Pat- Just Having Fun, Man LOL
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patrickmcirish@hotmail.com
I will take what you have to say under advisement Angelle. I was told a coordinated attack on me was coming and boy did it ever. I won't ever quit though. I've let down enough players in this lifetime to look the other way all the time. Do you ever think enough advertisers here can fail that something new should be looked at? How many stiff books are okay?
One?
Two?
Five?
Fifty?
Five thousand?
Is there ever a point where the site needs to make a concerted effort to make changes like I have tried to get done? Is there ever a time when it's okay for people like me to ask for more? Should we sit by passivley like all the employees are telling me I should do as book after book goes down ? Think about it. Or is it always going to be attack someone like me speaking out against this stuff. I do understand why others don't speak out, it's a lot of heat. A book goes down and stiffs the players but I am somehow the bad guy here? LOL. All the shills in the world can't fool everyone and that is not my worry anyway. Wagers Paradise had one employee and worked out of the back room of an established book, one call may have saved some people!! At least put some doubt in people's minds. Was all this worth the advertising money?
Anyway I appreciate the fact you and I can disagree without the comments made by others. I suppose until you see it from the front row people getting beat out of their money just how much it bothers me. I do not feel guilty for speaking out against this sort of inaction. Only wish others would as well......
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
I will take what you have to say under advisement Angelle. I was told a coordinated attack on me was coming and boy did it ever. I won't ever quit though. I've let down enough players in this lifetime to look the other way all the time. Do you ever think enough advertisers here can fail that something new should be looked at? How many stiff books are okay?
One?
Two?
Five?
Fifty?
Five thousand?
Is there ever a point where the site needs to make a concerted effort to make changes like I have tried to get done? Is there ever a time when it's okay for people like me to ask for more? Should we sit by passivley like all the employees are telling me I should do as book after book goes down ? Think about it. Or is it always going to be attack someone like me speaking out against this stuff. I do understand why others don't speak out, it's a lot of heat. A book goes down and stiffs the players but I am somehow the bad guy here? LOL. All the shills in the world can't fool everyone and that is not my worry anyway. Wagers Paradise had one employee and worked out of the back room of an established book, one call may have saved some people!! At least put some doubt in people's minds. Was all this worth the advertising money?
Anyway I appreciate the fact you and I can disagree without the comments made by others. I suppose until you see it from the front row people getting beat out of their money just how much it bothers me. I do not feel guilty for speaking out against this sort of inaction. Only wish others would as well......
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was told a coordinated attack on me was coming and boy did it ever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You been hanging out with Butch Patrick?
You been hanging out with Butch Patrick?
Pat,
I can totally understand your frustration and aggervation. And I admire the fact that you speak your mind and that you are not worried about what others say.. never said differently. All I am asking is for you to look at all the sides first, as I try to do the same.
Your concern for the gambler is admiriable, but I feel as if you are being one-sided and are also failing to see the general concern this site also has.
Anyway, I will email you now.
Thanks!
P.S- "I was told a coordinated attack on me was coming and boy did it ever"
huh? I am not at war. Nor was this coordinated.. please have more respect for me than that.. I think you know after our conversation that I speak for myself and only myself.
I can totally understand your frustration and aggervation. And I admire the fact that you speak your mind and that you are not worried about what others say.. never said differently. All I am asking is for you to look at all the sides first, as I try to do the same.
Your concern for the gambler is admiriable, but I feel as if you are being one-sided and are also failing to see the general concern this site also has.
Anyway, I will email you now.
Thanks!
P.S- "I was told a coordinated attack on me was coming and boy did it ever"
huh? I am not at war. Nor was this coordinated.. please have more respect for me than that.. I think you know after our conversation that I speak for myself and only myself.
"Or is it always going to be attack someone like me speaking out against this stuff"
I hope you never feel that way.
I hope people feel free to speak their mind.
All I am asking is for you to take a step back and look at the whole picture. You are very passionate and that is a good trait to have. I just think that you get so invloved on one thing that you fail to see the whole picture.
I hope you never feel that way.
I hope people feel free to speak their mind.
All I am asking is for you to take a step back and look at the whole picture. You are very passionate and that is a good trait to have. I just think that you get so invloved on one thing that you fail to see the whole picture.
PM,I think it would be a mistake for you leave.People have disputes here all the time.The give and take is what makes this forum strong.Of course Ken has an agenda,after all he is a business man.He however does allow all points of view to be voiced.This is forum is a great example of the sum being greater than the parts combined.Working for a book I believe it is valuable for people to questionthe integrety of books when there is doubt.It is good for the industry,for the bettors and for the legit books.I think you leaving would hurt all 3.I for one always look forward to your opinions,whether I agree with them or not.Eithre way good luck with all your endevours.
