EWINNER bottom line for me....

Fishhead · Sep 30, 2003

LMFAO!!!

If I am a bookmaker and somehow my writers, computor software, etc., etc., allows for players to either purposely or out of unheard circumstances allow for wagers to be made at the same number 12x over my posted limit........I should have stayed in college and became a used car salesman. THIS IS WHY THIS DOESNT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY TO BOOKS AND BOOKMAKERS WHO KNOW THE BUSINESS.

Java · Sep 30, 2003

TTinCo-
Nice post. What did you think of my proposed rules?

Java · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by STRUT888/FISHHEAD:
If I am a bookmaker and somehow my writers, computor software, etc., etc., allows for players to either purposely or out of unheard circumstances allow for wagers to be made at the same number 12x over my posted limit........I should have stayed in college and became a used car salesman. THIS IS WHY THIS DOESNT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY TO BOOKS AND BOOKMAKERS WHO KNOW THE BUSINESS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fishhead:

1) Right before a game is going off, there are a lot of limit bets. With computers, it is EASY to make multiple wagers. Even if the line moves a half point, the sharp may still want the action. (12 accounts is a lot, but the bigger the book the easier it is to have more accounts)

2) That you did not stay in college is not surprising (based upon the quality of your argument)

3) I thought the car salesmen where the ones that DIDN'T go to college.

theswami · Sep 30, 2003

Java-

Either the folks here don't get it or they don't want to get it. The bottom line is that in some cases there are perfectly good reasons for multiple accounts to use the same IP. In order for books to prevent getting ripped off, they need rules. Simple.

I have not seen one poster who thought that it was OK to have multiple accounts. The guys defending the books are doing so fairly blindly without thinking of the larger implications of Ewinner's decision to keep the funds.

Halifax · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by STRUT888/FISHHEAD:
LMFAO!!!

THIS IS WHY THIS DOESNT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY TO BOOKS AND BOOKMAKERS WHO KNOW THE BUSINESS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fish:

This happens all the time with the big boys - the difference is that they have the volume that allows it to "blend in" without always being detected.

At the smaller books with less volume, it's easier to notice these types of anomalies.

docdekay · Sep 30, 2003

This is becoming fu(king comical. its absolutely unreal.

theswami · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TTinCO:
When it's all done and over with, the problem with this is that the forum appears to be supporting this practice which is already a serious problem in the offshore industry.

If it's going to become a fully accepted practice, why not change the rules to reflect reality and eliminate that gray area between print & reality?

If you're going to let everyone screw books senseless, don't bitch when your bonuses & other perks disappear.

It's a very dangerous standard to be supporting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TTinCO-

You seem like one of the brighter bulbs supporting the books in this case. What do you think should happen in this case?

Assumptions:
Players can produce IDs for each account. Play came from the same IPs. Much (but not all) of the play came on similar games.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> This happens all the time with the big boys - the difference is that they have the volume that allows it to "blend in" without always being detected.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And it has been detected. The big boys pay and say bye, not try to steal a few dimes.

theswami · Sep 30, 2003

EVERYONE in this industry should NOT focus on what HAS been done BUT SHOULD focus on how to prevent the cheap shots in the future. Very few people are talking about solutions. Without proof of a scam the book should pay and think about how to prevent getting screwed going forward.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

Yes theswami, the books should have safe guards in place.

Fishhead · Sep 30, 2003

Now we ae getting some answers. Man, one has to play devils advocate around here to get people to spill the beans.

So lets see, what is everybodys guess on the percentage of books that get hit by thise scammers. Also, how many games do you presume they do this on .....say on a given Saturday in college football. Thanks again. This forum is very educational.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> This forum is very educational <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no question that the Rx is a library of knowledge.

Fishhead · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by theswami:
EVERYONE in this industry should NOT focus on what HAS been done BUT SHOULD focus on how to prevent the cheap shots in the future. Very few people are talking about solutions. Without proof of a scam the book should pay and think about how to prevent getting screwed going forward.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!

theswami · Sep 30, 2003

Ty Fish...with my business acumen and some of you folks sharpness we could make a lot of money running a decent book that attacked the best of everything...reduced juice, good cust. svc, bonuses, sharp lines.....it is possible.

The guys that run these shops know the bookmaking business COLD but running a business is a different story.

theswami · Sep 30, 2003

Java in this thread and Halifax in another thread started to outline some things that books should be thinking about in terms of preventing this activity.

Not sure if it was suggested but I would run software that IDed similar IPs coming from multiple accounts and have a report of this activity delivered to me daily.

Like the IRS, identify the loophole and close it. With that said, its just easier for the books to take shots at these guys since many are losers and when they win, just stiff them.

I know that there are posters who would hate to see this happen but I'm a particpant in this forum and gamble as a hobby. Those that "earn" a living by violating rules and scamming will have to figure out another way if the books close this door.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

Make rules & monitor rules. Do not wait till you are in to deep to steal. Get the business squared away & then try bookmaking. The soft line comments i have heard is another factor of skill. Lacking in booking skill and lacking in ethics is a bad mixture.

Java · Sep 30, 2003

Swami-
I actually had that report in the software system I wrote. It was rarely checked by the staff because of the high incidence of AOL proxies that were difficult for the non-technical to track down. Often, it was a suspicious bet or players under the same agent or unusual action on game that started an investigation.
Once something was suspected, making the connections wasn't that difficult.

DENIRO · Sep 30, 2003

betting w/ multiple accounts and placing over the limits

what if the bet lost and all the overlimit money that was placed w/ multiple accounts lost

do the books say it was a no bet because of same ips

even w/ multiple accounts isnt a bet still 50/50
what it cant lose
why not put your house for sell

last year in the nfl, the steam plays from syndicates got slaughtered

are books going to return the money

im sure some were from same ips and over the limit

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

Java,

You have been educational in this ordeal. Thanks.

TTinCO · Sep 30, 2003

Java, I wasn't able to find your proposed ideas
(yet).

Swami--The problem here is that IP ananomizers are way to easy to access, and it's easier than that.

I could go on and on about what the books could do to prevent it, but it's not worth the effort-or cost.

There will be a consolidation to the books that are large enough to balance this action out. The little guys will get crushed or jump ship since the norm is leaning towards reduced juice.