False Fears About Iran

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Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Steve Chapman - who most often writes from a conservative/libertarian POV - provides yet another solid summary of why there's no reasonable or rational reason for American citizens to fear much of anything happening in Iran


False Fears About a Nuclear Iran

We've heard this warning before. It's still wrong.

Steve Chapman | February 13, 2012




"The stupidest thing I have ever heard." — Meir Dagan, former head of Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, on attacking Iran's nuclear facilities.


Stupid it may be, but it's also the hottest trend since the iPhone. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last year that if Iran proceeds toward acquiring a nuclear arsenal, "we will take whatever steps are necessary to stop it." Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said the same thing.


The Republican presidential candidates (except Ron Paul) strain to outdo each other in bellicose rhetoric. Mitt Romney says, "If you elect me as president, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon." Newt Gingrich promises, "Iran is not going to get a nuclear weapon." Rick Santorum is prepared to bomb Iranian nuclear sites.


The United States and Israel are keeping their powder dry, but that could change anytime. A report in The Washington Post said, "Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will strike Iran in April, May, or June."


The prevailing wisdom among policymakers, in short, bears an eerie resemblance to the Iraq consensus of 2002. We and the Israelis allegedly faced an intolerable peril from a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction and a lust for aggression. Fortunately, we were told, it was nothing that a short, sudden military attack wouldn't solve.


But in Iraq, it turned out the solution was anything but quick or easy—and the danger was vastly exaggerated. And in Iran? Ditto.


"The working assumption that it is possible to totally halt the Iranian nuclear project by means of a military attack is incorrect," Dagan recently told The New York Times.



"There is no such military capability. It is possible to cause a delay, but even that would only be for a limited period of time."


Another prominent Mossad veteran, Rafi Eitan, said the attack would delay Iran's nuclear program "not even three months."


Americans may be led to assume we will pay no price. But Iran has innumerable options for "asymmetric" retaliation—attacking our ships in the Persian Gulf, sponsoring terrorism in Afghanistan or the United States, and ordering its Lebanese Hezbollah ally to rain rockets on Israel. We may find that fighting a war with Iran is like making love to a gorilla: You don't stop when you're done; you stop when the gorilla is done.


Why is everyone so eager to plunge into another war? Because of another false fear: that a nuclear-armed Iran will use its new arsenal to obliterate the Jewish state or bully its neighbors.


This panic requires a total disregard for everything we have learned during the nuclear age. Over the past 60 years, assorted enemies and rivals have acquired nuclear stockpiles: the Soviet Union, China, Pakistan and North Korea. All of them have learned that they are useless as offensive weapons against other nuclear states and their allies.


The reason is simple: Any nation that carries out a nuclear attack assures itself of cataclysmic retaliation. You can't win a nuclear war. You can only lose one.
Alarmists claim the past is irrelevant because the mullahs in Tehran are an entirely different enemy: willing to accept national annihilation for the brief pleasure of erasing Israel. But if the Iranians were bent on mass martyrdom, they could have found a simpler way.


The incineration of Israel could be done with conventional weapons—remember what the U.S. did to Dresden and Tokyo?—which are far easier to acquire in bulk than nukes. For some reason, Iran has passed on this option.


China was equally terrifying back when it was developing nuclear weapons. The dictator Mao Zedong declared, "We are prepared to sacrifice 300 million Chinese for the victory of the world revolution." President Kennedy, however, wisely rejected a preemptive attack.


North Korea provoked intense anxiety when it built the bomb. But in the ensuing years, it has been no more or less intractable or belligerent than before.
Alarmists insist that an Iranian bomb would set off a regional arms race, with Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey hastening to get their own. But they already face a worrisome neighbor with a nuclear arsenal: Israel. None has seen the need for a comparable deterrent.


The world has seen the rise of one nuclear state after another without the outbreak of nuclear war or nuclear blackmail. Yet this one, we are told, will change the world in ways we cannot tolerate. We've heard that warning before. It's still wrong.
 

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of course, our own NIE said they stopped such activities in 2003, remember?

