CLAP!!!, CLAP!!! TO BRAZIL...

UncleMoneybags · Jan 16, 2004

xpanda,

Surely, you can admit that certain countries have more undesireable characters than others? Your apprehension is a little extreme IMO. I haven't lived the perfect life. I've been arrested i.e. my 'prints are on file. I'm not quite sure how fingerprints can be used to violate someone's privacy. Hell, I could go out and take your picture with my camera and might elicit some anger. Are you really that sheltered? Please help me understand.

American · Jan 16, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by A2345exxx:
I wonder what does more harm to the US, actual terrorist attacks or the fear generated by a potential terrorist attack...
interesting question...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just got back from the states. This is going to disappoint a lot of you, but Americans aren't walking around in fear in the U.S. I saw about a million people on New Year's Eve in Times Square...they didn't look very afraid to me. Neither did the enormous crowds in Orlando and Las Vegas and other places. You morons think these Turbin-heads have got us coming and going....NOT. Americans aren't afraid of shit. Everyone just carries on with their lives as usual. You only think Americans are afraid because YOU would be afraid in a similar situation. I personally am not walking around in fear that some little Arab scumbag is going to kill himself near me. If you ask me, THEY are the ones afraid.

All this has caused the U.S. to take more precautions, that's it. The governments anti-terrorism measures have made many young Arab scumbag would-be terrorists consider taking up another hobby. The U.S. has done a great job because there hasn't been shit since 9/11. Where were all those scumbags ready to kill themselves when we went into Iraq and extracted that f*cking murderous, torturous prick and his in-bred sons? Weren't all kinds of attacks supposed to take place? P-L-E-A-S-E. You give these terrorist scumbags WAY too much credit.

As far as the finger-printing goes, only criminals need to worry about that, so what the f*ck is the problem?

WildBill · Jan 16, 2004

Studies have shown that the US government loses hundreds of millions of dollars a year in tourist spending due to visa rules. The visas are arbitrarily handed out, many times based on the attitude of the agent. There are no rules and no appeals and if rejected for whatever reason the $100 application fee is wasted money. The US makes it difficult too, they often say you must bring proof of your intended trip, generally airline tickets, but if you weren't sure they would let you in, would you invest hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a trip the consulate might just deny you the privilege of taking??? The whole visa policy is stupid, it prevents nothing. It is intended to demoralize those that would even dare spend their tourism dollars in this country. Of course they claim it is to prevent illegal immigration, but you tell me have their rules been stopping anyone? How many illegals even have passports? The rules are stupid and this fingerprinting rule is just taking it further. Terrorists will find ways around the rules, but the people that we want to come visit and spend money in the country will be the ones that say forget all this, we will just go to another country for our vacation instead.

American · Jan 16, 2004

Without getting deeply into the subject, I don't like the way visas are granted either, especially how they don't return the $100 application fee when it's denied. The process seems too subjective also. The $100 represents a week's salary or more for many applicants.

However, the fingerprinting is done when they enter the states after already having been granted the visa. I think it's a totally different topic.

WildBill · Jan 16, 2004

I wouldn't put too much on the fingerprinting, most people will get over it soon. I mean it is rather crude because it goes against all rights that Americans supposedly have in terms of privacy and presumptions of innocence, but I agree it isn't exactly the worst thing they could do to people. The thing that will make it bad is if they follow through and make visas required for countries that can't meet their demands for the passports. That is a horrendously difficult task, creating technology and issuing passports to whole populations in a matter of months? How ridiculous, it may work in the US because a relatively small percentage of Americans have passports, but many European and the Japanese have near 100% issuance to their population.

WalkofLife · Jan 17, 2004

I happen to hold an European passport (and could get an American passport if I wanted to)and that fact alone has spared me of many hassles. I've been to various countries and never have I been treated like a criminal. I agree with WildBill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> ...I mean it is rather crude because it goes against all rights that Americans supposedly have in terms of privacy and presumptions of innocence, but I agree it isn't exactly the worst thing they could do to people... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

O.K. I don't have a reason to worry about it, so I might as well just let them take my fvcking finger prints next time I go visit for Jazz Fest or a rock concert or Vegas. That's not the core of the matter, the core of the matter is: Why does the American government believe they have the right to acquire personal information like that? I believe policies like these can only be implemented by a fascist government and history has many examples. Then again, it's merely my opinion.

Now let me ask you all a question? Why is it wrong for Brazil or any other country in the world to implement the same policies that America is applying to visitors? I mean if there's nothing wrong about it, why not make it reciprocous?

I think Brazil's move is a brilliant diplomatic move. Wil they lose revenue in form of tourist dollars? Most likely. But they're taking a stand. They are demmanding to be treated with respect and they will in turn, show the same courtesy. That's really simple.

AirForce1 · Jan 17, 2004

One of the main reasons I like Brazil.....soccor chicks!!

American · Jan 17, 2004

F*ck all these "little-train-that-could" countries trying to make their big stand against the U.S.A.... Brazil brilliant? LMFAO. Yes,ok Walk of Life,, they're modern day geniuses.

