Got to respect Shawn Green from the Dodgers

Search

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
75,154
Tokens
Shawn Green anguished over the same conflict that confronted Hall of Famers Sandy Koufax and Hank Greenberg.



The game or the synagogue? Play or pray?

In Green's case, he was torn about missing two critical games for the Los Angeles Dodgers against the San Francisco Giants on the holiest of the Jewish High Holy Days, Yom Kippur, from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

Should he play one game and abstain from the other, seeking a compromise in his commitments to his team and his faith?

Should he play both games or attend services, fast and refrain from work in solemn observance of The Day of Atonement?

Would he be criticized one way or another? No doubt, but he had to answer only to himself.

Green struggled with the quandary, bouncing back and forth, trying to do ''the right thing'' without knowing for sure what that was. On Thursday, he made his decision: Play Friday night, sit Saturday.

''Playing one of the two is the most consistent with my beliefs as a Jewish person,'' Green said before Los Angeles played San Diego. The Dodgers' NL West lead over San Francisco had shrunk the night before to a half-game.

''I'm not orthodox. I am Jewish and I respect the custom,'' Green said. ''I feel this is the most consistent way to celebrate the holiday. I feel real good about my decision.''

Dodgers owner Frank McCourt said Green had the support of the team, no matter what he decided to do.

To play or not to play on Yom Kippur is a personal decision for a Jewish ballplayer that can have a larger impact away from the field.

''It strikes a chord with each one of us who has to wonder, 'What do I do in this situation? Do I go to work? Am I going to observe my faith in a very visible way? Or do I just go with the flow?''' said Rabbi David Fine, Pacific Northwest regional director for the Union for Reform Judaism.

Koufax and Greenberg won the everlasting affection of American Jews, and the respect of many non-Jews, by observing Yom Kippur rather than playing in big games Koufax in the 1965 World Series as pitching ace of the Dodgers, Greenberg in the 1934 pennant race as the home run slugger for the Detroit Tigers.

''It's not quite a profile in courage, but it's still a courageous stand,'' said Fine, who grew up in Detroit hearing about Greenberg long after the last of his 331 home runs and his 58 in 1938. ''It's when baseball players really become heroes in the eyes of those of us who watch them. It's when they go beyond good players to being real examples and role models.''

Koufax didn't pitch in Game 1 of the '65 Series against the Twins. Don Drysdale pitched that day and gave up seven runs in 2 2-3 innings. When manager Walter Alston came out to pull him from the game, Drysdale cracked, ''I bet right now you wish I was Jewish, too.''

Greenberg wrestled with whether to play on Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year. He spoke to his rabbi about it, got a dispensation to play, and hit two homers that day. The Detroit Free Press ran a banner headline, in Hebrew, that read: ''Happy New Year, Hank.''

On Yom Kippur, the pennant not quite clinched, Greenberg sat.

''Greenberg's decision electrified the American Jewish community, and generations of people remember that with incredible pride,'' said Martin Abramowitz, who recently helped the Hall of Fame organize ''A celebration of Jews in baseball.''

The world has changed in 70 years Green doesn't have to face the same anti-Semitism that Greenberg did. But the issues are the same and it's still a matter of a man examining his principles and conscience.

''Greenberg's choice (was) how to balance loyalty to parents, religion, and tradition with commitment to his American profession and his desire to fully participate in American life,'' historian Peter Levine wrote.

Sitting out on Yom Kippur made Greenberg a model for second-generation Jews struggling with similar issues at work.

Green, who sat out on Yom Kippur three years ago and ended a streak of 415 consecutive games played, is making an impact even as he considers doing it again in a more crucial situation for his team.

''In some ways it's a contribution not only to the American Jewish community but to America to have the spotlight on someone who is publicly responding to a question of his religious obligation,'' Abramowitz said. ''That in itself is a gift for us all.''

Green has 27 homers this season and is the most accomplished of 10 active Jewish players. He was among the 143 ballplayers honored at the Hall of Fame celebration. Another, former Oakland pitcher Ken Holtzman, told of his refusal to dress for a game on Yom Kippur in the 1973 playoffs against Baltimore.

He was surprised when a limousine arrived at his Baltimore hotel on Yom Kippur morning to whisk him to a synagogue, where he was escorted to the front row and welcomed by Orioles owner Jerry Hoffberger.

Holtzman must have found some blessings because he won the next game 2-1 with a three-hitter over 11 innings.

Ron Blomberg, who won trivia fame by becoming the first designated hitter, was also among the Jewish players celebrated by the Hall. In 1971 at Yankee Stadium against Cleveland, he, too, chose to sit out on Yom Kippur and became known as ''the Sundown Kid.''

