False Fears About Iran

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The Iranian Threat to New York City - Mitchell D. Silber (Wall Street Journal)


  • On Monday, Israeli embassy workers in the capital cities of India and Georgia were targeted in terrorist attacks that Israeli officials believe were planned and carried out by Iran and its client, the militant group Hizbullah.
  • Iran's next target could well be on American soil. In Senate testimony last month, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper stated that Iranian officials "are now more willing to conduct an attack in the United States in response to real or perceived U.S. actions that threaten the regime."
  • He cited the plot directed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps to assassinate the Saudi ambassador by blowing up a Washington, D.C., restaurant - potentially killing hundreds of Americans in the process.
  • Hizbullah has been tied to failed attacks in 2009 against Israeli and Jewish interests in Azerbaijan, Egypt and Turkey, and last month in Bangkok.
  • In 2004, two security guards attached to the Iranian mission to the UN were sent home after being caught conducting surveillance of city subways and landmarks.
  • In 2008, two Staten Island men pleaded guilty to providing material support to Hizbullah. In Philadelphia, 26 people were indicted in federal court in 2009 for conspiring to provide material support to the terrorist group. At least 18 other Hizbullah-related cases have been brought in federal courts across the U.S. since 2000.

    The writer is director of intelligence analysis for the New York City Police Department.

    See also Warning Iran Against Hitting "Soft" American Targets - Alan M. Dershowitz (Wall Street Journal)
 

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appropriate article for the thread...



CONOR FRIEDERSDORF - Conor Friedersdorf is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he focuses on politics and national affairs. He lives in Venice, California, and is the founding editor of The Best of Journalism, a newsletter devoted to exceptional nonfiction.

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Why Are Some Americans Defending an Iranian Terrorist Group?
FEB 13 2012, 3:11 PM ET 5
The People's Mujahedin of Iran is generating fans in the U.S. for their alleged role in killing Iranian nuclear scientists.

The most powerful word in American politics is terrorist. For the first time since the Cold War ended, America has a consensus enemy (never mind that terrorism is a tactic rather than an ideology). Huge majorities support indefinitely detaining accused terrorists without charges, or killing them without due process. So you'd think that a Muslim terrorist group with Marxist roots would be anathema, especially if it was on the official American and Canadian lists of terror sponsoring organizations. But the People's Mujahedin of Iran, commonly referred to as MEK, has its American defenders.

For them, MEK's history of anti-American violence is forgivable. The important thing is that the group is hostile to the regime in Iran. According to NBC News, MEK fighters are assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists and are being "financed, trained and armed by Israel's secret service." The group has also waged a sophisticated lobbying effort to be struck from America's terrorist list, paying politicians as diverse as Howard Dean, Rudy Giuliani, and Wesley Clark who vouch for it. Jamie Kirchick says whoever is responsible for terrorizing Iranian nuclear scientists deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. Jonathan Toobin names MEK, acknowledges their terrorist past, and argues in favor of collaborating with them. "The MEK may be an unattractive ally," he writes, "but with its Iranian members and infrastructure of support inside the country, it is an ideal weapon to use against the ayatollahs. This is not just the standard and cynical argument about the ends justifying the means but rather an entirely defensible strategy in which a vicious and tyrannical government's foes become legitimate allies in what is for all intents and purposes a war."

Anti-interventionists like Daniel Larison and Global War on Terror critics like Glenn Greenwald are understandably bothered by the hypocrisy in all this. If people are thrown in jail for donating money to terrorist organizations, how can prominent politicians be on the payroll of one without facing arrest? Isn't it hypocritical to decry terrorism as irredeemably evil, only to embrace the tactic when it is used against an unfriendly regime? If Israel is funding MEK assassinations aren't they a state sponsor of terrorism? Aren't these double standards corrosive to the rule of law?

I'd ask MEK enthusiasts a different question.

In your telling, MEK doesn't belong on the U.S. list of foreign terrorist organizations; Rudy Giuliani shouldn't be arrested for taking their money and speaking out on their behalf; Israel shouldn't be declared a State Sponsor of Terror for funding their operations; and President Obama shouldn't send drones to assassinate MEK leaders. By your logic, America's list of terrorist organizations is therefore overly broad; by your logic, patriotic Americans who've done nothing wrong are nonetheless vulnerable to arrest and imprisonment for giving material support to MEK; by your logic, President Obama could unilaterally order the assassination of valuable allies engaged in righteous behavior.

