Oilman
I like to pick your brain if I may, always like to hear from long time veteran sportsbettors.
What is your definition of a "small bite" as compared to your bankroll, 2%, 5 % ??
How many sportbooks do you keep active and funded to get the best lines available?
What sports do you bet on and what sports have you been most successfull at?
Thanks
MV
I like to pick your brain if I may, always like to hear from long time veteran sportsbettors.
What is your definition of a "small bite" as compared to your bankroll, 2%, 5 % ??
How many sportbooks do you keep active and funded to get the best lines available?
What sports do you bet on and what sports have you been most successfull at?
Thanks
MV
MV
The proper % of bank roll is based upon your own personal utility curve and the % of win that you have PROVEN you can achieve. For sure the definition of a "big bite" is when your a--hole twitches from the time you place the bet until the time the event is decided. You then know that you have overstepped your comfort zone and that will work to your detriment over the long run.
One additional point is that I have seen sports gamblers, whether they were "laying or playing" fall by the wayside when one of two things, or both, overcame them: old mr. greed or their own egos. You cannot win if you succumb to either one of those demons.
The proper % of bank roll is based upon your own personal utility curve and the % of win that you have PROVEN you can achieve. For sure the definition of a "big bite" is when your a--hole twitches from the time you place the bet until the time the event is decided. You then know that you have overstepped your comfort zone and that will work to your detriment over the long run.
One additional point is that I have seen sports gamblers, whether they were "laying or playing" fall by the wayside when one of two things, or both, overcame them: old mr. greed or their own egos. You cannot win if you succumb to either one of those demons.
MV,
I'd be thrilled to give my opinion, your the first who has ever asked, I try to tell my wife but she doesn't want to hear it.
I have somewhat of an unorthodox approach compared to alot of guys. My style is dictated by my personality and not neccessarily what conventional wisdom would state.
First off, I keep active as many books as the season, bonus situations and line offerings dictate. I am currently active at Pinnacle, Canbet, WSEX and CRIS. Basically each book has a distinct purpose for me. Generally speaking Pinnacle and Canbet are used for sides and totals, I know shopping around for the best number is the ideal approach, but I have found almost always I can get the best line at one of these two books anyway. In years past, I used Pinnacle, Olympic and WSEX for sides and totals, but I now worship at the Canbet alter. The other reason I use just a few books is that I don't like to spread my total bankroll too thin, I find that doing that plays with my mental outlook and that in turn hurts my bottom line. I use WSEX almost exclusively for interactives and CRIS is for some other options. From there I consider each book to have a separate bankroll go to war with, except the books I choose for sides I consider those to share money.
As for the sports I play, my success ranks with pro hoops as number one, baseball is second, hockey is next, then college basketball and finally pro foots. For pro football I never bet sides or totals before the game starts unless I have something really strong to go with, I play alot on halftime lines and I burn up the computer with interactives. When it comes to gathering information, nothing quite compares with watching part of the game before you even lay down a dollar.
As for the size of my bets, I don't have a standard formula, but I average in the range of 3% for each book, of course with interactives there are times when I have much more than that in play. I basically go with what feels comfortable, I rarely raise my bet amount level when my bankroll grows, instead I take the extra out and stay with my original amount. I try to pay myself as much as possible and not let the money in my accounts accumulate too much. Again, this goes back to my personality, nothing breaks me down mentally more than going on a nice run and making some decent return, not cashing out and then giving it all back. When I'm at my base bankroll which is certainly low for most guys, I take a combat approach to my wagers, I focus better, I pass on those leans that tempt me and I only make strong plays. I find sometimes when my roll gets a bit heavy I tend to get a little loose with my play.
I realize these approaches are not the standard way most guys who do this for a living opperate, but after 13 years I understand myself better than ever. I know I can't put myself in positions where my judgement may get clouded because of a previous loss or other stresses, I try to keep things simple and very focused. I hope you can take something from this approach and use it in your own. Good luck.
I'd be thrilled to give my opinion, your the first who has ever asked, I try to tell my wife but she doesn't want to hear it.
I have somewhat of an unorthodox approach compared to alot of guys. My style is dictated by my personality and not neccessarily what conventional wisdom would state.