''It was ... nearing sundown at home, tie game, two outs in the bottom of the ninth with a man on third base,'' Blomberg told the Long Island Press. ''I'm up. If I don't do it, we go past sundown, and if we go past sundown, I'm going to have to leave. I hit a single to center field and we won the game. From that day on I was idolized by every Jew in the city.''



Steve Wilstein is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at swilstein(at)ap.org

</WIRE_BODY>
<!--END MAIN CONTENT-->
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
117
Tokens
These J-ws Will Do Anything For A Day Off With Pay What The F-ck I Would Be Layed Off In My Trade If I Told My Boss I Want To Take St.patricks Day Off Not Only Because Its My Birthday But Its An Irish Holiday What Up With This Play Ball And Pray Later When The Sun Goes Down.whats Next The African Americans Taking Off 365 Days A Year Claiming The White Dudes Brought Me Over Against My Will I Want Compensation.where Do We Draw The Line You Have A Job To Do Then Do It And Stop The Bullsh-t.

Jesus Saves,and Esposito Scores On The Rebound
 

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2003
Messages
2,002
Tokens
Is he giving back that part of his salary? I don't respect Shawn Green for this at all.
 

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Messages
4,398
Tokens
''Playing one of the two is the most consistent with my beliefs as a Jewish person,'' Green said before Los Angeles played San Diego. The Dodgers' NL West lead over San Francisco had shrunk the night before to a half-game

I am just confused by this statement,he is being inconsistent by just sitting out one of two and not both.I am not jewish so I can't really speak to it but is Friday Sundown anymore important, or less then Saturday?

I would have respected him more if he either took both days off or no days. Second, the article says he did this several years ago, why this year is it important but not last? I don't know this guy so I probably shouldn't be commenting on it but the timing is a little strange, the last 3 years when nobody would have cared if he took the days off he played, this year they are in a race and all the sudden it is important for him. Maybe he had a religious awakening in the last year,but it does smell of someone trying to draw attention to himself and his religion.
 

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 1999
Messages
75,444
Tokens
Please note-- Sandy Koufax missed the 1st game of the WORLD SERIES because of the same beliefs.
 

J-Man Rx NFL Pick 4 Champion for 2005
Joined
Apr 20, 2001
Messages
9,231
Tokens
I'm not a Dodger fan, so I think He is doing the correct thing and He really should sit out the entire series !
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,447
Tokens
as a jew i cant blame non-jews for not getting it. First off, most people from all religions aren't very religious. The fact that other players continue to play on christmas and other christian holy days doesnt help the situation.

what people dont get about yom kippur is that it is not a holiday like christmas or hanukkah (for jews). It is not a day spent with family watching TV and eating turkey. as a matter of fact shawn green played last week when it was the jewish new year (another big jewish holiday).

there are muslim basketball players that fast (during the day) during the basketball season for their religion. Maybe it effects their play, maybe it doesn't. But can we tell them they MUST eat. That is why we all live in america in the first place. Freedom of religion obviously doesn't mean much to these people that give green a hard time.
 

"I like ketchup. It's like tomato wine."
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
10,015
Tokens
primetime21 said:
as a jew i cant blame non-jews for not getting it. First off, most people from all religions aren't very religious. The fact that other players continue to play on christmas and other christian holy days doesnt help the situation.

what people dont get about yom kippur is that it is not a holiday like christmas or hanukkah (for jews). It is not a day spent with family watching TV and eating turkey. as a matter of fact shawn green played last week when it was the jewish new year (another big jewish holiday).

there are muslim basketball players that fast (during the day) during the basketball season for their religion. Maybe it effects their play, maybe it doesn't. But can we tell them they MUST eat. That is why we all live in america in the first place. Freedom of religion obviously doesn't mean much to these people that give green a hard time.
I get the holiday. The fact of the matter is, if he's that religious he shouldn't have taken a job which doesn't take off for holidays. He makes $15,666,667 this year!!!! I don't feel sorry for him. He should have made it a stipulation in his contract before hand that he doesn't play on certain days.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,128
Tokens
Good point Unabomber. I wonder if he was in another field would he make the same decision. Skipping an important business deal that could bring you and your partners success as well as lots of money would not be unacceptable in any career. Considering whats at stake($) for his family and teamates (co-workers) I think God would understand.
 

RX Senior
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
47,431
Tokens
ok, i was being an ass clown in my other posts in this thread. but my real opinion is similar to UNA's. he knew ahead of time that is his relegion, he is just being an attention whore. throw in the money, and it makes it that much worse to me. i respect shawn observing, i dont respect the way he is going about it. if he were a first year or second year player we wouldnt hear anything about this becuase he is still trying to make a name for himself. but now hes got chips, so he figures he'll make this a media deal.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,447
Tokens
unabomber said:
I get the holiday. The fact of the matter is, if he's that religious he shouldn't have taken a job which doesn't take off for holidays. He makes $15,666,667 this year!!!! I don't feel sorry for him. He should have made it a stipulation in his contract before hand that he doesn't play on certain days.
you obviously know nothing of the situation, so let me fill you in. this is NOT the first time he has taken off for yom kippur. The dodgers know VERY well that he takes off each year for the holiday. I remember him doing it the last few years. No one said a word back then because the dodgers suck.

