CLAP!!!, CLAP!!! TO BRAZIL...

Brazil4Worldcup2002 · Jan 18, 2004

Each country has a right to control it's borders as it sees fit. I think it's fine to fingerprint foreigners entering the U.S., ESPECIALLY those from Brazil, as well as Argentina and Venezuela

If each country has a right to control its borders as it sees fit then Brazil has every right to control its borders, its called sovereingty.

By the way American, have you ever been to those countries to say are shit? I have been to all 3 (in fact I am from Brazil), and i`ll tell you this, I wouldnt live in the US if it was the last place on Earth.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 18, 2004

Alex,

I'll play the devil's advocate until American reads the thread. By denigrating the appearance of Brazil, he might be saying that as a tourist.

To say something of that nature you undoubtedly have to compare it to where you live or have lived and in that sense he considers it a rat-hole. I wouldn't consider St. Louis a total rat-hole but when you cross the border my perception would change in an instant. That's just one example of many.

I don't know where he lives but he could live in say Thousand Oaks and when you compare that to Brazil or Argentina and sees the squalor that some call home it affects him.

If you would rather live in South Africa than the United States more power to you, Alex. As a side note, I didn't question Brazil's policies toward visitors merely the motives behind them.

American · Jan 18, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:
to privacy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For example: Our safety. Personally, I don't a rat's ass about you or anyone else's feelings when they come to this country. IMO the U.S. should do a Brazil to Brazil and start require buccal swabs or full cavity searches. They can do what they want but do it for the right reasons. Not some knee-jerk reaction to express their disdain.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. The brilliant diplomats of Brazil were very clear that their fingerprinting requirement was a knee jerk reaction to U.S. wartime security measures. These dipshits seem to forget we're at war, once again.

I like the way you think, Uncle Moneybags.

[This message was edited by American on January 18, 2004 at 10:28 AM.]

American · Jan 18, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by A2345exxx:

I have been to all 3 (in fact I am from Brazil), and i`ll tell you this, I wouldnt live in the US if it was the last place on Earth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad to hear that. Stay out. Go back to your third world socialist fantasyland. The U.S. doesn't want scum like you up there. (If I catch you in Hooter's you'll wish you were never born.)

xpanda · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:
xpanda,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>the US government is ignoring two strong principles which underline democracy: the presumption of innocence, and the right to privacy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to be a dick about it, but I think you're just quoting the media. If you know the U.S. Constitution that well, then I withdraw my accusation. The Constitution doesn't guarantee a presumption of innocense that I can remember.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If you let them off the hook for this, it will show a willingness to compromise on important values. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For example: Our safety. Personally, I don't a rat's ass about you or anyone else's feelings when they come to this country. IMO the U.S. should do a Brazil to Brazil and start require buccal swabs or full cavity searches. They can do what they want but do it for the right reasons. Not some knee-jerk reaction to express their disdain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A. My quote has little to do with the US Constitution, as I use those principles to discuss what underlies democracy, and, last I checked, the US wasn't the only country to uphold the principles of democratic freedom. Don't you find it rather ironic that in order to both 'defend' and 'spread' democracy from and to the rest of the world that your government chooses measures which by their very nature threaten it? Strange.

B. Fine that you don't give a rat's ass about who comes to your country, but if the people (and government) of the US truly want to live in a vaccuum, and hold such dramatic disdain and disregard for the rest of the free world, then perhaps it should do this in entirety, instead of choosing to do so only when it suits them.

Generally speaking, the underlying argument to love or hate these new border control measures are first dependant on whether or not you buy into the idea that the US is in serious enough danger to warrant them. Frankly, I do not. I believe that between your media and your government, that the events of 9/11 (not to downplay that day) are being used as a platform to create a current of insecurity and fear. Ironically enough, fear is the principle tool of terrorist organizations. You're badly losing this so-called War on Terror, and you don't even know it.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 19, 2004

xpanda,

We'll have to disagree on that. IMO Democracy isn't a synonym for freedom only a form of government. It's easy to say that they're not in danger when you're relatively isolated from their daily grind.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> if the people (and government) of the US truly want to live in a vaccuum, and hold such dramatic disdain and disregard for the rest of the free world, then perhaps it should do this in entirety, instead of choosing to do so only when it suits them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When no one will challenge you, you can do any damn thing you choose.