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=538550&highlight=nie+iran

it's just another Bush lie, those dastardly wepubwicans

in related stories

OBL is not a threat to ever attack American soil
Do you really think somebody is going to hijack airplanes and crash them in American cities? LOL, what a turd
Germany will never start another war with it's neighbors, especially if we give them Czechoslovakia
We can never make Germany or Japan democracies, we're wasting our money
The war in Iraq is already lost
A surge? really? You are asking us for a suspension of disbelief!

why would anyone believe that a country that espouses, encourages, finances and rewards terrorist activities is a threat to peace? just plain stupid

and the band plays on
 

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At the very best it is still just one person's opinion. Iran is headed by a loose cannon and that is a major concern.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Fortunately for those who espouse violence as a means of human negotiation, there appears to be no shortage of young American men & women who are willing to go over and give their lives as part of the Pentagon's Forever War. Send your son & daughter to the nearest recruiting station & they can join in the fun!
 

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Fortunately for those who espouse violence as a means of human negotiation, there appears to be no shortage of young American men & women who are willing to go over and give their lives as part of the Pentagon's Forever War. Send your son & daughter to the nearest recruiting station & they can join in the fun!

God bless them, each and every one of them.
 

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I think we all espouse peace. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't always cooperate.
 

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Fortunately for those who espouse violence as a means of human negotiation, there appears to be no shortage of young American men & women who are willing to go over and give their lives as part of the Pentagon's Forever War. Send your son & daughter to the nearest recruiting station & they can join in the fun!

First of all you put words into other peoples mouths when you say those people espouse violence as a means of human negotiation. I have not seen that espoused at least on this forum. You do have to take action when human negotiation fails from time to time but that is not a carte blance answer. Iran is a time bomb and if you are inferring that we should not "espouse violence" if all else fails then what do you espouse, turn your head and let the rest of the world fend for itself.
War is violent but the consequences or irresponsible leadership in Iran will have to be dealt with on terms equal to the task. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. As for throwing potential military losses in front of the bus, every one in the military is a volunteer, many have re-enlisted, they know what their mission is and it is not to guard Florida from attack. Yes Barman, you are safe and secure in your own backyard.
 

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I'm more scared of my postman losing his shit on tomorrow's route than I am of Iran attacking us or Israel. They've not invaded or attacked a country in nearly 300 years yet we've overthrown their govt to install a dictator, assisted Iraq in the Iran/Iraq engagements, and now routinely invade their airspace and kill their citizens.

who's the time bomb and the peace lovers again? :think2:
 

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Have they now got nukes? New Iran fear as it warns West: We've made a major breakthrough


By Christopher Leake and Damien Gayle

Last updated at 12:08 AM on 12th February 2012



Iran's leader issued a new threat to the West yesterday – warning that his country would soon unveil ‘big new nuclear achievements’.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did not elaborate on the announcement – but insisted Iran would never give up its uranium enrichment process.
Western powers, including Britain and the United States, suspect the country’s nuclear programme is aimed at producing atomic weapons.

article-2099793-11AE4F79000005DC-787_470x288.jpg
Rallying cry: Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad addresses the crowd at the Azadi (freedom) Square on the 33rd anniversary of the Islamic revolution



article-2099793-11AEC8AF000005DC-907_470x288.jpg
Support: Iranian women hold national flags and a portrait of supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, as rallies across the country marked the anniversary

Iran insists it is designed for peaceful purposes only, such as energy production.
Addressing a rally of tens of thousands of Iranians in Tehran yesterday, Ahmadinejad said: ‘Within the next few days the world will witness the inauguration of several big new achievements in the nuclear field.’
He said Iran was prepared to stage fresh talks over its nuclear programme, but added that Tehran ‘will never enter talks if enemies behave arrogantly’.

More...