The fact is that the dodgers brought green in to appeal to the jews in LA area. They have made tons of money off of his being jewish and have not said a word to suggest that they are opposed to him taking off. THEY pay his check and not you. If they have a problem they should say something.

If fans are upset, they have a right to be upset. Dont buy his jersey, but that doesnt mean he can't take off for the holiday.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
117
Tokens
Hey Prime Time Maybe You Can Enlighten Us To Exactly What Jews Do During This Holy Day You Never Said.i'll Bet They All Sit Around Counting There Dough All Day And Make Irish Jokes.

Jesus Saves,and Esposito Scores On The Rebound
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,447
Tokens
DickyW said:
Good point Unabomber. I wonder if he was in another field would he make the same decision. Skipping an important business deal that could bring you and your partners success as well as lots of money would not be unacceptable in any career. Considering whats at stake($) for his family and teamates (co-workers) I think God would understand.
what theoligic institute did you go to? and when did any of us determine that we have a right to tell someone how to practice their religion? I believe freedom of religion is part of what makes this country so great.

Do you know what yom kippur is about? you think he will be home watching TV and drinking beers with his family? personally i take off for the holiday every year and spend all day fasting and in synagogue. I would MUCH rather be work and i am sure he would much rather play the games. But to some people religion is more important than a baseball game. if you dont, that is fine. But who are you to tell shawn green what to do.

Have you heard his teammates complain? have you heard dodgers managment complain? If they arent saying anything who are any of us to complain.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,447
Tokens
BEANTOWN JIM said:
Hey Prime Time Maybe You Can Enlighten Us To Exactly What Jews Do During This Holy Day You Never Said.i'll Bet They All Sit Around Counting There Dough All Day And Make Irish Jokes.

Jesus Saves,and Esposito Scores On The Rebound
actually touching money on yom kippur is forbidden. So we all spend the following day at the banks splitting up the billions of dollars we make by controlling the media.:rolleyes:

everyone practices differently. Theo epstein is jewish and he will be at the red sox game and so will gabe kapler. But for those that observe they are forbidden from working, driving, writing or watching television and must fast the entire day. they also must spend approximately 13 hours in synagogue over the 25 hour period. Its not a vacation.

personally, i work for someone who is irish and we make fun of each other and the stereotypes on a daily basis. No one is saying that we should take ourselves seriously, just that we should respect each others decisions even if it impacts a playoff race.
 

"I like ketchup. It's like tomato wine."
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
10,015
Tokens
primetime21 said:
you obviously know nothing of the situation, so let me fill you in. this is NOT the first time he has taken off for yom kippur. The dodgers know VERY well that he takes off each year for the holiday. I remember him doing it the last few years. No one said a word back then because the dodgers suck.

The fact is that the dodgers brought green in to appeal to the jews in LA area. They have made tons of money off of his being jewish and have not said a word to suggest that they are opposed to him taking off. THEY pay his check and not you. If they have a problem they should say something.

If fans are upset, they have a right to be upset. Dont buy his jersey, but that doesnt mean he can't take off for the holiday.
Are you insane?? They brought him in to appeal to the jews in LA????? Where did you get that crap from? Yankees brought in Sheffield to appeal to the blacks in NY while you're at it.

By the way, you're right when you said in the past it didn't matter if he sat or not for the holiday.......NOW IT DOES!

Should he give back the $108,000 he's getting paid for that game???
 

"I like ketchup. It's like tomato wine."
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
10,015
Tokens
michael777 said:
of course he should give it back
Of course. But he hasn't done it past years and won't do it now. Real stand up guy.
 

Banned
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
80,046
Tokens
He should play...God will understand...I'm not Jewish but I think I would play, his team needs him, he is being paid to play....Just shows Green is selfish , what will happen if he plays, I don't get it....
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,447
Tokens
unabomber said:
Are you insane?? They brought him in to appeal to the jews in LA????? Where did you get that crap from? Yankees brought in Sheffield to appeal to the blacks in NY while you're at it.

By the way, you're right when you said in the past it didn't matter if he sat or not for the holiday.......NOW IT DOES!

Should he give back the $108,000 he's getting paid for that game???
yes, i heard that when they got him that was part of the reasoning. much like when the yankees got matsui. Do you really believe that owners don't think like that? It makes perfect sense and there would be nothing wrong with it.

SHould he give the money back? if the dodgers want it back, why not.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,120,953
Messages
13,589,298
Members
101,022
Latest member
captainjohn2039r
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com