First off, I keep active as many books as the season, bonus situations and line offerings dictate. I am currently active at Pinnacle, Canbet, WSEX and CRIS. Basically each book has a distinct purpose for me. Generally speaking Pinnacle and Canbet are used for sides and totals, I know shopping around for the best number is the ideal approach, but I have found almost always I can get the best line at one of these two books anyway. In years past, I used Pinnacle, Olympic and WSEX for sides and totals, but I now worship at the Canbet alter. The other reason I use just a few books is that I don't like to spread my total bankroll too thin, I find that doing that plays with my mental outlook and that in turn hurts my bottom line. I use WSEX almost exclusively for interactives and CRIS is for some other options. From there I consider each book to have a separate bankroll go to war with, except the books I choose for sides I consider those to share money.
As for the sports I play, my success ranks with pro hoops as number one, baseball is second, hockey is next, then college basketball and finally pro foots. For pro football I never bet sides or totals before the game starts unless I have something really strong to go with, I play alot on halftime lines and I burn up the computer with interactives. When it comes to gathering information, nothing quite compares with watching part of the game before you even lay down a dollar.
As for the size of my bets, I don't have a standard formula, but I average in the range of 3% for each book, of course with interactives there are times when I have much more than that in play. I basically go with what feels comfortable, I rarely raise my bet amount level when my bankroll grows, instead I take the extra out and stay with my original amount. I try to pay myself as much as possible and not let the money in my accounts accumulate too much. Again, this goes back to my personality, nothing breaks me down mentally more than going on a nice run and making some decent return, not cashing out and then giving it all back. When I'm at my base bankroll which is certainly low for most guys, I take a combat approach to my wagers, I focus better, I pass on those leans that tempt me and I only make strong plays. I find sometimes when my roll gets a bit heavy I tend to get a little loose with my play.
I realize these approaches are not the standard way most guys who do this for a living opperate, but after 13 years I understand myself better than ever. I know I can't put myself in positions where my judgement may get clouded because of a previous loss or other stresses, I try to keep things simple and very focused. I hope you can take something from this approach and use it in your own. Good luck.
i have lived off sports betting and nothing else for the last 5 years, when i first got started i thought for sure there are alot of people who live off of sportsbetting and nothing else, but stats have shown only 1 in every 4.5 million americans live off sports betting and nothing else, a great rarity we are. from my stand point it is the hardest job i have ever had( mentally) and the most rewarding. i think i might be the rarest of all since i only bet on sports 6 months out of the year. i am sad to say i am thinking about quitting as it is too hard to move money around, i mean big money, if i don't quit i will surely be moving to another country.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scpnc:
but stats have shown only 1 in every 4.5 million americans live off sports betting and nothing else, a great rarity we are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Scpnc, I have NO idea how you came up with that stat, but if I would come up with an educated guess, I'd say that there is NO WAY in the world that stat is remotely close, and here is why.. You are saying 1 in 4.5 million americans live off sportsbetting? So lets say there are 270 million Americans approx, right? Now lets say right off the bat that 15% approx are kids under 18, right? (BTW, I am just assuming here with the #'s) So now we are left with 230 million. Now half of these people are women, so lets cut this down now to 115 million potential gamblers, right?
Now if you are saying that 1 in 4.5 million are bettors who do this for a living without working, that would mean that you are saying there are ONLY 25 people that gamble for a living across the USA??
I can tell you that there are 25 posters just alone at RX only who accomplish this.. I would say there are about 80 posters from MW and RX alone that don't work for a living and only gamble.
So like I said scpnc, I don't know the exact stat, but NO WAY can that 1 in 4.5 million be anywhere near accurate.
but stats have shown only 1 in every 4.5 million americans live off sports betting and nothing else, a great rarity we are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Scpnc, I have NO idea how you came up with that stat, but if I would come up with an educated guess, I'd say that there is NO WAY in the world that stat is remotely close, and here is why.. You are saying 1 in 4.5 million americans live off sportsbetting? So lets say there are 270 million Americans approx, right? Now lets say right off the bat that 15% approx are kids under 18, right? (BTW, I am just assuming here with the #'s) So now we are left with 230 million. Now half of these people are women, so lets cut this down now to 115 million potential gamblers, right?
Now if you are saying that 1 in 4.5 million are bettors who do this for a living without working, that would mean that you are saying there are ONLY 25 people that gamble for a living across the USA??
I can tell you that there are 25 posters just alone at RX only who accomplish this.. I would say there are about 80 posters from MW and RX alone that don't work for a living and only gamble.
So like I said scpnc, I don't know the exact stat, but NO WAY can that 1 in 4.5 million be anywhere near accurate.
Oilman
Thanks for the insightfull response.
