Danish Troops Find Small Chemical Weapons Cache in Iraq

xpanda · Jan 13, 2004

A close friend of mine is from Baghdad, so thought I'd ask him the question posed here.

His response is that of course the Iraqis are happy to have Saddam out of power ... however ... the general sentiment (his family is still there) in Baghdad seems to be a growing resentment towards the US. In the first place, most Iraqis despise the US as much as they despised Saddam (for different reasons) and I get the impression that the US' victory is somewhat of a moral defeat for Iraqis. Having an enemy of sorts come to your rescue is degrading, I suppose. At any rate, Iraqis want nothing more than for the US to go away now, which of course isn't going to happen. They do not welcome the Western way of life, and are justifiably concerned that many of these values will be indirectly imposed on them.

Ali (my friend's name) says that had it been up to him, Saddam would have been assassinated by one of his own people, with the possible assistance of the US (certainly through asylum at the least.) In this way, Saddam is ousted, and Iraq does not have to endure the shame associated with a US insurrection, not to mention the unavoidable backlash by other MidEast and Muslim states.

Igetp2s · Jan 13, 2004

Listening to Lander is like listening to a filibuster in the Senate.

Igetp2s · Jan 13, 2004

Xpanda, that is an interesting post. Can I ask which type of muslim your friend is.

Ali (my friend's name) says that had it been up to him, Saddam would have been assassinated by one of his own people, with the possible assistance of the US (certainly through asylum at the least.) In this way, Saddam is ousted, and Iraq does not have to endure the shame associated with a US insurrection, not to mention the unavoidable backlash by other MidEast and Muslim states.

I think everyone would agree with your friend. If it were possible to oust Saddam without a war, I find it hard to believe anyone would oppose that option.

Phaedrus · Jan 13, 2004

posted by SENDITIN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
And bottom line it's the Iraqi people whose opinion counts the most as to our invasion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is this sort of feel-goodery that is astounding to see from a category of person who has no qualms about carpet-bombing those who do not agree with our notions as to who should be running whcih Arabic nation.

Aside from all of the specious arguments about whether or not Hussein was fit to lead the Iraqis, which are utterly irrelevant -- we do not overthrow every single dictator in the world, nor do we try to or even express a desire to do so, so to say that Hussein "had to go" because he was a tyrannical dictator is a bit of a joke -- when did our government become constitutionally-authorised to topple the governments of other nations? I realise that we have done it again and again in our history, especially since our great experiment with the Phillipines, but it is not in fact an appropriate function of the federal government of the United States of America to be the protector, policeman, or nanny of the world.

This is why I seldom even get into these arguments anymore; the facts of the matter are not going to change no matter what happens. If we find a stash of nukes, kiddie porn, crack, and the stolen lunch money of Kurdish schoolchildren, it will not justify this war. If we find a day planner that says "4:00pm have Sonji buy new corn holders. 4:30pm launch anthrax attack against Cleveland" this war will not have been justified. To say that this is the case would be to insinuate that Hussein would have been perfectly justified in attacking America when the Clinton started calling for his removal from power.

It is so apalling that so many Americans are capable of this Clorox morality, that somehow the things that we do and say are not subject to the same basic reality as that of other nations.

Phaedrus

xpanda · Jan 13, 2004

Igetp2s: he is a Sunni Muslim.

Phaedrus: Seriously, will you marry me?

Igetp2s · Jan 13, 2004

"If we find a stash of nukes, kiddie porn, crack, and the stolen lunch money of Kurdish schoolchildren, it will not justify this war. If we find a day planner that says "4:00pm have Sonji buy new corn holders. 4:30pm launch anthrax attack against Cleveland" this war will not have been justified.'

That has got to be the most mind blowing statement I have seen in a very long time, which says something based on the crap Lander plants in here.

All I can say to that us thank God you're not in charge.

SENDITIN · Jan 13, 2004

Xpanda,

Phaedrus is too much like you...remember opposites attract...will you marry me?(I'll require a pretty air tight pre-nup though)

xpanda · Jan 13, 2004

As romantic as a pre-nup sounds (and ironic coming from gambling board addicts) marrying a Republican would be as unseemly as subjecting myself to daily gynecological exams. Now, if you want to swing all the way and extoll the virtues of Libertarianism, we might have something to talk about ...

SENDITIN · Jan 13, 2004

Who said I was a Republican?

xpanda · Jan 13, 2004

Okay, I'll bite -- what are you, then?

SENDITIN · Jan 13, 2004

No affiliation...that way I don't get fund raising calls

Jointpleasure · Jan 13, 2004

Marry her Phaedrus, as that last posts of yours pretty much proves your losing it fast.

Phaedrus · Jan 14, 2004

Yeah, I'm losing it alright.

