Face masks or plastic face shields or both?

[HarryCaray]

We will beat this virus if everybody complies.

This is the take I truly don't understand. In the same family as "we'd be playing college football this year if Trump had taken this seriously".
The virus will go away when it runs out of available hosts.
Let's say for argument's sake we do a 100% complete quarantine - no grocery store, no food delivery, no leaving your house period - for, oh, idk, 3 months. Covid would go away in the US. No new cases! The virus is beaten!

Then what? How do we prevent it being reintroduced to our population by someone coming into the country? We saw this happen in New Zealand already. Do we just keep the borders locked forever? What about Americans abroad wanting to come back home? SOL?

When that does inevitably happen, the 40-50M that have already had it...the studies you and your chronies keep citing say that their immunity doesn't last very long. So they can all get it again. Any progress we have made towards herd immunity is gone, and we are right back where we started - except we're all broke.

 

[X-Files]

If someone farts around you & you can smell it thru the mask, you can get the virus thru the mask, don't fool yourself, lol.

Your silly remark is misleading.

If people couldn't smell anything outside the mask while wearing a mask, they couldn't breathe either.

Because you can breathe & smell stuff while wearing a mask that means that air is getting in. It doesn't follow that much larger droplets containing virus will get in or out through the mask.

The fact is mask use is an effective means of limiting infections & deaths.

See my previous post for more info.

 

[X-Files]

Then what? How do we prevent it being reintroduced to our population by someone coming into the country?

Some countries are quarantining such people for 2 weeks, for example. And testing them multiple times during this period.

BTW:

"[FONT=&quot]Australia's Qantas says international flights 'unlikely' to resume before July 2021"

[/FONT]https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/business/qantas-international-flights/index.html[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[HarryCaray]

Some countries are quarantining such people for 2 weeks, for example. And testing them multiple times during this period.

For how long? And more importantly, how do you enforce this quarantine? Or is it just, ya know, "strongly recommended"?

BTW:

"Australia's Qantas says international flights 'unlikely' to resume before July 2021"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/business/qantas-international-flights/index.html

First off, that would never fly in America, no pun intended. It's too "xenophobic". Cue the diatribes about the statue of liberty.
Secondly, and more importantly, that might work in Australia, an island nation that is thousands of miles from the rest of civilization. Yet another example of you citing policy from some faraway land that is not even close to applicable in the US. How many people enter the US every day by foot or car? How many people enter Australia by foot?

Or are we shutting that off too?

 

[X-Files]

For how long? And more importantly, how do you enforce this quarantine? Or is it just, ya know, "strongly recommended"?

For weeks. In one country, Thailand if i recall, i was reading they put you in quarantine. If you even leave your room to go out in the hall to speak to someone they give you another two weeks & fine you thousands of dollars. Food is left outside the door of your room.

 

[HarryCaray]

For weeks. In one country, Thailand if i recall, i was reading they put you in quarantine. If you even leave your room to go out in the hall to speak to someone they give you another two weeks & fine you thousands of dollars. Food is left outside the door of your room.

No I mean how long do we leave that practice in place? Years?
Where are we going to put these people? Are we going to requisition hotels in every major metro specifically for this purpose? And we are going to forcibly detain people there? Who is paying for all this?

 

[Willie99]

Thinking about wearing a shield like that after the humidity becomes more tolerable.

Please do post a picture

 

[X-Files]

No I mean how long do we leave that practice in place? Years?

How long do you think some governments plan to do such things? Maybe until the time herd immunity arrives...and/or...effective treatments are found...and/or one or more effective vaccines are widely received...and/or infection or death counts reach a certain level or curve for a certain sustained period of time...and/or more is discovered scientifically re this new virus, etc?

Other governments are using other methods instead of quarantining international visitors upon arrival in their countries, such as testing them for the virus, temperature checks, mask requirements, contact tracing, etc.

 

[bilbal]

So wrong, wrong & wrong yet again.

"Wearing a Mask: Myths and Facts"
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...to-wear-or-not-to-wear#To-wear-a-mask-or-not?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...otect-others-contracting-covid-19/5333264002/

yeah, sure. you keep believing those 'studies', here is why those studies are so wrong, wrong & wrong again:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
https://phys.org/news/2018-07-beware-scientific-studiesmost-wrong.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
https://healthland.time.com/2010/10/20/a-researchers-claim-90-of-medical-research-is-wrong/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S188319581000112X
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00192-017-3389-1
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7915-most-scientific-papers-are-probably-wrong/
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/3/3/14792174/half-scientific-studies-news-are-wrong

but you keep the mask on thinking it's helping.

 

[bilbal]

Nonsense.

"“Many people argue that cloth masks can’t be effective because they can’t filter out viral particles, which are extremely tiny,” she said. “Most of these particles leave the mouth and nose in much larger droplets that become smaller through evaporation as they move away from the body. Trapping droplets with the mask means not nearly as many viral particles escape. So, when all parties in a gathering are wearing well-constructed, well-fitting masks, it provides an extra layer of safety for everyone.”The COVID-19 particle is indeed around 0.1 microns in size, but it is always bonded to something larger.
“There is never a naked virus floating in the air or released by people,” said Linsey Marr, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech who specializes in airborne transmission of viruses.