So why aren't MEK enthusiasts alarmed? If you think our list of terrorist organizations is fallible, shouldn't you be calling for it to be reviewed? If you think American citizens are subject to arrest and imprisonment under laws designed to weaken our enemies, even when they're speaking out on behalf of what is actually an ally, shouldn't you be calling for material support laws to be reformed? If President Obama is empowered under U.S. law to order the assassination of certain foreigners, even as you affirm that they're acting righteously, shouldn't you want to curtail his power?

There is no way to be a conventionally hawkish MEK apologist without revealing part of your world view to be deeply wrongheaded. Either you are supporting a terrorist organization -- something you deem cause for assassination without due process -- or else the extraordinary measures you favor to fight terrorists can be legally applied to people who aren't deserving of it.
 

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It's Tobin, not Toobin. Here is his full article:

Israel’s Iranian Allies of Convenience Jonathan S. Tobin | 02.09.2012 - 5:15 PM

If politics makes strange bedfellows, wars make even stranger ones. That has always been true for all nations and is no less the case for the state of Israel in our own day. Beset by a world of Arab and Islamic foes, it has taken its allies wherever it can find them.

A generation ago that meant a cozy if embarrassing relationship with apartheid-era South Africa. Those critics of the Jewish state who wish to make much of this should remember Nelson Mandela was happy to embrace the support of the Soviet Union and totalitarian Cuba.

Today, with an Islamist regime in Iran threatening not just the security of Israel but the existence of the nation via a nuclear weapons program the world has been powerless to stop, Israel has reportedly found another set of unsavory allies: the People’s Mujahedin of Iran (also known by their Farsi acronym MEK), a dissident group that has been labeled a terrorist organization by the United States.

According to a report from NBC News, U.S. officials believe Israel has employed members of the People’s Mujahedin in harassing the Iranian government and its minions. While the group denies it is involved with Israel, it is difficult to doubt the truth of the allegation that the Iranian dissidents have been receiving Israeli training and have been used to carry out attacks on Tehran’s nuclear program, in particular the assassination of Iranian scientists. While Jerusalem’s critics will call this hypocritical and illegal, their qualms won’t impress many Israelis.

Israel is, after all, locked in a conflict with an Iranian regime that has made no bones about its intentions. Just last week, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei repeated the standard Iranian line about Israel being a “cancerous tumor” that must be eradicated. Coming from a man who leads a regime based on religious fanaticism and which is dedicating massive amounts of the country’s resources towards achieving its nuclear ambitions, this is no idle threat.

Under these circumstances, Israel is entirely justified in using whatever means it has to prevent Khameini’s government from achieving its genocidal ends. The MEK may be an unattractive ally, but with its Iranian members and infrastructure of support inside the country, it is an ideal weapon to use against the ayatollahs.

This is not just the standard and cynical argument about the ends justifying the means but rather an entirely defensible strategy in which a vicious and tyrannical government’s foes become legitimate allies in what is for all intents and purposes a war. Israel’s alliance is no more nor less moral than that of the United States and Great Britain with an even worse set of criminals than the MEK: Stalin’s Soviet Union.

To those who say it is immoral to use those who have employed terrorism, the only reply can be that it would be far worse for Israel’s government to allow such scruples to prevent them from carrying out actions that might stop the Iranians from going nuclear.

Indeed, those who cry out against the possibility of Israeli or American air strikes on Iran to demolish nuclear facilities cannot at the same time criticize covert actions that could theoretically obviate the need for the use of force on that scale.

Moreover, in a conflict in which Iran has served as the chief sponsor and source of funds and munitions for the Hezbollah and Hamas terrorist groups, it is ridiculous to expect Israel to unilaterally decide using unsavory friends should be beyond the pale.

The MEK are allies of convenience and, just like many wartime allies in other conflicts, share only a common enemy with Israel. But however nasty they may be, Israel need not blush about using them. For a democracy at war, the only truly immoral thing to do would be to let totalitarian Islamists like those in Tehran triumph.
 

