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Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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In 2005, California's Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, terminated the use of methanol after 25 years and 200,000,000 miles of success, to join the expanding use of ethanol driven by producers of corn. In spite of this, he was optimistic about the future of the program, claiming "it will be back." Ethanol is currently (as of 2007) priced at 3 to 4 dollars per gallon, while methanol made from natural gas remains at 1 dollar per gallon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel

:ohno:
 

Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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gtc what about meths corrosive properties?

obviously we would new cars and would they be all fiberglass?

It would take a lot of engineering to create cars without any rubber seals or metal piping.

Moreso even for towing capacity and performance
 

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gtc what about meths corrosive properties?

obviously we would new cars and would they be all fiberglass?

It would take a lot of engineering to create cars without any rubber seals or metal piping.

Moreso even for towing capacity and performance

i dont know if you'd need a complete new car. here's an article on it.

Methanol

<!-- TITLE BEFORE THIS LINE --><!-- BODY OF THE DOCUMENT FOLLOWS THIS LINE --> Methanol (CH3OH) is a colorless, odorless, slightly flammable liquid, also called methyl alcohol or wood alcohol. Liquid methanol can be produced from just about anything containing carbon. Potential sources include natural gas, coal, and biomass. Currently most methanol is produced from natural gas, or methane, using steam, pressure, and a catalyst. Methane, a greenhouse gas, is also given off by decomposing vegetable matter in landfills – another source that could be tapped for methanol production.
History
Methanol was first discovered in 1823 by condensing gases from burning wood. Methanol has been used for more than 100 years as a solvent and as a chemical building block to make products such as plastics, plywood, and paint. It is also used directly in windshield-washer fluid and gas-line antifreeze, and as model airplane fuel.
Current Uses
Pure methanol (M100) has been used in heavy-duty trucks and transit buses equipped with compression-ignition diesel engines. Since 1965, M100 has been the official fuel for Indianapolis 500 race cars. (The last time gasoline was used in the Indianapolis 500 was in 1964, when the race suffered a pile-up of cars that resulted in a a gasoline fire and deaths.) Typically, a blend of 85 percent methanol and 15 percent gasoline (M85) is used in cars and light trucks. Pure methanol can also be reformed in fuel cells into hydrogen, which is then used to power electric vehicles.
Methanol-powered vehicles have been found largely in the West, primarily in California. They can also be seen in the fleets of the federal government and the New York State Thruway Authority.
Source, Availability, And Pricing
The United States produces almost one-quarter of theworld’s methanol supply. According to the American Methanol Institute (1998), about 75 percent of the methanol consumed in the United States is supplied by domestic chemical producers. The remaining supply comes from imports. Canada supplies about 13 percent, Trinidad, Venezuela, and Chile, 8 percent; Europe, Asia and the Middle East, 2 percent; and the remaining 2 percent come from miscellaneous sources. If demand increased, methanol could probably be made less expensively abroad and delivered by ship to the United States.
Storage and Safety
Because methanol is corrosive to some metals and damaging to rubber and some plastics, fuel storage tanks and dispensing equipment must be corrosion and damage resistant. California requires that underground storage tanks for methanol be doubled walled.
Because methanol is water soluble, it could be quickly diluted in large bodies of water to levels that are safe from organisms. Environmental recovery rates for methanol spills are often faster than for petroleum spills. As with gasoline, methanol can be fatal when ingested. Inhalation of fumes and direct contact with skin can also be harmful.
Because pure methanol flames are nearly invisible in daylight, gasoline is added as a safety precaution to provide color to a flame. Added gasoline also serves to add a smell to this otherwise odorless liquid. Because of its high flash point, methanol is less volatile than gasoline. It burns more slowly and at a lower temperature. Barge, truck or rail are the three main ways to transport methanol. In the event of an accident, a pure methanol (M100) fire can be extinguished with water, while a M85 fire, because of the 15 percent gasoline content, cannot. (Water on gasoline spreads fire.)
Performance
Power, acceleration and payload are comparable with those of other fuels in equivalent internal combustion engines. M85 has a high octane rating of 102, compared with 87 for regular unleaded gasoline and 92 for premium unleaded; properly tuned vehicles may experience 7 to 10 percent higher horsepower.
Vehicles using methanol have difficulty starting in temperatures below 0° F. M85 includes 15 percent gasoline, which improves the starting ability in cold weather.
Range and Refueling
Methanol has about half the energy content of gasoline. With current engine technology, it takes about 1.64 to 1.7 gallons of M85 to go the same distance as with a gallon of gasoline. Because mileage using M85 is lower than mileage using gasoline, fueling is needed more frequently.
M85 can be dispensed from pumps in the same manner as gasoline or diesel. Because methanol is corrosive, however, fuel storage tanks and dispensing equipment must e corrosion resistant.
Maintenance and Vehicle Alterations
Methanol is especially damaging to rubber and plastic parts. Parts that come in contact with the fuel need to be damage resistant. These include the fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, fuel pumps and filters.
M85 is commonly used in fuel-flexible vehicles, which are specially designed to use combinations of methanol or regular unleaded gasoline stored in a single tank. The vehicles have a special sensor on the fuel line that can detect the ratio of methanol to gasoline in the fuel tank. The sensor conveys this information to an onboard computer, which automatically adjusts the vehicle’s fuel injection and ignition timing devices.
Emissions
The methanol molecule has a simple chemical structure, which leads to clan combustion; reports from emissions studies, however, vary more widely for methanol than for other fuel probably because of differences among fuel blends used across the country and because vehicles may not be optimized for using methanol. Comparisons of M100 with gasoline and diesel have shown these results:
Carbon monoxide: Emissions vary – sometimes lower, but are usually equal or slightly higher.
Ground-level-ozone-forming potential: 30 to 60 percent less. (In order to take advantage of this characteristic, vehicles must be properly adjusted.)
Nonmethane evaporative hydrocarbons: Usually less.
Toxics: M100 contains none of the carcinogenic ingredients such as benzene, 1,3-butadiene, and acetaldehyde. M85 (with 15 percent gasoline) has 50 percent fewer toxic air pollutants than gasoline.
Formaldehyde levels: Much higher, although still low. The toxicity of formaldehyde is lower than that of other toxics, and formaldehyde emissions can be reduced dramatically with new technology, such as improved catalytic converters.
Nitrogen oxides: Usually comparable or less.
Greenhouse gases: Comparable to gasoline.
Particulate matter: Buses using M100 emit significantly less than diesel-fueled buses.
Thanks to the Northeast Susta
 

Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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you definitely need new cars gtc

One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminium from corrosion:

6 CH3OH + Al2O3 → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2O

The resulting methoxide salts are soluble in methanol, resulting in clean aluminum surface, which is readily oxidised by some dissolved oxygen. Also the methanol can act as an oxidizer:

6 CH3OH + 2 Al → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2

This reciprocal process effectively fuels corrosion until either the metal is eaten away or the concentration of CH3OH is negligible.

When produced from wood or other organic materials, the resulting organic methanol (bioalcohol) has been suggested as renewable alternative to petroleum-based hydrocarbons. However, one cannot use pure methanol in modern petroleum cars without modification, due to potential damage to metal piping and rubber seals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol
 

Timetoplay (by the rules)
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So the greenhouse effect from methanol will be much the same as gasoline? Good luck selling that one.
 

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what the people who are for opening up the US to new drilling/exlporation are missing is that it takes 10-15 years to bring a new field online.

I'm all for it myself, as this country is going to need every drop of oil it can get it's hands on

make no mistake, it will have zero impact on gas prices, we are waaay beyond that.

It's too late, the problem can't be fixed. Hell, the "experts' don't even understand what the problem is (gov't)

prepare yourself for 70's style gas shortages. There is no avoiding it
 

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It's too late, the problem can't be fixed. Hell, the "experts' don't even understand what the problem is (gov't)

prepare yourself for 70's style gas shortages. There is no avoiding it


panic.jpg
 

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yes dawg, although im not positive it would take quite that long, but it would create jobs immediately. Im all for alternative energy however this is not a bad idea to drill here and now.

Whether the positive effect is felt later or not.
 

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what the people who are for opening up the US to new drilling/exlporation are missing is that it takes 10-15 years to bring a new field online.

I'm all for it myself, as this country is going to need every drop of oil it can get it's hands on

make no mistake, it will have zero impact on gas prices, we are waaay beyond that.

It's too late, the problem can't be fixed. Hell, the "experts' don't even understand what the problem is (gov't)

prepare yourself for 70's style gas shortages. There is no avoiding it

No...it doesn't take that long to bring an oilfield online. It all depends on where the oil is located of course...but your timeline is way way off.
 

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No...it doesn't take that long to bring an oilfield online. It all depends on where the oil is located of course...but your timeline is way way off.


LOL.I spend about 20 hours a week researching and studying the sector, have had for years, and get the majority of my info from the real experts in the industry....Matt Simmons etc...

you can start by looking into how long it took to bring the Cantarell field, Prudhoe Bay, North Slope, North Sea etc..etc...online

Also, you may want to look at the estimates of the new Jack discovery in the Gulf and the Brazilian discovery offshore...both 10+ years away and they are 3-4 years old

yes, for a smallish field, with full support of congress, you may be able to do it in 7-8 years, but these sort of discoveries are essentially meaningless.
 