Judge - not going anywhere, why do people keep saying that? At least not to my knowledge. The only thing I have left is the board room as Peep informed me he would be more comfortable without me. I understood and I did as he wished. BTW if I got snippy with you yesterday Judge I apologize sir, no need for that sort of stuff. On the book side there is few I look to as more reasonable than you.
I made this post across the street and will copy it here:
>>>>>Upon further review I would have to lean towards Mr Chad, really easy guy to talk to and I liked him almost immediately. More importantly was the folks we have all come to love and cherish (
) are still affiliated with this place. I have no problems with this group.
To my defense let me say yesterday I had my ass on my shoulders over Wagers Paradise officially stiffing their players. Another book on the RX that advertised only there (that I know of) biting the bullet and taking down posters. Yesterday I was angry to begin with and some of my posts reflected that. However quite frankly I would probably want to talk to Buckeye sports or any other book in the same situation again, when you have a place like the RX not wanting to ask any questions someone has to. Think of it from a players perspective:
- Wagers Paradise (WP) officially shuts down and stiffs the players over there.
- WP has posted to the fact they were affiliated with Buckeye Sports.
- WP leased office space from Buckeye Sports.
- Buckeye Sports was answering phones and taking wagers for WP.
- And lastly though this was contested, a player claims he was told the places were the same by a clerk who answered the phone at Buckeye sports!!
So with this information I think a little doubt on some people's mind was not completely out of line. If anyone didn't read the book I posted over at RX I think the guy had a plausible explanation for all of it. Hard for him to come in and set the record straight that WP was not affiliated with his book if he never saw the post to begin with. He admitted WP leased space and they answered the phones but that was the extent of their involvement and I believe it. A few other things I wondered about got answered in a round about way as well.
From my end it was all good. Though I may wait a little longer next time I will not say I won't force the issue again. As players with our nuts hanging out to dry it is our duty to check up on things, it is our money at risk, not the watchdog sites. I do apologize for any disruption I may have casued his fine book but even he understood perfectly a few questions and answers were not out of line in this situation. Hell I like the guy, if I see value in his lines I may end up posting up with the guy even after this. LOL. I promise I will NEVER intentionally hurt anyone, just trying to give me and my buddies a fighting chance out here in the volatile world of off-shore betting. Peace. <<<<
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
I made this post across the street and will copy it here:
>>>>>Upon further review I would have to lean towards Mr Chad, really easy guy to talk to and I liked him almost immediately. More importantly was the folks we have all come to love and cherish (
To my defense let me say yesterday I had my ass on my shoulders over Wagers Paradise officially stiffing their players. Another book on the RX that advertised only there (that I know of) biting the bullet and taking down posters. Yesterday I was angry to begin with and some of my posts reflected that. However quite frankly I would probably want to talk to Buckeye sports or any other book in the same situation again, when you have a place like the RX not wanting to ask any questions someone has to. Think of it from a players perspective:
- Wagers Paradise (WP) officially shuts down and stiffs the players over there.
- WP has posted to the fact they were affiliated with Buckeye Sports.
- WP leased office space from Buckeye Sports.
- Buckeye Sports was answering phones and taking wagers for WP.
- And lastly though this was contested, a player claims he was told the places were the same by a clerk who answered the phone at Buckeye sports!!
So with this information I think a little doubt on some people's mind was not completely out of line. If anyone didn't read the book I posted over at RX I think the guy had a plausible explanation for all of it. Hard for him to come in and set the record straight that WP was not affiliated with his book if he never saw the post to begin with. He admitted WP leased space and they answered the phones but that was the extent of their involvement and I believe it. A few other things I wondered about got answered in a round about way as well.
From my end it was all good. Though I may wait a little longer next time I will not say I won't force the issue again. As players with our nuts hanging out to dry it is our duty to check up on things, it is our money at risk, not the watchdog sites. I do apologize for any disruption I may have casued his fine book but even he understood perfectly a few questions and answers were not out of line in this situation. Hell I like the guy, if I see value in his lines I may end up posting up with the guy even after this. LOL. I promise I will NEVER intentionally hurt anyone, just trying to give me and my buddies a fighting chance out here in the volatile world of off-shore betting. Peace. <<<<
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
Angelle - you too babe, PM is going nowhere. The only way I leave is to be banned. Much work to be done.
As always you know I respect your opinion and will give it some thought.
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
As always you know I respect your opinion and will give it some thought.
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TOP - The OffShore Players club
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>as Peep informed me he would be more comfortable without me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh, let's stick to a few facts O.K.?
I e-mailed you asking you to please re-consider your decision to resign from the ad board. I went on to say that I thought you were one of my strongest supporters there.
I said some of your posts made me "uncomfortable". Phuck man, grow a set. Getting up in the morning sometimes makes me uncomforable....
What the hell ever happened to personal responsibility?
Uh, let's stick to a few facts O.K.?
I e-mailed you asking you to please re-consider your decision to resign from the ad board. I went on to say that I thought you were one of my strongest supporters there.
