I remember back in college 8 years ago or so... dad already knew I was partying a little bit on the wild side, anyway, I'm cranking my music collection at shuffle as I usually do and bam, Clapton's Cocaine banging the walls like it was 1979...
My window used to lead to the main street, so neighbors got most of my noise... anyway I start doing some l's with my window exposed, ol' dad was outside with hose doing the garden, he literally hosed my blow and computer through the window while shouting: "not only you do fucking cocaine under my roof but you gotta play that fucking crackhead song!!!! fuck that shit!!!".
He is more of a Cat Stevens fan.
well said my friend,such a horrible disease which most will never understand
another post right on the money,you have to want to quit for yourself and for no one else,....if you think an alcoholic is someone who brown bags it,lives under a bridge,etc ...your wrong,its much more serious than that,alcohol kills more people and ruins more families than anything.....don't miss it one bit
Well I did smoke for over 20 years and it was hard as hell to quit but I did it, and have been cig free for over 8 years, so it's not like I can't relate to addiction. I've actually conquered it. I don't buy the whole disease thing, nor step programs, if that's works for you fine. Some people believe in psychics, and they really make them feel better, that doesn't mean it's not bullshit. Of all my friends that had problems with drinking, there was always another underlying problem they were over medicating for. One lost a family member and just went off deep end with drinking, another friend came back from Iraq and also went to the extreme on alcohol. I've seen nothing that proves it's a disease, there's no blood work you get back that tells you, you have the alcoholics. Alcohol starts off like most addictions, overly medicating for something, that turns into a physical addiction the body can't be without.
Smoking and drinking are nothing alike. And not all alcoholics are self-medicating through some other trauma. I could tell you my whole story but that's maybe for another day, suffice it to say everything in my life was very normal; no "underlying issues".
You are entitled to your (horribly ignorant and misguided) opinions though. All good.
Ha nice backhand. The facts on addiction, are that the body becomes dependent on it. You know like the with drawls you get, when you try to quit cold turkey with alcohol, cigarettes, heroin. The with drawls are very real and a medical fact the other part is mental.
Maybe it is possibly a disease, some do believe that, but it's not a medical fact. Not believing alcohol to be a disease, doesn't make me (horribly ignorant and misguided) it just makes me a skeptic.
Comparing people that believe alcoholism is a disease (which IS a widely accepted medical fact) to people that believe in psychics is pretty insulting to someone who's life (or the life a close loved one) has been devastated by this. And so is claiming you "conquered" your addiction to cigarettes. LOL. All props on quitting but you are comparing a nail file to a sword with that one.
Just so you know where I'm coming from and why you sensed irritation.
Wrong it's a widely accepted theory that has never been proven. And it's accepted for political reasons. Do the research. Many studies have been done that call the theory into question. Many studies have been done where once those that have been winged off of their physical dependency, were able to go back to moderation. Many people have also been able to quit with out AA or seeing a doctor.
I hate the disease theory because it absolves people of personal responsibility. It's an excuse not to stop drinking. How can we charge people for DUI's, it's not their fault, it's medical disease. The doctor that came up with the disease theory in the 1800's, did for political reasons of prohibition. The same Doctor also theorized that being black was a disease.
I'm not saying alcoholism doesn't fuck up people's life, my grandfather died because of it, and never got to know me or my father because of it. Gambling fucks up peoples life's too, so does heroin, and cocaine. Sorry if you took it as me belittling alcoholism, because I'm not, I'm belittling the disease theory which is based on junk science, and deserves to be ridiculed.
Look at diseases like Cancer and AIDS, and all the advancements we've made in treatment, yet alcoholism we still use the same bullshit 12 steps, that sound more like religion than a science.
Look at diseases like Cancer and AIDS, and all the advancements we've made in treatment, yet alcoholism we still use the same bullshit 12 steps, that sound more like religion than a science.
OK I don't want to argue over semantics. Bottom line is I feel that I am physically different from a non-alcoholic. You don't have to agree.
Understood what you're saying about personal responsibility. To me I view it like a disease that must be treated. It's like diabetes. There is still personal responsibility there. I won't feel bad for you if you have fallout from your unchecked diabetes if you won't exercise, change your diet, or take your meds. Likewise I don't have sympathy for the active alcoholic...I understand their plight but I don't feel bad.
I think you are both right because addiction AFFECTS EVERYONE DIFFERENTLY, and so do chemicals.
Not only from a psychologist perspective (almost got a PhD) but an addict perspective I assure you maybe for RenoChazz cigarette addiction was as heavy as cracker Tom crack's addiction. And I believe Harry's perspective is right as well 'cause I feel where he is coming from and I actually agree more with his POV.
