. This seems like common since but maybe I am just out of my mind.

KMAN
 

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I think Al Qaeda and their brethren are laughing at us. They got everyone to be afraid, to be fearful of flying...yet they still probably got something up their sleeves that won't be caught by all this frisking. I never felt unsafe about flying and nothing changed after 9/11. In fact I flew c**** country to Boston less than two weeks after the attacks and didn't think twice about it. Fact is that far more people died from the American Airlines accident that happened after 9/11 than died in the 4 planes of 9/11. Most people died on the ground so you would be wise to worry a hell of a lot more about being in a tall building than in a plane don't you think??? I am married and my wife has gone on plenty of planes since then and I think I do fear a lot more of her being publicly embarassed than being blown out of a plane. This administration has done a wonderful job of creating a sense of fear and impending doom in an effort to justify their attempts at pissing on the Constitution. How do they do it...well its quite simple. We have a guarantee of due process here and it has been essentially suspended if the Feds just whisper out "terrorism" or "national security". And no we are not in a war, once again Congress must declare war for that to be true. Undeclared wars are dangerous as they lead to a lot of ambiguity and irrational behavior. If Bush really wants this war, why doesn't he just get Congress to declare it? I don't buy the argument it is not against a sovereign territory, there is no real provision that say it has to be against a country. To say you are at war and use that as an excuse to trample rights is just not proper and ignores the fact that past administrations have found ways to operate within the traditional rules of the offices and most importantly respected the Constitution.
 

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It seems like there is a bunch of misinformation about the Patriot Act out there so I ask one thing for everyone in this thread. Please read the Patriot Act and find the truth out for yourself. Don't just take other people's words. That goes for both Liberals and Conservatives.


Ashcroft: Patriot Act on Parade
Associated Press Page 1 of 1

03:28 PM Aug. 18, 2003 PT

Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit states key to President Bush's re-election to defend the government's use of the antiterrorism USA Patriot Act, which is drawing increased criticism as a threat to civil liberties.

After an opening speech Tuesday at a conservative Washington think tank, Ashcroft will embark on a campaign-style road trip, delivering remarks Wednesday and Thursday to law enforcement audiences in Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit and Des Moines, Iowa.

Among the dozen or so future stops are Salt Lake City and Boston, officials said Monday. The Justice Department is putting up an Internet site on Tuesday to reinforce the pro-Patriot Act message, and all 94 U.S. attorneys are being encouraged to hold town hall-style meetings to stress the law's benefits in fighting terrorism.

"There is a lot of confusion about what the Patriot Act does and does not do," said Mary Beth Buchanan, U.S. attorney in Pittsburgh. "We are going to try to better educate the public."

The central theme is that the Patriot Act deserves a large measure of credit for the failure of terrorists to conduct a major attack on U.S. soil since Sept. 11, 2001. The law was passed by Congress a few weeks after those attacks.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the sales pitch is needed to combat what he called "a small minority that has spread misinformation about these provisions. It's important to talk about the successes we're achieving, to educate the American people and to set the record straight."

Ashcroft will stress the Patriot Act's removal of a barrier that had prevented intelligence agents from sharing information with criminal investigators and prosecutors. Also highlighted will be such provisions as the "roving wiretap" authority that enables investigators to track phones over multiple jurisdictions under a single warrant.

The law and Ashcroft's support of it have become political punching bags for the Democratic presidential candidates and other top party members. Earlier this month, former Vice President Al Gore said in a speech at New York University that the law allows President Bush to "send his assistants into every public library in America and secretly monitor what the rest of us are reading."

Justice officials say that claim is one of many examples of misperceptions about the law. They say that books, documents or other records from any source, including a library, can only be examined by the FBI under the Patriot Act in an international terrorism or intelligence investigation and only with approval of a federal judge.

Still, such perceptions have led to passage of anti-Patriot Act resolutions by legislators in Alaska, Hawaii and Vermont and by more than 142 local governments. The Republican-led House also voted recently to restrict so-called "sneak and peek" searches that allow for delayed notification of the target.

The ACLU insists that these actions show growing concern that the Patriot Act could expose innocent citizens to improper surveillance and searches.

"How often do you see the attorney general go on a sort of a charm offensive?" asked Laura Murphy, director of the ACLU's Washington office. "I see this as a defensive measure on his part. It is a political campaign."

David Rohde, political science professor at Michigan State University, noted that Ashcroft's initial foray takes him through key swing states in the 2004 presidential race: Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio.

The campaign could help prevent the eventual Democratic nominee from using perceptions about the Patriot Act against Bush, Rohde said.

"The hope is that if the Democrats can draw people's attention to things they don't like about the Patriot Act, eventually that will spill over onto President Bush," Rohde said. "The criticism of the Patriot Act is also a way of motivating core Democratic constituencies."

Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo said presidential politics have no bearing on the itinerary and pointed out that Ashcroft has made appearances from coast to coast in support of law enforcement officials fighting the war on terrorism.

"The intent is to keep everyone in law enforcement focused on the No. 1 priority of preventing another terrorist attack," Corallo said.
 

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