You didn't mention any NCCA sports, do you find them to difficult to beat?
I also can relate to the having to much money in accounts and playing a bit looser which always turns out to be a bad idea.
SCPNC
You live minutes away from the Mexican border so why don't you find away to setup a bank account in mexico and transfer money from Mex acct to neteller then from Neteller to Mex acct. and then you simply go down to Mex bank to withdrawl your money?
I remember reading about a sportsbettor that had a house down there and if you have property over there you should be able to open a bank account so if you are talking about moving big money then spend a few thousand on a house and now you have somewhere to stay while down there and you have your Mexican bank account.
Something to look into
MV
Thanks for the insightfull response.
You didn't mention any NCCA sports, do you find them to difficult to beat?
I also can relate to the having to much money in accounts and playing a bit looser which always turns out to be a bad idea.
SCPNC
You live minutes away from the Mexican border so why don't you find away to setup a bank account in mexico and transfer money from Mex acct to neteller then from Neteller to Mex acct. and then you simply go down to Mex bank to withdrawl your money?
I remember reading about a sportsbettor that had a house down there and if you have property over there you should be able to open a bank account so if you are talking about moving big money then spend a few thousand on a house and now you have somewhere to stay while down there and you have your Mexican bank account.
Something to look into
MV
KRACKMAN is right on the money with his profile of a "professional" gambler.....
but there is something i want to point out to people that hasnt been mentioned yet....
the professional gambler has changed over the years, nowadays the professional gambler is most likely someone who has made a career in another profession ie. stock market, real estate, lawyer or some other profession.....and made a comfortable enough living to pursue a career (or try) in sports betting......
the "professional" gamblers from the "old" days, were just that...gamblers... they werent limited to sports betting..... they were more like hustlers trying to make money whenever the opportunity arose.....poker, gin, dice, horses, and on the sports.......
back then even the best gamblers could end up broke....(Sonny R. a vegas legend had gone busted several times in his career)
gamblers making a million........and then losing a million wasnt that uncommon......
back then, the gambling icon of today B.W. had to sell cars to pay the book on tuesdays........
one of the main differences of todays professional gamblers and yesterdays......is that yesterdays gamblers often "booked" action also....in fact just about all of them did....
the ones that didnt book, moved money for the syndicates.....
IMo the professional gambler of today has a much better chance of being successful, he is privy to information, betting opportunities, numerous betting outlets, tons of advantages the gambler of old didnt have.......
its like this fellas, as recently as ten or twenty years ago.......you didnt stand a chance betting.......plain and simple
if you didnt know someone out west, or in the big shops on the east coast...........you were absolutley clue-less.....
one poster mentioned that he had been making a living from gambling for the last 5years.......congrats....
my first five years in this business was nothing but bumps and bruises........and im on the side thats supposed to win.....gl
but there is something i want to point out to people that hasnt been mentioned yet....
the professional gambler has changed over the years, nowadays the professional gambler is most likely someone who has made a career in another profession ie. stock market, real estate, lawyer or some other profession.....and made a comfortable enough living to pursue a career (or try) in sports betting......
the "professional" gamblers from the "old" days, were just that...gamblers... they werent limited to sports betting..... they were more like hustlers trying to make money whenever the opportunity arose.....poker, gin, dice, horses, and on the sports.......
back then even the best gamblers could end up broke....(Sonny R. a vegas legend had gone busted several times in his career)
gamblers making a million........and then losing a million wasnt that uncommon......
back then, the gambling icon of today B.W. had to sell cars to pay the book on tuesdays........
one of the main differences of todays professional gamblers and yesterdays......is that yesterdays gamblers often "booked" action also....in fact just about all of them did....
the ones that didnt book, moved money for the syndicates.....
IMo the professional gambler of today has a much better chance of being successful, he is privy to information, betting opportunities, numerous betting outlets, tons of advantages the gambler of old didnt have.......
its like this fellas, as recently as ten or twenty years ago.......you didnt stand a chance betting.......plain and simple
if you didnt know someone out west, or in the big shops on the east coast...........you were absolutley clue-less.....
one poster mentioned that he had been making a living from gambling for the last 5years.......congrats....
my first five years in this business was nothing but bumps and bruises........and im on the side thats supposed to win.....gl
I do it. I've been winning for 3 years now.
Others have made good points already in this thread. I try to foucs on two sports and make most (80 Percent) of my money in these two sports.