“Breathing and talking generate particles around 1 micron in size, which will be collected by N95 respirator filters with very high efficiency,” said Lisa Brosseau, a retired professor of environmental and occupational health sciences who spent her career researching respiratory protection.
Surgical and cloth masks do not protect the wearer from COVID-19 particles as well as medical N95s. (The type of N95 masks used in construction are not effective against the novel coronavirus because they have valves.)
But the CDC does note, “A cloth face covering may not protect the wearer, but it may keep the wearer from spreading the virus to others.” By wearing a cloth covering in public, the spread of the virus can be slowed by lessening the transmission to others.


Evidence shows masks help slow the spread of COVID-19

A study published in June in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by researchers from Texas A&M University, University of Texas, California Institute of Technology and University of California, San Diego found that masks were instrumental in lowering the number of infections in hot spots like Italy and New York.
“We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine,” the scientists wrote.


A study by University of Iowa researchers published in Health Affairs Journal in June found similar results.
“The study provides evidence that US states mandating the use of face masks in public had a greater decline in daily COVID-19 growth rates after issuing these mandates compared with states that did not issue mandates,” researchers wrote.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...id-19-despite-drywall-dust-claims/3322819001/

if you've bothered to read the copious articles about just how often medical research is wrong, then you pretty much know how I feel about this piece of brainwashing garbage. keep falling it for it though, you are a fake news media's dream consumer.

 

[bilbal]

So wrong, wrong & wrong yet again.

"Wearing a Mask: Myths and Facts"
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...to-wear-or-not-to-wear#To-wear-a-mask-or-not?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...otect-others-contracting-covid-19/5333264002/

here are some more articles about how poorly done and misleading, sometimes intentionally, these studies you cite really are:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2014/01/31/richard-smith-medical-research-still-a-scandal/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jerryb...tudies-you-read-about-are-wrong/#1764fbcc4003
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...al-sponsors-keep-results-secret-and-break-law
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/08/covid19-paper-retractions-nejm-lancet-peer-review/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02241-z
https://www.upf.edu/pcstacademy/_docs/200108_ransohoff.pdf

Let me know if you need more, I'll be happy to post them for you.

 

[CaptainLee]

Please do post a picture

Fly out to Las Vegas Labor Day weekend. I'll be wearing a shield. We can check out the Raiders' new empty stadium and the economic doom between gambling sessions.

 

[rolltide]

Pedo-files and family heading out to brunch...

 

[HarryCaray]

How long do you think some governments plan to do such things? Maybe until the time herd immunity arrives...and/or...effective treatments are found...and/or one or more effective vaccines are widely received...and/or infection or death counts reach a certain level or curve for a certain sustained period of time...and/or more is discovered scientifically re this new virus, etc?

Other governments are using other methods instead of quarantining international visitors upon arrival in their countries, such as testing them for the virus, temperature checks, mask requirements, contact tracing, etc.

I see you conveniently chose not to answer all the other questions, but I'll go a little further down your rabbit hole.
1. "until we reach herd immunity"? How will that ever happen if we have stopped it from spreading? It never will. Nor will we ever have a vaccine that's even 50% effective (most experts say).
2. You think checking someone's temperature as they enter the country is an effective way to 100% protect us from re-introducing Covid? What about incubation period? What about asymptomatic people?
3. Contact tracing. LOL. So every single person that enters our country we are going to effectively trace every single person they come in contact with? 100% infeasible.
4. Mask requirements? LOL. There is no way to fully enforce that, nor is it 100% effective.

So...again...the only realistic way that the "virus can be gone" via lockdown is AFTER we do a full country lockdown and kill it here, THEN we 100% lock our borders and keep them that way for years.
In other words, it's not possible.

All a lockdown does is delay the viruses spread, thereby causing it to never REALLY go away. You are just delaying the inevitable. And severely damaging the economy in the meantime.

I'm sure you will cite some study from Zimbabwe to refute my points now.

 

[X-Files]

if you've bothered to read the copious articles about just how often medical research is wrong, then you pretty much know how I feel about this piece of brainwashing garbage. keep falling it for it though, you are a fake news media's dream consumer.

I'd be surprised if you're not a conspiracy theorist. Of not just one, but multiple conspiracy theories.

We've had guys on here saying everything from C-19 is "just another flu" to it's a "hoax" or it doesn't really exist.

 

[X-Files]

I see you conveniently chose not to answer all the other questions, but I'll go a little further down your rabbit hole.
1. "until we reach herd immunity"? How will that ever happen if we have stopped it from spreading? It never will. Nor will we ever have a vaccine that's even 50% effective (most experts say).
2. You think checking someone's temperature as they enter the country is an effective way to 100% protect us from re-introducing Covid? What about incubation period? What about asymptomatic people?
3. Contact tracing. LOL. So every single person that enters our country we are going to effectively trace every single person they come in contact with? 100% infeasible.
4. Mask requirements? LOL. There is no way to fully enforce that, nor is it 100% effective.

