I would encourage you as a free person living in a free country to go to cuba for your next health care needs. Feel free to say there as well,and report back here in 5 or 10 years how you like it. One of the great myths about health care is that everyone should have health insurance. Many young healthy people have no need for insurance and spending their money to buy it would be foolish and only serve to subsidise the system as a whole.
Nationalized healthcare would become a joke. Either taxes would go waaaay up in order to compensate the doctors, or all the best and brighest doctors would end up in private practice anyway. No potential doctor is gonna take out over 100k worth of school loans and not make more than 50k until they're about 30 if they're not gonna make close to what doctors are making today.
In addtion I was told somewhere (not 100% sure this is true though) that in European contries with nationalized heathcare they don't do inteventional surgeries like a coronary artery bypass graft for patients over the age of 65, even though the surgery is a common procedure with a good success rate and can prolong that patients life by a number of years.
If you want to make healthcare affordable, put a cap on the amount people can get from bullshit malpractice lawsuits. That in turn will lower insurance premiums for doctors and the savings can be passed on down the line.
In addtion I was told somewhere (not 100% sure this is true though) that in European contries with nationalized heathcare they don't do inteventional surgeries like a coronary artery bypass graft for patients over the age of 65, even though the surgery is a common procedure with a good success rate and can prolong that patients life by a number of years.
If you want to make healthcare affordable, put a cap on the amount people can get from bullshit malpractice lawsuits. That in turn will lower insurance premiums for doctors and the savings can be passed on down the line.
It won't happen any time soon. The lobbies for the pharma companies and other related medical companies are too powerful to get anything like this passed.
Moore said that Hillary tried to get this passed when Bill was President. Now she is receiving PAC money from these companies so she votes against it.
Moore said that Hillary tried to get this passed when Bill was President. Now she is receiving PAC money from these companies so she votes against it.
"I like it", especially if somebody else has to pay for it. That's the real American dream.
I wouldn't trade the health care that I've received in Nevada over anything.
With that being said, any guesses on how we explain all these countries having lower infant mortality rates and higher life expectancy rates than us? I know places like France have supposodly better diets (how I have no idea) - but shouldn't that be evened out by their supposed train wrecks of health care systems?
(From the CIA Factbook)
France
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.26 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 4.76 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 3.73 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.6 years
male: 75.96 years
female: 83.42 years (2005 est.)
UK
Infant mortality rate:
total: 5.16 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.76 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.53 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 78.38 years
male: 75.94 years
female: 80.96 years (2005 est.)
Canada
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.75 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.21 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.27 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 80.1 years
male: 76.73 years
female: 83.63 years (2005 est.)
United States
Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.5 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.17 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.8 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 77.71 years
male: 74.89 years
female: 80.67 years (2005 est.)
With that being said, any guesses on how we explain all these countries having lower infant mortality rates and higher life expectancy rates than us? I know places like France have supposodly better diets (how I have no idea) - but shouldn't that be evened out by their supposed train wrecks of health care systems?
(From the CIA Factbook)
France
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.26 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 4.76 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 3.73 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.6 years
male: 75.96 years
female: 83.42 years (2005 est.)
UK
Infant mortality rate:
total: 5.16 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.76 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.53 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 78.38 years
male: 75.94 years
female: 80.96 years (2005 est.)
Canada
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.75 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.21 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.27 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 80.1 years
male: 76.73 years
female: 83.63 years (2005 est.)
United States
Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.5 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.17 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.8 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 77.71 years
male: 74.89 years
female: 80.67 years (2005 est.)
ktv
The infant mortality rate discrepancies are caused by different methodologies in reporting stillborn babies. In America, if the baby takes so much as a single breath, it is considered alive, and from there if it dies it's a dead infant. The Euro standards are much different from what I understand.
Life expectancy might be the result of something crazy like lifestyle choices ... Americans on the whole do everything to excess as long as it isn't healthy.
In either case, the statistics say next to nothing about the quality of the medical systems being compared (mind you, I think America has the worst health care system in the world; just not convinced by these particular data.)
Phaedrus
The infant mortality rate discrepancies are caused by different methodologies in reporting stillborn babies. In America, if the baby takes so much as a single breath, it is considered alive, and from there if it dies it's a dead infant. The Euro standards are much different from what I understand.
Life expectancy might be the result of something crazy like lifestyle choices ... Americans on the whole do everything to excess as long as it isn't healthy.
In either case, the statistics say next to nothing about the quality of the medical systems being compared (mind you, I think America has the worst health care system in the world; just not convinced by these particular data.)
Phaedrus
I watched SiCKO (online) last night. It's unfortunate that the "Hate Moore" crowd won't even give it a watch since they've already been given the orders that Moore is just a political scam artist etc.
There are moments in each of his films which I find capture the eseence of America (and the current divisions) better than anything out there.
In F911 - the scene where the grieving mother is essentially called a liar and asked for proof that her son died in Iraq. To me, the fact that we live in an age where someone would have the fucking nerve to chastise a grieving mom was stunning.
In Sicko - Moore definitely tries to make a case for Canadian or Euro health systems, but it doesn't change the fact that some of the things he points out about ours should be ignored. Am I the only person here who has seen someone in real life absolutely jerked around by an HMO? Was it not stunning to see how much the Rx and health lobbies pay politicans from both sides?
Instead, we have instant apologists for companies that couldn't care one bit of you died tomorrow. The same companies which only answer to those people whom they just donated money to.
Ironic that in an age where we're just a few years past having being spoon fed a meal of lies to get us into a trillion dollar war, that people get more upset because a movie claims itself to be a "documentary" instead of a "point of view look at".
There are moments in each of his films which I find capture the eseence of America (and the current divisions) better than anything out there.
In F911 - the scene where the grieving mother is essentially called a liar and asked for proof that her son died in Iraq. To me, the fact that we live in an age where someone would have the fucking nerve to chastise a grieving mom was stunning.
In Sicko - Moore definitely tries to make a case for Canadian or Euro health systems, but it doesn't change the fact that some of the things he points out about ours should be ignored. Am I the only person here who has seen someone in real life absolutely jerked around by an HMO? Was it not stunning to see how much the Rx and health lobbies pay politicans from both sides?
Instead, we have instant apologists for companies that couldn't care one bit of you died tomorrow. The same companies which only answer to those people whom they just donated money to.
Ironic that in an age where we're just a few years past having being spoon fed a meal of lies to get us into a trillion dollar war, that people get more upset because a movie claims itself to be a "documentary" instead of a "point of view look at".
When I studied this, the same standards were used for the US, Canada, England and other Western countries. I'd like to see where you get your understanding on Euro Standards.
Perhaps - but it does seem odd that these systems which are almost unanimously considered inferior still manage to surround themselves with patients that outlive us.
I've seen every Moore Movie even read "Dude where my Country". Hell I even remember his TV show that ran for like 8 Episodes.
I found Roger and Me pretty entertaining, but think his stuff has gotten progressively worse, but I'll give this one a shot.
Ya really gotta read up on the stuff he says though as his "facts" are often misleading and at times flat out wrong.
I found Roger and Me pretty entertaining, but think his stuff has gotten progressively worse, but I'll give this one a shot.
Ya really gotta read up on the stuff he says though as his "facts" are often misleading and at times flat out wrong.