The president’s remarks were made to a rally marking the 33rd anniversary of the Islamic Revolution that toppled the pro-Western monarchy and brought Islamic clerics to power.
They will do little to encourage the revival of talks with the West over Iran’s nuclear programme.
Four rounds of UN sanctions and recent tough financial penalties by the US and EU have failed to persuade Iran to halt aspects of atomic work that could provide a possible pathway to weapons production.
Ahmadinejad told the crowd in Tehran’s Azadi Square that Iran had been forced to manufacture nuclear fuel rods – which provide fuel for reactors – on its own as international sanctions ban it from buying them on foreign markets.

article-2099793-11AE4A1B000005DC-333_470x288.jpg
Replica: Iran has touted the RQ-170 drone's capture as one of its successes against the 'against the global arrogance' of the U.S.

Apart from progress on the rods, the upcoming announcement could be about Iran's underground enrichment facility at Fordo or upgraded centrifuges, which are expected to be installed in the central town of Natanz.
Iran has also said it would inaugurate the Russian-built nuclear power plant in the southern port of Bushehr in 2012.
Iran's unchecked pursuit of its nuclear programme scuppered negotiations a year ago but Iranian officials last month proposed a return to the talks with the five permanent UN Security Council members plus Germany.
'Iran is ready for talks within the framework of equality and justice,' Ahmadinejad repeated yesterday.
But he warned that Tehran 'will never enter talks if enemies behave arrogantly'.
In the past, Iran has angered Western officials by appearing to buy time through opening talks and weighing proposals even while pressing ahead with the nuclear research.
article-2099793-11AE4498000005DC-904_470x288.jpg

Solidarity: President Ahmadinejad, left, was joined by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, who also spoke to hail the Iranian revolution and denounce Israel

Washington recently levied new sanctions aimed at limiting Iran's ability to sell oil, which accounts for 80 percent of its foreign revenue.
The European Union has also adopted its own toughest measures yet on Iran, including an oil embargo and freeze of the country's central bank assets.

Israel is worried Iran could be on the brink of an atomic bomb and many Israeli officials believe sanctions only give Tehran time to move its nuclear sites underground, out of reach of Israeli military strikes.
The U.S. and its allies argue that Israel should hold off on any military attack on Iranian nuclear facilities to allow more time for sanctions to work.
Before Ahmadinejad spoke, Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas prime minister from Gaza, addressed the crowd.
He congratulated Iranians on the 1979 anniversary of their revolution and vowed that his militant Palestinian group would never recognize Iran's and Hamas' arch-enemy, Israel.

article-2099793-0EB8F96D00000578-716_470x288.jpg
Production: President Ahmadinejad at a previous visit to the Natanz Uranium Enrichment Facility, around 200 miles south of the capital, Tehran

Also at the rally, Iran displayed a full-size model of the U.S. drone RQ-170 Sentinel, captured in December near the border with Afghanistan.
Iran has touted the drone's capture as one of its successes against the West.
State television called the drone a 'symbol of power' of the Iranian armed forces 'against the global arrogance' of the U.S.
The report broadcast footage of other rallies around Iran, saying millions participated in the anniversary celebrations, many under heavy snowfall.
There was no response from the Foreign Office to yesterday’s developments in Iran.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-new-nuclear-achievements.html#ixzz1mNJEZ25f
 

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I'm more scared of my postman losing his shit on tomorrow's route than I am of Iran attacking us or Israel. They've not invaded or attacked a country in nearly 300 years yet we've overthrown their govt to install a dictator, assisted Iraq in the Iran/Iraq engagements, and now routinely invade their airspace and kill their citizens.

who's the time bomb and the peace lovers again? :think2:

That is why I made the comment about Barman being safe in Florida. I feel safe also, and obviously so do you. Did you see 9-11 coming, I didn't. Maybe we forget too easily but then again the people of NYC will never forget it. Because they have not attacked anyone in 300 years does not mean there is not another 9-11 in the future for some body, somewhere.
There are dissadents in Iran and we have seen how they are dealt with. I remain optimisticly cautious but you have to keep Iran in check and their failure to comply with their nuclear activity is not a good sign. Anyone who turns nuclear activity into developing nuclear weapons has to be watched and if needed, dealt with.

US involvements in the middle east in the years past were questionable at best and nothing to be proud of. However, today is today and we have to deal with things as they come up. Ahmadineiad has said they will never abandon their uranium enrichment process so you can take heed or ignore. I choose to take heed.
 