You know whatthe definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Tests Show No Agent in Iraq Mortar Shells

By Matthew Rosenberg
Associated Press Writer

CAMP EDEN, Iraq (AP) -- U.S. tests on mortar shells found in Iraq and suspected of containing blister agents have turned up negative, though further tests will be conducted, a Danish army spokesman said Wednesday.

The 36 shells, discovered last week by Danish troops, are believed to be from the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Four initial tests by British and Danish experts came up positive for blister agents, Danish spokesman, Capt. Kim Vibe Michelsen, told The Associated Press.

But later tests by U.S. experts from the Iraq Survey Group on five of the shells have shown no trace of chemical weapons, the Danish military said.

However, more tests are needed, and the results will be sent to the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory, the military said in a statement.

A U.S. official said the tests suggest the munitions may not contain blister agents, as initial field tests had indicated.

The official, speaking on condition of anonimity, said that the test results aren't definitive, but "it seems to be turning away from being a blister agent." The official said there are chemicals associated with certain munitions, such as phospohrous, that can produce false positives.

Initial tests by troops in the field are designed to favor a positive reading, erring on the side of caution to protect soldiers. More sophisticated tests are often necessary.

"The Iraqi Survey Group has never encountered this type of shells before," the Danish military said. "They will therefore take a shell for closer investigation," including a look into why the four initial tests gave a positive result.

Before invading Iraq, the United States said Saddam Hussein's regime had stockpiles of mustard gas, a World War I-era blister agent that is stored in liquid form. The chemical burns skin, eyes and lungs.

U.S. intelligence officials also claimed Iraq had failed to destroy stocks of sarin, cyclosarin and VX in violation of U.N. resolutions. So far, however, no such materials have been found nine months after the collapse of Saddam's regime.

The Danish troops initially found 36 shells, exposed by rain, in the ground outside a village near Qurnah on Friday. The Danish army's Camp Eden is near Qurnah.

"This was a stash. They were stacked and ordered and wrapped in plastic," Michelsen said, adding they must have been buried 10 or more years ago.

Michelsen said the 120mm shells, which have no markings indicating the country of manufacture, "don't look like any known" mortars in the Iraqi arsenal.

Michelsen said the Danes have unearthed 50 shells so far and at least 50 more are believed still buried. Villagers told the troops that they had found about 400 or more some years ago and threw them in the Tigris River, Michelsen said.

The flat, muddy terrain where they were found was the scene of intense fighting during the Iran-Iraq war. The villagers told the Danes that one bloody battle was fought in the area in 1984 for seven days.

The villagers said they fled the area and returned after the battle to find all their cattle dead and the area littered with human bodies, Michelsen said. He quoted the villagers as saying that none of the dead bore gunshot wounds, but all were bleeding from the mouth and nose.

"This is a clear indication of chemical weapons use," he said.

He said the villagers have also spoken of people coughing blood, and livestock getting sick and bleeding from the mouth. But the time frame for the reported sickness is not clear.

Since the war ended last year, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.

Other discoveries early in the U.S.-led occupation turned out to be old caches that already had been tagged by U.N. inspectors and were scheduled for destruction.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phaedrus

Phaedrus · Jan 14, 2004

xpanda

Flattered but off the market. I just got out of my fourth marriage and in extreme need of a breather.

Phaedrus

lander · Jan 14, 2004

Phaedrus,
Although that article was expected to make the back pages and complete dismiss the claims of the front page declarations, despite fanatical media and right-wing expectations written just days earlier of "Danish Troops Find Small Chemical Weapons Cache in Iraq", - don't you agree that Floyd would be in good faith to change his previously unsubstaniated title of this thread since it has now been shown that this it was an outright lie?

I won't hold my breath.

D2bets · Jan 14, 2004

This has to be the 4th or 5th time that suspected weapons have later turned out negative. I think they figure if they float these every now and then and then just bury the final true results that people will just assume WMD's were found one of these times.

xpanda · Jan 14, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Phaedrus:
_xpanda_

Flattered but off the market. I just got out of my fourth marriage and in extreme need of a breather.

Phaedrus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy shit. Probably too significant an age difference, in light of that info. Ah, well, I guess I've still got Senditin to fall back on.

Phaedrus · Jan 14, 2004

posted by xpanda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Holy shit. Probably too significant an age difference, in light of that info. Ah, well, I guess I've still got Senditin to fall back on.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just turned 32 last month. New car, high miles.

Phaedrus

Oceans11 · Jan 14, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> You know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds a bit like gambling to me...

xpanda · Jan 14, 2004

Phaedrus:

32 years old with four ex-wives?????? Wow. And here I thought 33 and no marriage was a bit unusual. Well, at any rate, consider the proposal revoked. There is obviously something staggeringly wrong with you.