I think you're afraid of the U.S. a lot more than we're afraid of the terrorists.

xpanda · Jan 19, 2004

Afraid of the US? Not really (although Bush is another story ...) However, I am significantly disgusted with the current administration, and have much contempt for the notion of superpowers to begin with, country of origin notwithstanding. The US is easily the most hypocritical nation in the manner with which it handles its foreign policies, which drives me bonkers. Unfortunately for someone with opinions like my own, being Canadian necessarily means that what your government does or does not do inevitably effects several factions of daily life here. We sleep on the passenger side of a high-motion waterbed ... when your President rolls over, we're in for some waves. It is from this truism that my opinions and concerns arise.

American · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by xpanda:

I believe that between your media and your government, that the events of 9/11 (not to downplay that day) are being used as a platform to create a current of insecurity and fear. Ironically enough, fear is the principle tool of terrorist organizations. You're badly losing this so-called War on Terror, and you don't even know it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is this fear shit you keep bringing up? Who is afraid? Afraid of what? That some bustout Arab is going to kill himself. You're nuts if you think American people are living their lives in fear. Do you think Americans are walking around thinking about terrorists all day? Nobody even talks about it. People are too busy living their lives. I know that is going to disappoint you. There's a far greater chance of being a victim of a car crash than being a victim of a terrorist attack. We might as well go around being afraid to drive too. Maybe I'll get struck by lightning.

American · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by xpanda:
We sleep on the passenger side of a high-motion waterbed ... when your President rolls over, we're in for some waves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you Canadians still have to sit on the back of the bus?

WalkofLife · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Maybe I'll get struck by lightning.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that only were an "enlighting" experience for you, then it might be worth the pain.

Wait, let me beat you to it...

"Walk I hope some dude hung like a horse shoves it up your arse..."

As I said Amerifag, as arousing and thrilling as that might sound to you, I'm inevitably straight.

Xpanda, some discussions are rather futile, bro.

xpanda · Jan 19, 2004

I am not suggesting that Americans spend the better part of their days in gas masks or securing their windows with duct tape. However, how often do you read that a new move by Bush is 'in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks' ... ??? The notion of it re-occuring is being rammed down your throats to the point that you have become compliant on such fabrications as WMDs in Iraq coupled with a moral self-righteousness of America the Victim, the Healer, the Protector/Installer of Democracy Abroad that your posts alone confirm.

On this message board I have seen threads that state worry over the 'orange alert' and responses to anti-war individuals using defenses such as 'when a plane flies into a building in Montreal ...' as constant justification for expensive and ineffective security measures.

The notion of fear is a rampant foundation in the US to begin with. How many people on this message board either own a gun or know someone who does? Protecting yourselves from 'the bad guy' is fundamentally perpetual in your country ... I can't even begin to describe how incapable of relating to that I am.

So, when you say that there is no 'rampant fear' in the US, I will beg to differ ... through language, timing, and policy, both your media and your government keep the threat of attack alive and well when in fact it may be completely moot at this point.

American · Jan 19, 2004

Walk of Life...God damn it. I bring up something completely non-sexual like getting struck by lightning, and somehow you turn it into something gay. WTF. You need your hole busted by Mr. Winkle. That would be appropriate. www.mrwinkle.com

WalkofLife · Jan 19, 2004

I'll be damned if I click on that link, fag...

You're easy to have fun with.

newbie666 · Jan 19, 2004

americans or north americans...

when.. north americans are succesfull in something... if they are not Quakers=Blondes,
they name their etnic.. an italo-american Robert Deniro blah blah,,, afro-american blah blah...

how about those Quaker-Americans(99% North American Blondes)
who threw the tea to the sea..., aren't classified into any etnic, when they use to be, the slave army (Barbarics-Germanics-Scandinavia) of the Ancient Roma...(Latins)...