The sports are not mainstream (in terms of betting). I work very hard. I work pretty much year around. I probably don't bet maybe 5-10 days a year. The other 355-360 days I make bets. I don't work as many hours as some do. I work between 4-8 hours a day, 7 days a week. I do go on vacations. I just need internet access wherever I go. I have a graduate degree in business and have no desire to get a "real job." Before, I'd do this while in grad school and now that I'm out of school, I do this solely.
Overall some of the positives are
- You are your own boss.
- You can work anywhere as long as you have internet access.
- You don't have to wake up early.
- You can stay up til 4 am if you want handicapping games and then wake up at noon.
- You can go to the gym or play tennis at 2pm if you want while everyone else is at work.
Overall some of the negative things are
- You work alone. No friends from work.
- Can't tell most people what you do. Only my wife and very few friends and relatives know what I do.
- No guaranteed income. Income will vary drastically month to month.
-As good as you are, its hard to win every month. I was thinking I might pull it off this year, but lost a small amount for August after starting with 7 straight winning months.
-You don't really contribute to the well being of your society/country in terms of what you do. But you can donate money to charity and this usually will make you feel better.
-Everyone has a bad streak. It can last days or even weeks or even months. Fortuanately for me, it never goes beyond a couple of weeks.
Also treat this as a job. I've had to tell this to my wife and parents many times and they finally get it now. ( I don't know if they really get it, but making good money for 3 straight years kinds of shuts them up) .Just because you are at home doesn't mean you are free. You are at work
and need to treat it as work. I recommend having an office in your house. A seperate room where you set up your office . In that room is where you do your work. When my office door is shut, my wife knows not to bother me because I'm working.
Also this is a very hard way of making money.
Very few can do well at it. You need to be able to pick winners and know how to manage your money. You need lots of outs. The more the better imo. This is good for two reasons. First you can shop for the best line. Secondly, you can spread your money out w/ lots of books just in case a book goes down. You should try to not get too high or too low. Its enveitable that you will be happy if you make a lot in a week or down
if you have a bad week. But you have to look at it in a long term way. If you make 9k one week and lose 4k the next week, its ok as you are still up 5k for a 2 week period.
Also try to be organized. Know how much you are up and down in each sport. I think its nearly impossible to be really good in lots of sports. If I was, then I'd be making 7 figures.
Just focus on a couple and try to excel at those sports and you should be ok.
Also, call its sports investing, not sports betting or gambling. Because if you are doing this correctly, you are investing. I sure like it more than stock investing. There is no jack-ass financial analyst who will downgrade your stock causing you to lose money. The win/loss are determined on the field, court, track. It is just you and the bookmaker. 1 on 1. If you are good, you will win. If you aren't, you will lose. I kind of like to compare it to the wild wild west. 2 gunslingers. The bookie and the bettor (investor).
With all that said, there is nothing else in the world I'd rather do. I love what I do. I have a passion for what I do. That is what enables me to work nearly year round. I do very well. My wife, who has a much more prestigous job, respects what I do and also makes less than I do. And, I can hold my head high, knowing that I'm really good at what I do.
[This message was edited by red007 on September 10, 2003 at 10:43 AM.]
Others have made good points already in this thread. I try to foucs on two sports and make most (80 Percent) of my money in these two sports.
The sports are not mainstream (in terms of betting). I work very hard. I work pretty much year around. I probably don't bet maybe 5-10 days a year. The other 355-360 days I make bets. I don't work as many hours as some do. I work between 4-8 hours a day, 7 days a week. I do go on vacations. I just need internet access wherever I go. I have a graduate degree in business and have no desire to get a "real job." Before, I'd do this while in grad school and now that I'm out of school, I do this solely.
Overall some of the positives are
- You are your own boss.
- You can work anywhere as long as you have internet access.
- You don't have to wake up early.
- You can stay up til 4 am if you want handicapping games and then wake up at noon.
- You can go to the gym or play tennis at 2pm if you want while everyone else is at work.
Overall some of the negative things are
- You work alone. No friends from work.
- Can't tell most people what you do. Only my wife and very few friends and relatives know what I do.
- No guaranteed income. Income will vary drastically month to month.
-As good as you are, its hard to win every month. I was thinking I might pull it off this year, but lost a small amount for August after starting with 7 straight winning months.
-You don't really contribute to the well being of your society/country in terms of what you do. But you can donate money to charity and this usually will make you feel better.
-Everyone has a bad streak. It can last days or even weeks or even months. Fortuanately for me, it never goes beyond a couple of weeks.