So...again...the only realistic way that the "virus can be gone" via lockdown is AFTER we do a full country lockdown and kill it here, THEN we 100% lock our borders and keep them that way for years.
In other words, it's not possible.

All a lockdown does is delay the viruses spread, thereby causing it to never REALLY go away. You are just delaying the inevitable. And severely damaging the economy in the meantime.

I'm sure you will cite some study from Zimbabwe to refute my points now.

1. Obviously nations around the world are progressing towards herd immunity at different rates & with economies and schools opening will continue to do so.

1. I haven't read anything alleging most experts think a 50% effective vaccine will never arrive.

Re a vaccine, there are about 100 in development & "many experts have tied the availability of a COVID-19 vaccine to the world’s return to “a semblance of previous normality.”3Experts have proposed a range of potential timelines, with some speculating that a vaccine will be available by the end of 2020 and others arguing it may take 12 months longer, at least, to bring a COVID-19 vaccine to market." https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...eedles-will-covid-19-vaccines-save-the-world#


2. No, i said: "How long do you think some governments plan to do such things? Maybe until the time herd immunity arrives...and/or...effective treatments are found...and/or one or more effective vaccines are widely received...and/or infection or death counts reach a certain level or curve for a certain sustained period of time...and/or more is discovered scientifically re this new virus, etc?
Other governments are using other methods instead of quarantining international visitors upon arrival in their countries, such as testing them for the virus, temperature checks, mask requirements, contact tracing, etc."

3. Contact tracing doesn't have to be a "silver bullet" or work perfectly to be an effective tool in helping to significantly combat & limit C-19.

4. Masks are worn on travelers in airplanes arriving from international destinations. Mandates to wear them in those destination countries are also another effective tool in helping to significantly combat & limit C-19.

Who knows if the C-19 virus will ever "be gone" forever. It may require, like the flu, annual shots. It may continue to exist in sewer systems, animals, cold storage, etc, ever if it ever seems to be wiped out from human populations as the SARS coronavirus did.

"The mysterious disappearance of the first SARS virus, and why we need a vaccine for the current one but didn’t for the other":

https://theconversation.com/the-mys...he-current-one-but-didnt-for-the-other-137583

 

[bilbal]

I'd be surprised if you're not a conspiracy theorist. Of not just one, but multiple conspiracy theories.

We've had guys on here saying everything from C-19 is "just another flu" to it's a "hoax" or it doesn't really exist.

If the CDC used the same reporting rules for Covid19 under Trump as they did for H1N1 under Obama, there would be less than 7,000 deaths reported OF Covid19. But the fact is the CDC said forget the H1N1 reporting rules, we have all new reporting rules now. As Birx said, we are taking a very liberal approach to counting deaths. "forget testing a corpse for Covid, you can just call it Covid now." "doctors and hospitals, if you list the cause of death as Covid, we will reimburse you more money than we would for other causes." Arizona says any death within 60 days of a positive Covid test is a "Covid19" death. So if you live in AZ and had Covid in May but died in August of a drug overdose, your death will be listed as Covid19. Horseshit. What the CDC is engaging in is medical fraud. If there was a Democratic president right now, the reporting rules would be totally different. That's not a conspiracy theory, that's a fact. The CDC is a very liberal organization whose employees have donated hundreds of thousands to dozens of Democrats and their causes and less than a thousand to one Republican in the same time period. They are hopelessly biased and unfortunately, they have the ability to easily sway public opinion simply by changing their reporting rules. That's what they've done here and it's worked on you like a charm. Throw in the bullshit medical studies that you naively nod your head in compliant agreement with and well, like I said, you are a fake news media's dream consumer.

 

[X-Files]

If the CDC used the same reporting rules for Covid19 under Trump as they did for H1N1 under Obama, there would be less than 7,000 deaths reported OF Covid19.

Is that what you think is the true figure of C-19 deaths in the USA? Rather than the official figure of over 170,000?

Worldwide C-19 deaths under reported by 130,000+:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

Official figure is now almost 800,000 dead. Probably closer to a million with under counting.

Certainly in the multiple millions, at least, if it was treated as just a flu & without lockdowns & other safety measures.

 

[JavyBaez9]

Is that what you think is the true figure of C-19 deaths in the USA? Rather than the official figure of over 170,000?

Worldwide C-19 deaths under reported by 130,000+:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

Official figure is now almost 800,000 dead. Probably closer to a million with under counting.

Certainly in the multiple millions, at least, if it was treated as just a flu & without lockdowns & other safety measures.

Quebec has 300% the death per million rate of Tennessee and you praise Quebec and say Tennessee is doing terribly. So stop. You've been exposed. You don't care about facts or numbers.

 

[HarryCaray]

Is that what you think is the true figure of C-19 deaths in the USA? Rather than the official figure of over 170,000?

Worldwide C-19 deaths under reported by 130,000+:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

Official figure is now almost 800,000 dead. Probably closer to a million with under counting.

Certainly in the multiple millions, at least, if it was treated as just a flu & without lockdowns & other safety measures.

Yes we know your stance. Thank you for reminding us.