UncleMoneybags · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> However, how often do you read that a new move by Bush is 'in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks' ... ??? The notion of it re-occuring is being rammed down your throats to the point that you have become compliant on such fabrications as WMDs in Iraq coupled with a moral self-righteousness of America the Victim, the Healer, the Protector/Installer of Democracy Abroad that your posts alone confirm. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not fear of terrorists. It's called prudence. If something happened and it was devastating and you don't take countermeasures to try to prevent it from coming to fruition then you're just hoping.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> The notion of fear is a rampant foundation in the US to begin with. How many people on this message board either own a gun or know someone who does? Protecting yourselves from 'the bad guy' is fundamentally perpetual in your country ... I can't even begin to describe how incapable of relating to that I am. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I own 4 firearms. If you're afraid of guns, so be it. Owning a gun isn't for everyone but don't imply that I'm afraid just because I carry. A gun is a tool much like a knife you can use it to hurt or help. It's not like I go everywhere trying to get in a situation where I can legally draw my firearm and use it. In fact, I have drawn it twice and never fired. I take self-defense very seriously, and it's a shame that you don't. All it takes is one rape and your life is changed forever.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> So, when you say that there is no 'rampant fear' in the US, I will beg to differ ... through language, timing, and policy, both your media and your government keep the threat of attack alive and well when in fact it may be completely moot at this point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never underestimate your enemy, xpanda. For when you do, they will catch you with your pants down and the damage will be even worse.

xpanda · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:

I own 4 firearms. If you're afraid of guns, so be it. Owning a gun isn't for everyone but don't imply that I'm afraid just because I carry. A gun is a tool much like a knife you can use it to hurt or help. It's not like I go everywhere trying to get in a situation where I can legally draw my firearm and use it. In fact, I have drawn it twice and never fired. I take self-defense very seriously, and it's a shame that you don't. All it takes is one rape and your life is changed forever.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This paragraph completely proves my point.

And do not presume that I have suffered no life-altering traumas to date. Scarred I am, scared I am not.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> This paragraph completely proves my point.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does it prove your point? That you're careless and foolhardy positions against self-defense did not prevent one damn thing from happening to you. If you want to be a victim, that's fine. I don't and I'll continue to protect myself until the end with no apologies to you. There are all kinds of malcontents walking around and you're only giving them more confidence to continue their life of crime.

xpanda · Jan 19, 2004

Sticking to your rape analogy, in the US 1 in 4 women suffers some form of sexual assault in her lifetime ... in Canada, 1 in 4 women suffers some form of sexual assault in her lifetime.

So, please, tell me ... how does my failure to own a gun contribute to my failure to prevent bad things from happening?

On this very issue of gun ownership and its need or lack thereof, Canada and the US are unbelievably different. In fact, when you ask Canadians why they would prefer to live here, they generally cite gun ownership as the main reason. We simply do not have a paranoia of bad things happening to us. With the exception of murder, which occurs at a much higher per capita rate in the US than in Canada, our crime rates are roughly the same. Yet we aren't afraid of it on a constant enough basis to push for US-like gun laws.

To suggest that the citizens' failure to carry a weapon is welcoming criminal activity is positively absurd. An argument could easily be made that when the citizens have guns, the criminals are more likely to have them as well, increasing the chances of the crime becoming more serious.

Either way you look at it, I'd much rather live in a society where the likelihood of the guy on the subway next to me packing heat is slim to none, than to believe I should be carrying just to level the playing field.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 19, 2004

I'm more comfortable with the rape talk because I used to volunteer for CRC. Believe me, most date rapes could be avoided with common sense, not carrying a gun. My gun talk has more to do with the so-called stranger rape. Those are the real damaging rapes. I'm not saying all rapes are preventable. However, if you can prevent even 20% it's better than nothing. I don't use crime rates in analysis very often just because of the up-and-down nature of it. New York's murder rate is lower than say Houston or Detroit if I'm not mistaken, but in 5 years it might change.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> To suggest that the citizens' failure to carry a weapon is welcoming criminal activity is positively absurd. An argument could easily be made that when the citizens have guns, the criminals are more likely to have them as well, increasing the chances of the crime becoming more serious.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I meant that when criminals are confronted with firearms on a consistent basis they are less likely to act on impulse if nothing else than someone might plug them and they're pathetic existence is over. Criminals will always have guns. The black market operates irrespective of any laws passed. That includes Canada. You might be repulsed by guns, but I imagine there are Canadians that don't feel the same and have a weapon.

Brazil4Worldcup2002 · Jan 19, 2004

I assume that carrying a gun MAKES someone THINK that they are safer when as xpanda rightly argued, the opposite is true. Psychology plays a big part.