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Democrats split on handling Iran threat


By Alexander Bolton - 02/14/12 05:30 AM ET

Democratic senators are reluctant to press President Obama to take more aggressive action against Iran despite the efforts of some of their colleagues.
As tensions rise in the Middle East and an Israeli military strike seems imminent, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) are spearheading a resolution calling on Congress to rule out any foreign policy approach that would accept Iran as a regional power with nuclear strike capability. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is also involved.
But their attempts to recruit Democratic lawmakers to their cause is falling short, as Democrats are showing an aversion to interfering with the commander in chief during an election year.
This comes despite the sway of the men involved: Graham, Lieberman and McCain are considered some of the top foreign policy experts in the upper chamber and they often travel together on codels, the official trips lawmakers take to foreign countries.
They have had some success: Sen. Bob Casey Jr. (D-Pa.) has signed on, and one source familiar with the legislative strategy said Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) is also on board.
The measure is expected to be unveiled later this week, and the trio was scrambling to persuade more Democrats to sign on by midweek.
Democrats worry the resolution would be seen as creeping toward an authorization of military force against Iran, a foreign policy option that is highly unpopular with liberal voters.
A Senate aide familiar with the resolution said it is not an authorization of military action and leaves the option of further negotiations on the table.
Graham and Lieberman announced last month they planned to introduce a bipartisan resolution that will “put the Senate on record as ruling out a strategy of containment of a nuclear-armed Iran.”
They, and others in Congress, worry the administration views Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon as inevitable, and are preparing to employ a variation of the containment policy the United States used against the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
Spokesmen for the lawmakers declined to discuss negotiations with potential Democratic allies. Spokeswomen for Casey and Blumenthal declined to comment on the resolution.
This is the latest effort by Congress to push Obama to take a tougher stand against Iran’s scramble for enriched uranium, which threatens to destabilize the region.
The Senate voted 100-0 in December to require the administration to impose sanctions on Iran’s financial sector. Obama ordered tougher sanctions on Iran’s central bank earlier this month, but critics say the administration went only as far as the new law required.
Growing aggression between Iran and Israel has fueled new worries on Capitol Hill.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said over the weekend that he will soon announce a major nuclear development.
Israel on Monday accused Iran of masterminding bomb attacks against embassy workers in India and Georgia. The bombings appeared to be retaliation for the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists by a similar method, attaching a magnetic explosive to a car.
Earlier this month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta predicted Israel will launch a military strike against Iran in the next several months to prevent it from building a nuclear warhead.
Some lawmakers and policy experts believe Obama is prepared to accept a nuclear-armed Iran.
“Many in Congress suspect correctly that Barack Obama has every intention of tolerating Iran with a nuclear weapon despite his protestations to the contrary,” said Danielle Pletka, vice president of foreign and defense policy at the American Enterprise Institute. “The administration seems more concerned about an Israeli strike on Iran than Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon.”
Graham, Lieberman and McCain are dead set against accepting Iran as a nuclear power, and want the administration and Congress to make an unequivocal statement that the United States will pursue all means to avert that possibility.
“Iran with a nuclear weapon is great concern and will further destabilize a volatile region. Sen. Graham thinks Iran getting a nuclear weapon is a disaster in the making,” said Graham’s spokesman, Kevin Bishop.
Alex Vatanka, a scholar at the Middle East Institute, said the resolution is not necessarily a preliminary step to military action against Iran, although some might view it as such.
“It acts as part of the U.S. pressure on Tehran. Some would argue this is part of the build-up to war with Iran but the step in itself would not fundamentally change the U.S. position,” he said. “President Obama has never ruled out the military option.”
Vatanka, who answered questions by email from Dubai, said Iran’s neighbors fear another U.S. military campaign in the Middle East could have broad consequences.
“I sense a lot of anxiety about what a U.S. war against Iran would mean to the region,” he said of Iran’s neighbors. “This is despite huge reservations in these states about Iranian behavior and policies.
“The U.S. pro-war argument certainly has many detractors here in the Middle East and that’s why I think to put the military option as the default mechanism to deal with a nuclear-armed Iran is to unduly limit U.S. policy options,” he said.
 

