How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God

[CHOPTALK]

I believe that God reveals himself to all people that are mentally capable. Ravi Zacharias is the most solid Biblical teacher and philosopher I know of. He has had many encounters with Muslims that later came to Christ. One guy said he dreamed of Jesus every night for 7 years, and then finally understood what the dreams meant. Just as those of us raised in Christian homes who later doubt if anything is real, those raised in Muslim and Buddhist homes also reach an age where they have to ask themselves what is the real truth. If God was a beer drinking partier sitting on the clouds that let everyone in that wasn't a murderer, would that be a god you would worship? God is Holy and perfect, and worthy of worship. Who am I to question who he gives mercy to and who he gives justice to? I know that I am guilty, and if went before the holiness of God, I would be even more convicted of my own wickedness.

It is fantasy land to believe that every person who has ever lived has been exposed to Jesus at least once in there life.
So what if missionary workers go to 3rd world lands to preach the gospel.

That reduces the percentage of people who have never heard of Jesus from 100% to 98%.

I have no doubt that there are examples of people that live in some of the most ungodly places on Earth somehow found a way to have the word of God revealed to them.

But there have been billions of people who were born and died who never heard the word Jesus one single time in the history of there life.
I have a really hard time believing that those people are burning right now.

And lastly the Bible talks about people are only accountable for what they know.
This is my defense when it comes to my belief that if you never heard of Jesus you dont go to hell.

To whom much is given much is required.

Luke 12:48
But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

That Bible clearly states you are only accountable for what you know.
Its all over the place.

Every single time the Bible talks about someone going to hell if they dont confess it was in a Christian setting.

It was either Jesus speaking to his disciples, or it was Paul speaking to the Church.

In both cases all the people being spoken to in those verses knew better, so they were accountable and those people those verses applied to.

A lot of sayings in the Bible you have to account for the setting and who was being spoken to.

 

[DesertDevil]

It is fantasy land to believe that every person who has ever lived has been exposed to Jesus at least once in there life.

Agree 100%. They might have heard the name, but did they hear the Gospel?

 

[CHOPTALK]

Agree 100%. They might have heard the name, but did they hear the Gospel?

There have been billions who have not even heard the name, much less the gospel.

You are only accountable for what you know.
Its in the Bible.

All over the place.

 

[Illini]

It is fantasy land to believe that every person who has ever lived has been exposed to Jesus at least once in there life.
So what if missionary workers go to 3rd world lands to preach the gospel.

That reduces the percentage of people who have never heard of Jesus from 100% to 98%.

I have no doubt that there are examples of people that live in some of the most ungodly places on Earth somehow found a way to have the word of God revealed to them.

But there have been billions of people who were born and died who never heard the word Jesus one single time in the history of there life.
I have a really hard time believing that those people are burning right now.

And lastly the Bible talks about people are only accountable for what they know.
This is my defense when it comes to my belief that if you never heard of Jesus you dont go to hell.

To whom much is given much is required.

Luke 12:48
But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

That Bible clearly states you are only accountable for what you know.
Its all over the place.

Every single time the Bible talks about someone going to hell if they dont confess it was in a Christian setting.

It was either Jesus speaking to his disciples, or it was Paul speaking to the Church.

In both cases all the people being spoken to in those verses knew better, so they were accountable and those people those verses applied to.

A lot of sayings in the Bible you have to account for the setting and who was being spoken to.

I point to Cornelius. Remember him? He was a God fearer and God later revealed himself. I also trust in the sovereignty of God. God isn't in heaven hoping people will tell other people about him. God is the author of salvation and his plans cannot be thwarted. God is sovereign over all things, including salvation. It's all in his hands.

 

[Illini]

There have been billions who have not even heard the name, much less the gospel.

You are only accountable for what you know.
Its in the Bible.

All over the place.

That saying is not in the Bible one time. Romans 1 addresses everything you are saying.

 

[DesertDevil]

To whom much is given much is required.

Luke 12:48
But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

Amen. To say every single man ever born suffers only one of two fates: Heaven / Or eternal burning/weeping/gnashing of teeth is false. I will never believe that. This verse brings peace Choptalk. I havent come across it in awhile. Thx for posting.

 

[CHOPTALK]

That saying is not in the Bible one time. Romans 1 addresses everything you are saying.

Not so

 

[DesertDevil]

Butchered the quote feature. Let me try that again...