Also treat this as a job. I've had to tell this to my wife and parents many times and they finally get it now. ( I don't know if they really get it, but making good money for 3 straight years kinds of shuts them up) .Just because you are at home doesn't mean you are free. You are at work
and need to treat it as work. I recommend having an office in your house. A seperate room where you set up your office . In that room is where you do your work. When my office door is shut, my wife knows not to bother me because I'm working.
Also this is a very hard way of making money.
Very few can do well at it. You need to be able to pick winners and know how to manage your money. You need lots of outs. The more the better imo. This is good for two reasons. First you can shop for the best line. Secondly, you can spread your money out w/ lots of books just in case a book goes down. You should try to not get too high or too low. Its enveitable that you will be happy if you make a lot in a week or down
if you have a bad week. But you have to look at it in a long term way. If you make 9k one week and lose 4k the next week, its ok as you are still up 5k for a 2 week period.
Also try to be organized. Know how much you are up and down in each sport. I think its nearly impossible to be really good in lots of sports. If I was, then I'd be making 7 figures.
Just focus on a couple and try to excel at those sports and you should be ok.
Also, call its sports investing, not sports betting or gambling. Because if you are doing this correctly, you are investing. I sure like it more than stock investing. There is no jack-ass financial analyst who will downgrade your stock causing you to lose money. The win/loss are determined on the field, court, track. It is just you and the bookmaker. 1 on 1. If you are good, you will win. If you aren't, you will lose. I kind of like to compare it to the wild wild west. 2 gunslingers. The bookie and the bettor (investor).
With all that said, there is nothing else in the world I'd rather do. I love what I do. I have a passion for what I do. That is what enables me to work nearly year round. I do very well. My wife, who has a much more prestigous job, respects what I do and also makes less than I do. And, I can hold my head high, knowing that I'm really good at what I do.
[This message was edited by red007 on September 10, 2003 at 10:43 AM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VG789:
question for the pros:
What is your average winning percentage?Would you say that its higher than 60%?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i was going to say, no way 60% but here are some numbers that give an idea of what it takes
56-57% is realistic number. at 57% you are approaching 10% (9.7%) return on turnover so if you can hit that on 500 bets of 2dimes each you will net $97k. another way to look at that is that 57% is the number needed to double your bankroll betting flat 2% over 500 bets.
btw, 60% is roughly 17% on turnover, a very high number, less than 300 bets needed to double br on 2% bets at that rate
i think along the lines of the poster atx who has often put forth idea here that you need to make lots of bets that have a reasonable positive expectation as it is better to trade off potential win % maximizition for lower volatility
question for the pros:
What is your average winning percentage?Would you say that its higher than 60%?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i was going to say, no way 60% but here are some numbers that give an idea of what it takes
56-57% is realistic number. at 57% you are approaching 10% (9.7%) return on turnover so if you can hit that on 500 bets of 2dimes each you will net $97k. another way to look at that is that 57% is the number needed to double your bankroll betting flat 2% over 500 bets.
btw, 60% is roughly 17% on turnover, a very high number, less than 300 bets needed to double br on 2% bets at that rate
i think along the lines of the poster atx who has often put forth idea here that you need to make lots of bets that have a reasonable positive expectation as it is better to trade off potential win % maximizition for lower volatility
For me, somewhere in the 55/56% range is fairly standard for NBA and college hoops and a bit higher for baseball and hockey. In the last 3 years I've average somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2000 wagers per year and an endless stream of interactives.
What really has helped me turn this into a career is the exchange rate from US dollars to Canadian, decent bonus offers from solid shops and the best of the bunch REDUCED JUICE. Once I got in the proper mindset, I was ready to take advantage of my opportunities.
What really has helped me turn this into a career is the exchange rate from US dollars to Canadian, decent bonus offers from solid shops and the best of the bunch REDUCED JUICE. Once I got in the proper mindset, I was ready to take advantage of my opportunities.
Red- Great post!
Amazing how long it took my Mom,Dad,Brother,and wife to be persuaded to not call me at 7pm on weeknights.
I thought I was the only one who says " I will call you back" CLICK! to people on a constant basis. Some people think I am rude for doing it but business is business.
CLASSIC THREAD
Amazing how long it took my Mom,Dad,Brother,and wife to be persuaded to not call me at 7pm on weeknights.
I thought I was the only one who says " I will call you back" CLICK! to people on a constant basis. Some people think I am rude for doing it but business is business.
CLASSIC THREAD