Each country has a right to control it's borders as it sees fit. I think it's fine to fingerprint foreigners entering the U.S., ESPECIALLY those from Brazil, as well as Argentina and Venezuela...three shit countries with a strong tendancy to the left.

It's funny how foreigners (especially central- and south- Americans) go around saying how much they hate Americans and the U.S.A., while at the same time, they expect to be permitted to come and go as they please in the United States, which is the greatest country in the world to live in BTW.

If the incredibly brilliant geniuses of Brazil want to fingerprint, that's fine. But to say that it's in reciprocation for America's new wartime security measures is moronic. Do they think that this incredibly brilliant diplomatic ploy is going to make the U.S. cave in and rescind it's wartime policy? America has better things to do with it's time. F*ck Brazil and all the other socialist anti-American "little trains that could."

WalkofLife · Jan 17, 2004

American, what a clear intelligence you posses, dude.

WildBill · Jan 17, 2004

Gee and people wonder why the world hates us when a guy with a name "American" says that. Hmmm, real mystery to me

American · Jan 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Walk of Life:
American, what a clear intelligence you posses, dude.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, me and your Einstein's from Brazil. Take your European passport and shove it up your ass.

WalkofLife · Jan 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Yes, me and your Einstein's from Brazil. Take your European passport and shove it up your ass.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As pleasent and arousing as that might sound to you, that cavity is an exit only in my case.

Enjoy, dude.

American · Jan 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by WildBill:
Gee and people wonder why the world hates us when a guy with a name "American" says that. Hmmm, real mystery to me

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Americans don't care if "the world" loves us, hates us, worships us, or has any other feelings regarding Americans. And why should they care? We're sending expeditions to Mars while most other countries are trying to get electricity and running water hooked up.

Walk of life...Sir, I hope you get a full cavity search next time you go to the U.S. for those obscene gestures you posted at me.

WalkofLife · Jan 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Walk of life...Sir, I hope you get a full cavity search next time you go to the U.S. for those obscene gestures you posted at me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wishful thinking, Amerifag? That shit was funny... gotta give you that. So, you're not too smart, but you're funny.

American · Jan 17, 2004

I'm smart enough to know that the U.S. of A. is where it's at, and I'm smart enough to know that Americans don't have to take shit from anyone. That's more than I can say for you, chump.

As for my sense of humor, I have my moments. I'm glad you were amused...laughter is a good thing. The world can do with more of it.

angusr · Jan 17, 2004

American · Jan 17, 2004

He meant "MORONS" with a Boston accent....hence "MORANS".

xpanda · Jan 18, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:
xpanda,

Surely, you can admit that certain countries have more undesireable characters than others? Your apprehension is a little extreme IMO. I haven't lived the perfect life. I've been arrested i.e. my 'prints are on file. I'm not quite sure how fingerprints can be used to violate someone's privacy. Hell, I could go out and take your picture with my camera and might elicit some anger. Are you really that sheltered? Please help me understand.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until recently, fingerprinting has been reserved for individuals who are facing criminal charges or are entering a career in law enforcement or politics. Since people visiting the US do not qualify for the latter, they are left feeling as though they are being treated as potential criminals based solely on their place of birth. Stating that there are certain countries with more undesirable characters than others is an insult given that no country, including the US, could claim to be completely free of undesirables.

With this new policy, the US government is ignoring two strong principles which underline democracy: the presumption of innocence, and the right to privacy. If you let them off the hook for this, it will show a willingness to compromise on important values.

If Canada were considering a policy like this, I would be equally unimpressed. I believe that forgiving the treatment of strangers in a manner that you would not treat yourselves is ultimately dangerous. How you treat those who land on your doorstep ultimately shapes how you treat those who live in your house.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 18, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>

quote:
Until recently, fingerprinting has been reserved for individuals who are facing criminal charges <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to disagree there as you only have to be arrested to get 'printed or at least where I've lived.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Stating that there are certain countries with more undesirable characters than others is an insult given that no country, including the US, could claim to be completely free of undesirables. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never stated that the U.S. is a land of do-gooders. The difference is that they live here and these other people are unknown visitors. They might be terrorists or just people looking to take a load off. It's a crap shoot. One that I wouldn't want to risk an American life to try.

UncleMoneybags · Jan 18, 2004

xpanda,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>the US government is ignoring two strong principles which underline democracy: the presumption of innocence, and the right to privacy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to be a dick about it, but I think you're just quoting the media. If you know the U.S. Constitution that well, then I withdraw my accusation. The Constitution doesn't guarantee a presumption of innocense that I can remember.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If you let them off the hook for this, it will show a willingness to compromise on important values. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For example: Our safety. Personally, I don't a rat's ass about you or anyone else's feelings when they come to this country. IMO the U.S. should do a Brazil to Brazil and start require buccal swabs or full cavity searches. They can do what they want but do it for the right reasons. Not some knee-jerk reaction to express their disdain.