 

[Illini]

The Biblical picture is that hell is a place of justice. It is where everyone that has lived deserves to be. Nobody goes there unjustly. And nobody gets into heaven because they deserve to be there. It is all undeserved grace and mercy.

It took me 10 years to accept this, and I still struggle with it at times.

 

[Illini]

Amen. To say every single man ever born suffers only one of two fates: Heaven / Or eternal burning/weeping/gnashing of teeth is false. I will never believe that. This verse brings peace Choptalk. I havent come across it in awhile. Thx for posting.

There will be different levels of hell. Hitler is not going to have to same punishment as Joe Good Guy Red Sox Fan that doesn't know Christ. This verse doesn't say the non-hearing unbeliever gets to go to heaven. In fact, it says the opposite.....that he will be punished.

 

[CHOPTALK]

That saying is not in the Bible one time. Romans 1 addresses everything you are saying.

The bible has many references about only being accountable for what you know.
Once again in Romans 1 Paul was speaking to the Church.

So when Paul makes the statement that you have to confess Jesus as your savior those words were 100% true to the people he was speaking to.

Im not saying that the verses in the bible that saying confess to get into Heaven are not true. I believe that to be true for me and you because me and you have been exposed to the Gospel. Me and you are accountable and me and you have no excuse.

I am talking about the billions of people who have not been exposed.

There are many places in the word that says you are only accountable for what you know.

 

[CHOPTALK]

There will be different levels of hell. Hitler is not going to have to same punishment as Joe Good Guy Red Sox Fan that doesn't know Christ.

Illini 3:16

 

[Illini]

Illini 3:16

No it's the verse that you just quoted.

 

[DesertDevil]

There have been billions who have not even heard the name, much less the gospel.

Agreed. Although I cant put an exact number or say its in the "billions".

Fixed...

 

[Illini]

The bible has many references about only being accountable for what you know.
Once again in Romans 1 Paul was speaking to the Church.

So when Paul makes the statement that you have to confess Jesus as your savior those words were 100% true to the people he was speaking to.

Im not saying that the verses in the bible that saying confess to get into Heaven are not true. I believe that to be true for me and you because me and you have been exposed to the Gospel. Me and you are accountable and me and you have no excuse.

I am talking about the billions of people who have not been exposed.

There are many places in the word that says you are only accountable for what you know.

Read Romans 1 again. I guarantee you can't think Paul was talking about the church. Guarantee.

 

[CHOPTALK]

That saying is not in the Bible one time. Romans 1 addresses everything you are saying.

Looks like you are going to force me to break out the old concordance.
Stay tuned.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Read Romans 1 again. I guarantee you can't think Paul was talking about the church. Guarantee.

Paul was not talking about the church in those verses, but he was talking to the church about people who have been exposed to the Gospel.

He was speaking about people who have heard the gospel and then rejected the gospel.

I think you think that I am saying that there is no Hell.
I am not saying that at all.

All I am saying is Hell is reserved for people that have been exposed to the Word of God and rejected it.

The People that Paul spoke of that God turned over to a reprobate mind are people that have heard his word and rejected him.
I am very familiar with Romans 1.

I did not even have to open a Bible to remember that scripture.

 

[Illini]

Paul was not talking about the church in those verses, but he was talking to the church about people who have been exposed to the Gospel.

He was speaking about people who have heard the gospel and then rejected the gospel.

I think you think that I am saying that there is no Hell.
I am not saying that at all.

All I am saying is Hell is reserved for people that have been exposed to the Word of God and rejected it.

The People that Paul spoke of that God turned over to a reprobate mind are people that have heard his word and rejected him.
I am very familiar with Romans 1.

I did not even have to open a Bible to remember that scripture.

God says that he has revealed himself by his invisible qualities, not by Paul preaching to people.

 

[Illini]

There is honestly no reason to continue this discussion. We are free to disagree. Nobody's convictions are going to line up 100%.

 

[festeringZit]

Paul was not talking about the church in those verses, but he was talking to the church about people who have been exposed to the Gospel.

He was speaking about people who have heard the gospel and then rejected the gospel.

I think you think that I am saying that there is no Hell.
I am not saying that at all.

All I am saying is Hell is reserved for people that have been exposed to the Word of God and rejected it.

The People that Paul spoke of that God turned over to a reprobate mind are people that have heard his word and rejected him.
I am very familiar with Romans 1.

I did not even have to open a Bible to remember that scripture.

Romans 3:23 For *all* have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God.

What sinner is going to be able to stand before God without Christ's blood having been shed for them?