Truth is, everyone's opinion on your problems is bullshit 'cause in the end what people usually do is sympathize not empathize.
Not only from a psychologist perspective (almost got a PhD) but an addict perspective I assure you maybe for RenoChazz cigarette addiction was as heavy as cracker Tom crack's addiction. And I believe Harry's perspective is right as well 'cause I feel where he is coming from and I actually agree more with his POV.
Truth is, everyone's opinion on your problems is bullshit 'cause in the end what people usually do is sympathize not empathize.
All good, you're actually one of my favorite posters here. We all have our personal experiences so sorry if come on little strong too.
My best friend is an Alcoholic, he was down in the dumps, I paid for his travel and his wife's travel from L.A., let them live in my house, got him a job. He ended up drinking again, and eventually lost the job I got him. When my wife was packing up his stuff she found about a hundred stolen credit cards. Him and his wife were stealing credit cards and putting them on to gift cards. I didn't rat him out but I turned my back on him forever. He tried to contact me on facebook a couple years later saying he was sorry, blaming the whole thing on his disease, that it's not really who he is. I get a little worked up thinking about it being a disease, and not a vice.
Man, you have every right to have your opinion as is.... this story of your best friend actually makes total sense you get worked up when people use the disease term as an excuse.
Your buddy needs to grow some balls, he was stealing because he was a fucking coward and a bum. You do this things out of desperation for a sickness? No man. You would do them if you weren't an alcoholic anyway. Yeah people change and maybe he felt it wasn't like him to do that but more often than not is an act.
The fact addiction is a disease doesn't take away the fact that a lot of addicts are assholes or irresponsible in some kind of way. A lot of talented people engulf in vices and yet act as an honorable human beings while having a job or whatever. Some people get defeated, some want to be defeated and don't care what values and friends or family are around when everything comes down.
Reno brought up a very good point (question)-
How is it possible to get convict for OUI if you stand before a judge and say you have a disease? "Your honor, by the time I drank my 8th shot, I was too impaired to use judgement about operating a mother vehicle"
Now, if I'm a diabetic and eat a lot of candy, get in my vehicle, go into shock and crash my car off the road into a ditch, I won't be charged criminally. I won't have to take out special insurance against my drivers license. "Your honor, I ate too much birthday cake, forgot to monitor by sugar level in my blood and drove."
Which one of these people has a criminal conviction?
How is it possible to get convict for OUI if you stand before a judge and say you have a disease? "Your honor, by the time I drank my 8th shot, I was too impaired to use judgement about operating a mother vehicle"
Now, if I'm a diabetic and eat a lot of candy, get in my vehicle, go into shock and crash my car off the road into a ditch, I won't be charged criminally. I won't have to take out special insurance against my drivers license. "Your honor, I ate too much birthday cake, forgot to monitor by sugar level in my blood and drove."
Which one of these people has a criminal conviction?
Let's make a distinction here between active (drinking) and inactive (sober) alcoholics.
Both suffer from the disease.
Only one suffers from what you are portraying as a "weak will" (although I wouldn't use those words).
I haven't had a drink in almost 2 years and I am still alcoholic. I still think and obsess about booze. I know if I had one drink I would not be able to stop - partly due to some psychological defect and partly due to the fact that I am physiologically "different".
The plain fact of the matter is that it's a beast of an affliction - no matter what you choose to call it - and it's just stronger than some people. It overwhelms them...it's too much. It's a deadly combination of the two factors: I fucking love to be drunk because the effects it on my pleasure centers are different and stronger than yours, and I have a physical "allergy" whereby my body reacts differently than yours and literally one drink will give me withdrawals.
So simply explaining it away as a lack of willpower is just wrong IMO.
Both suffer from the disease.
Only one suffers from what you are portraying as a "weak will" (although I wouldn't use those words).
I haven't had a drink in almost 2 years and I am still alcoholic. I still think and obsess about booze. I know if I had one drink I would not be able to stop - partly due to some psychological defect and partly due to the fact that I am physiologically "different".
The plain fact of the matter is that it's a beast of an affliction - no matter what you choose to call it - and it's just stronger than some people. It overwhelms them...it's too much. It's a deadly combination of the two factors: I fucking love to be drunk because the effects it on my pleasure centers are different and stronger than yours, and I have a physical "allergy" whereby my body reacts differently than yours and literally one drink will give me withdrawals.
So simply explaining it away as a lack of willpower is just wrong IMO.