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Same thing they did with Iraq, war propaganda. Its a business people, will we ever realize that we are being bullshited? Seriously people, we let that dumb ass bush come in and lie to our face, take us into a war and we don't do shit about it. Now we let Obama continue the propaganda, the next president will do the same. Holy shit, how stupid are we? Goddamn, pisses me off that people actually believe this shit.
 

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I'm more scared of my postman losing his shit on tomorrow's route than I am of Iran attacking us or Israel. They've not invaded or attacked a country in nearly 300 years yet we've overthrown their govt to install a dictator, assisted Iraq in the Iran/Iraq engagements, and now routinely invade their airspace and kill their citizens.

who's the time bomb and the peace lovers again? :think2:

Hamas? Hezbollah? Arafat's PLO? are you really arguing they're a peaceful nation?
 

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Same thing they did with Iraq, war propaganda. Its a business people, will we ever realize that we are being bullshited? Seriously people, we let that dumb ass bush come in and lie to our face, take us into a war and we don't do shit about it. Now we let Obama continue the propaganda, the next president will do the same. Holy shit, how stupid are we? Goddamn, pisses me off that people actually believe this shit.

What is it that you don't believe, that Iran does not have nuclear capabilities? Is that bullshit. I must admit that on my top 100 list of shit to worry about this is around #300. But...in this case the world is exerting pressure on Iran to report properly on their nuclear activity and developments and they will not. That is a fact, not bullshit. If you are complying why would you refuse to report the same as every other nation does. If there is propaganda involved in this matter it exists because Iran is aloof and non-cooperative. Again, that is a fact, not propoganda. If Iran complies there is no room for propaganda.
 

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Hamas Leader in Iran: No Compromise, Only Armed Resistance
Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said Monday in Iran, the "gun is our only response to the Zionist regime. In time, we have come to understand that we can obtain our goals only through fighting and armed resistance and no compromise should be made with the enemy."
Last week, Al-Quds reported that high-level officials in Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait had advised Haniyeh not to visit Iran, and that "Haniyeh's visit to Tehran will have consequences." (Jerusalem Post)
 

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Assad's Forces Used Nerve Gas in Homs - Elior Levy (Ynet News)
Capt. Abd al-Salam Ahmed Abdul Razek, who served in Syria's chemical warfare administration, told Al-Arabiya that the Syrian military used nerve gas to assist forces in their raids on the city of Homs.
He said the nerve gas was used under the supervision of Russian and Iranian experts.
 

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The Saudis Will Want the Bomb, Too - Michael J. Totten (PJMedia)

It's no secret that Saudi Arabia will want nuclear weapons if Iran gets them. There's an interesting angle here that hardly anyone seems to notice.

Israel is supposedly the mortal enemy of the Arabs. Right? So how come no Arab state bothered getting nuclear weapons after Israel acquired the bomb?

Either the Arab war against Israel is less serious than the conventional wisdom would have it, the Arab-Persian conflict is more serious than the conventional wisdom would have it, or both.
 

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Hamas? Hezbollah? Arafat's PLO? are you really arguing they're a peaceful nation?

those are orgs in Palestine and Lebanon that Iran has denied supporting. of course we say they do so I guess that's who you'll believe? I've learned to trust nothing that the govt tells me as truth and Iran is probably the biggest victim of terror from the West yet they don't attack back nor do they talk about getting revenge for the 1953 coup or the dozens of dead leaders, scientists, and citizens taken out by US-led opposition in the past several years.

we played this he said, she said game with Iran's neighbor and ended up with egg on our face and exposed as liars, further weakening our reputation in the region and the world. We're going down the exact same road here and will likely end up with the results...kill a bunch of brown people and accuse them of deeds they didn't do....destabilize the region even more and never allow the accusers their day in court like we allow our own citizens.
 

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An Iranian plot to bomb a restaurant in full of Georgetown students in Wash, DC in order to kill a Saudi ambassador was recently thwarted. But hey, that doesn't mean the clerics who rule Iran are crazy or anything.
 

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