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LOL.I spend about 20 hours a week researching and studying the sector, have had for years, and get the majority of my info from the real experts in the industry....Matt Simmons etc...

you can start by looking into how long it took to bring the Cantarell field, Prudhoe Bay, North Slope, North Sea etc..etc...online

Also, you may want to look at the estimates of the new Jack discovery in the Gulf and the Brazilian discovery offshore...both 10+ years away and they are 3-4 years old

yes, for a smallish field, with full support of congress, you may be able to do it in 7-8 years, but these sort of discoveries are essentially meaningless.

What is your day job?
 

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MIMS I'm just a peon like everybody else, but I invest in the sector, have been for years, due to the STRONG fundementals.... if one uses their brain, digs a little deeper past all the bullshit out there it is plain to see. It has all long ago been predicted.
 

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people may want to think about buying some 5 gallon fuel jugs off ebay while they are still cheap/available, filling them and having them on hand

personally I do not see shortages in the immediate future, as the supply is still solid, but the world is producing 85 mil barrels of crude a day, and consuming 87 mil...so it is coming at some point, and there will be no warning when it does.

The Chinese are buying 500,000 new cars each week
 

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LOL.I spend about 20 hours a week researching and studying the sector, have had for years, and get the majority of my info from the real experts in the industry....Matt Simmons etc...

you can start by looking into how long it took to bring the Cantarell field, Prudhoe Bay, North Slope, North Sea etc..etc...online

Also, you may want to look at the estimates of the new Jack discovery in the Gulf and the Brazilian discovery offshore...both 10+ years away and they are 3-4 years old

yes, for a smallish field, with full support of congress, you may be able to do it in 7-8 years, but these sort of discoveries are essentially meaningless.

You are using the worst case scenario's of cutting edge deep water discoveries.

Jack 2 discovered in 2006...expected to come online in 2013.

You should see an acceleration as the technology is developed...and if the price stays high.

This is a dynamic situation...you can't extrapolate what happened in the past into the future. This will ramp up fast if the price stays high.

China is bringing small fields online discovered 5 years ago. This will accelerate...small fields add up too. It's happening all over as the price stays high. A little under the radar yet.
 

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MJ the Jack 2 field was actually discovered in 2000

The oil is so deep, there is a lot of speculation amongst people who really know (IE the deep sea drillers)that it would require more energy to bring it out of the ground then it would provide.....lots of if's. If you want to plan your future around that, gambling if you will, good luck to you.:103631605
 

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Oil is used mainly for transport in the USA. There are about 250 million cars trucks and buses. Most farm equipment, ships, mining equipment, trains, earth movers and planes run on oil. There is a very good distribution system for gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, etc. In short there is a huge infrastructure depending on oil.

If and when another form of energy shows up that is as economically useful as oil, all that infrastructure will have to be replaced.

Finding and producing new oil will mean lower prices compared to not finding new oil.

Wind and solar are not very cost effective and produce electricity, and electricity does not address the needs related to transportation.
 

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I always find it odd when someone starts a thread with an article and then doesn't bother to engage in the ensuing discussion.
 

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the real story to keep an eye on is Mexico's Cantarell field, the worlds second largest

due to mismanagement, it is expected to be fully depleted within the next few years, causing Mexico to join the ranks of oil importers.

Mexico is currently the US's second or third largest supplier

So even if the JACK or Brazil's discovery, or ANWAR do miraculously come on line in the next few years, the net result is a push...... the Worlds largest field in Saudi Arabia, Ghwar, is in decline as well, although the Arabs hold thier cards close to the vest so nobody knows how bad
 

Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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Oil is used mainly for transport in the USA. There are about 250 million cars trucks and buses. Most farm equipment, ships, mining equipment, trains, earth movers and planes run on oil. There is a very good distribution system for gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, etc. In short there is a huge infrastructure depending on oil.

If and when another form of energy shows up that is as economically useful as oil, all that infrastructure will have to be replaced.

Finding and producing new oil will mean lower prices compared to not finding new oil.

Wind and solar are not very cost effective and produce electricity, and electricity does not address the needs related to transportation.

cant speak for wind but solar is in the transformation to becoming more viable. The raw materials cost too much involved in making panel and they dont have a high enough take rate of the solar power nor is battery technology storing it at a high enough rate to compete, yet. Its not far off.

As for it not being suitable to address transportation I disagree. It is electricity after all. Batteries may be a roadblock for longer hauls, but hydrogen would work in those cases. Obviously petro will still be used in large vehicles, preferably diesel.

In any case alternative energy shouldnt be the reason for not drilling anyway imo
 

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To Romanowski,

My point is that there are huge infrastructure costs associated with using electricity for transportation. Cars, trucks and buses would have to replaced. Railroads electrified, addition electricity produced, transmission lines and grids built and rebuilt, etc.

The simple fact is that oil, at today's prices and at higher prices, is still the best way to power transportation.
 

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