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how about something we can all agree on...

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter

but, as George Carlin once said "if fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? :)
 

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Iranian Boats Shadow USS Aircraft Carrier in Gulf

Updated: Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 11:12 AM EST
Published : Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 10:38 AM EST
ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN - The American aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln has passed through the Strait of Hormuz, shadowed by Iranian patrol boats.
But there were no incidents on Tuesday as the Lincoln's battle group crossed through the narrow strait, which Iran has threatened to close in retaliation for tighter Western sanctions.
Several U.S. choppers flanked the carrier group throughout the voyage from the Gulf. Radar operators also picked up an Iranian drone and surveillance helicopter in Iran's airspace near the strait, which is jointly controlled by Iran and Oman.
The Lincoln entered the Gulf last month amid heightened tensions with Iran. It is scheduled to begin providing aiding the NATO mission in Afghanistan starting Thursday.




Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/ira...aircraft-carrier-in-gulf-021412#ixzz1mNrNpib8
 

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Iran opposition site: Police smother protest plans

  • Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:24pm
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DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — An Iranian opposition website says security forces in Tehran staged a major clampdown following calls for protests to mark the anniversary of pro-reform leaders being placed under apparent house arrest.
Kalame.com says some "silent" protests were held Tuesday, but gave few details. The reports cannot be confirmed because of severe media restrictions on covering opposition activities.
Opposition leaders Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mahdi Karroubi have been out of the public eye for a year under what activists describe as house arrest. They led the challenge to the 2009 re-election of President Mahoud Ahmedinejad, claiming vote rigging.
Rights group Amnesty International says a block on Internet sites this week was an apparent attempt to disrupt planned protests.

My comment: The rift between the will of the people and the Iranian leadership is great. That is what is wrong with Iran as it is. The leadership does not even come close to reflecting the will of the people yet they make threats and defy their obligations as a country with nuclear capability. At this point and time suppression is the stumbling block to stability and sensibility.
 

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how about something we can all agree on...

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter

but, as George Carlin once said "if fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? :)

Not me man. I cheer when the guard shoot and kills the bank robber. I differentiate between the arsonist and the fireman. IF we can agree on the definition of terrorism -- The deliberate killing of innocents for a political purpose, then we can go further in exploring the purpose of each group. For instance, Arafat founded the Palestinian Liberation Organization in 1964. To free who? From what? In Mumbai, a Pakistani terror cell shot and murdered Indian citizens in a train station. Then they went to the tourist and business hotels, and specifically targeted Jews.
http://www.google.com/search?q="ter...w.,cf.osb&fp=10c2c48dcb937c1d&biw=792&bih=448
 

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What does a Foo Fighter fight????
 

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There are many different kinds of nuclear bombs. I can assure you that before anyone drops a nuke on anyone they would have do extensive testing that would take months. My father was personally involved in this set up process having personally seen at least twelve bombs go off either in the Nevada desert, Los Alamos NM, or the South Pacific.

My point is any test whether underground or not would be picked up by seismological listening devices that have been placed all over that area. If a pin drops in Iran we can hear it.

Bottom line is: No testing - no bomb.

So relax- its all propaganda shouted out by ignorant fools who don't know what they're talking about.
 

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Iranian Boats Shadow USS Aircraft Carrier in Gulf

Updated: Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 11:12 AM EST
Published : Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 10:38 AM EST
ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN - The American aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln has passed through the Strait of Hormuz, shadowed by Iranian patrol boats.
But there were no incidents on Tuesday as the Lincoln's battle group crossed through the narrow strait, which Iran has threatened to close in retaliation for tighter Western sanctions.
Several U.S. choppers flanked the carrier group throughout the voyage from the Gulf. Radar operators also picked up an Iranian drone and surveillance helicopter in Iran's airspace near the strait, which is jointly controlled by Iran and Oman.
The Lincoln entered the Gulf last month amid heightened tensions with Iran. It is scheduled to begin providing aiding the NATO mission in Afghanistan starting Thursday.





Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/ira...aircraft-carrier-in-gulf-021412#ixzz1mNrNpib8

No shit? Iranian ships are patrolling their waters and air space with a fucking Armada rolling in of the biggest super power in the world. We impose sanctions on them that hurt them economically and they then "threaten" not act on, but "threaten" and we have our panties in a bunch? I wonder why the world has grown to despise us? The arrogance and double standard of our ways is becoming almost laughable when you have people trying to fan the flames of it all. For all we have done to Iran blowing up a restaurant and taking hostages seems par for the course. I dont condone it but i also dont condone our actions over there either... but i also dont cry when another nation has a response that hurts us either. Its kinda mathematical.
 

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Not me man. I cheer when the guard shoot and kills the bank robber. I differentiate between the arsonist and the fireman. IF we can agree on the definition of terrorism -- The deliberate killing of innocents for a political purpose, then we can go further in exploring the purpose of each group. For instance, Arafat founded the Palestinian Liberation Organization in 1964. To free who? From what? In Mumbai, a Pakistani terror cell shot and murdered Indian citizens in a train station. Then they went to the tourist and business hotels, and specifically targeted Jews.

Werd. So when we went into Iran in '53 to not only fulfill political purposes but also to insure economic interests (read Shell and BP) with no concern for life in the coup, its all good. Im with you, all the way as i think its abominable to use human life as a means to gain political traction but to somehow lose sight of our history only tells half the story. Look at what we have done in Latin America the last 80 years... how many innocents died there for political purposes? But thats just me, i dont play favorites. Killing for political purposes is terrorism and in many cases we are seen as just that and rightfully so. Until we can accept that we never will have any different outcomes.
 

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You really see it that way? I think the world relies on us.

You can despise someone and still hold disdain for them. Maybe they see are charitable efforts as just a smoke screen. Dont get me wrong, we do alot of good in the world, but we also do alot of bad and are quite the interventionists. Think of it in gambling terms: its a push. Can you get ahead when you keep pushing?
 

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I do not make the following closing statement as an excuse for any missteps my country has ever taken. I wasn't born in 1953, but I always read a lot in these forums posts by people who report as if they were there. I know this though, that info is a lot easier to gather in this day and age, and I'm pretty comfortable in knowing America is a force for good in the world and Iran a perpetrator of evil.
 

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They can despise you openly but when you grease their palms they cooperate behind the scenes. Thing is Iran is oil rich and is the new cowboy on the block. Good point about the testing phase though, hard to conceal that one. Surely they would test something first....or.....maybe not. Those goofy fucks are clueless and driven for all the wrong reasons. They seem to be getting some Russian help and that might enter into that equation also since they have nuke experience. Damn, 7 months till football starts and I am wasting valuable time kicking this can around. Somebody stop me.
 

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You can depend on someone and still hold disdain for them. Maybe they see are charitable efforts as just a smoke screen. Dont get me wrong, we do alot of good in the world, but we also do alot of bad and are quite the interventionists. Think of it in gambling terms: its a push. Can you get ahead when you keep pushing?

Fixed it
 

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You can despise someone and still hold disdain for them. Maybe they see are charitable efforts as just a smoke screen. Dont get me wrong, we do alot of good in the world, but we also do alot of bad and are quite the interventionists. Think of it in gambling terms: its a push. Can you get ahead when you keep pushing?

I know Clippers +4 was a Push. I also know that in terms of our foreign affairs there's a lot we'll never know. You and I seem to fill in the blanks a lot differently. No problem.
 

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I wasn't born in 1953, but I always read a lot in these forums posts by people who report as if they were there.

You know what they say about history dont ya Scotty??? As far as being a force for good, yhea, its easy to say that... hell i think thats even the Navy slogan now, oh wait thats a "world force for good". Good is an ambiguous term thou isnt it? We are good to you if you stay in line and do what you are told. Iran isnt allowed to pursue a nuclear technology because some other nation told them they werent "good" enough to have one. We are good to allies and people who have the same interest as us. Those that dont, are enemies. Even thou we employ many of the same tactics as those that we condemn to be bad, yet we are good? Who says we are good and who says who are bad? The ones with the biggest guns and the petrol dollar. If this isnt the pinnacle of circular logic, what is (besides the bible anyway)?
 

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