I said some of your posts made me "uncomfortable". Phuck man, grow a set. Getting up in the morning sometimes makes me uncomforable....
What the hell ever happened to personal responsibility?
I'm a bit confused, and suprised as to why anyone is upset, or angered by Pat's original posts regarding Buckeye. Clearly, Buckeye doesn't care at all about their own reputation. If they cared the least bit about their reputation, they never would have leased some of their space to a fly by night company like WP. And once WP started to fall apart, they should never have offered to take their calls, and take wagers for them over the phone. Anyone with any ounce of intelligence knows that when you know of a book thats about rob all of its cutomers, you do your best to DISTANCE yourself from them, you don't jump in and offer a helping hand. Buckeye, for whatever thier intentions were, made one bad judgement call after another. And they have only themselves to blame for ruining their reputation. And no one owes them an apology. If anything, they should be more apologetic about thier role, and providing more assistance to those players who got stiffed.
marc
You are assuming that Buckeye knew that WP was unethical. Any basis for your assumption?
By their own admission, Buckeye erred in assisting WP. If their reputation has been tarnished, and I don't think that it has been, they do not appear to be blaming anyone at all.
Your statement that they do not care about their reputation is equally absurd. They came on here, provided an explanation, and did everything else that a prudent business would do in this situation.
You are assuming that Buckeye knew that WP was unethical. Any basis for your assumption?
By their own admission, Buckeye erred in assisting WP. If their reputation has been tarnished, and I don't think that it has been, they do not appear to be blaming anyone at all.
Your statement that they do not care about their reputation is equally absurd. They came on here, provided an explanation, and did everything else that a prudent business would do in this situation.
Marc, Brilliant, Brilliant post. Although I took down my volatile title, to spare Buckeye some future Search engine embarrassment, they are certainly not the innocent aggrieved party here. If they were the "stand up guys" and good book that some are portraying them to be, they'd take some responsibility for their erroneous actions, and try to make things right in some way for the players they had some part, however small or large it may be, in WP stiffing. Instead, they just try and distance themselves from the situation after the fact. Pretty disgusting, IMHO, and an everlasting Black Mark on their Book.
Hamneggs,
At the point where Buckeye is naswering WP"s phone, Buckeye should have known something was wrong. And certainly when they were taking wagers, but knew that no payouts were being proceeesed, they were well aware of what was going on.
And clearly Buckeyes satff was given access to all of WP's client information, which should be of concern. Becuase it probably means that WP'S info was on Buckeyes server. Had WP, so desired, they probably could have gained access to Buckeye's client info. Bottom line, no self respecting company, gives another company, and certainly not a competitor access to its secure servers. No self respecting company, entangles themselves in this fashion with a compnay they no nothing about. And when you consider the fact, that so many books have gone bust, or just outright stole players money, it is totally incomprehensible that they got so intimately involved with wp.
And yes I do believe their reputation has been tarnished. A lot of people may let this slide, but if they make one more screw up like this, people will remember this and won't be as forgiving
At the point where Buckeye is naswering WP"s phone, Buckeye should have known something was wrong. And certainly when they were taking wagers, but knew that no payouts were being proceeesed, they were well aware of what was going on.
And clearly Buckeyes satff was given access to all of WP's client information, which should be of concern. Becuase it probably means that WP'S info was on Buckeyes server. Had WP, so desired, they probably could have gained access to Buckeye's client info. Bottom line, no self respecting company, gives another company, and certainly not a competitor access to its secure servers. No self respecting company, entangles themselves in this fashion with a compnay they no nothing about. And when you consider the fact, that so many books have gone bust, or just outright stole players money, it is totally incomprehensible that they got so intimately involved with wp.
And yes I do believe their reputation has been tarnished. A lot of people may let this slide, but if they make one more screw up like this, people will remember this and won't be as forgiving
Good post marc, and raising interesting questions where responsibility starts and stops.
"Success has many parents, failure is an orphan".
I think the guy (Shawn?) from Wager's Paradise was a good talker. Conned quite a few along the way. Of course there is at least a possibility he had the rug pulled out from under him too.
"Success has many parents, failure is an orphan".
I think the guy (Shawn?) from Wager's Paradise was a good talker. Conned quite a few along the way. Of course there is at least a possibility he had the rug pulled out from under him too.
i'd like some information has to how buckeye had access to our wagersparadise account info...and then all of a sudden saturday morning they did not...did someone come and physically take the server away? some things i know for sure, jan/jen could tell me my wagersparadise account balance (she works for buckeye) and would take bets if i wanted, and i spoke to her FOR CASHOUT information about a month ago in reguards to my wagersparadise account, i had thought i had wagered enough to cashout with the bonus, i was transferred to her and she told me exactly how much more wagering i had to do...of course soon after reaching those req's they ran out of money.
so buckeye did a little more than just answer phones and take messages for wagersparadise, since i believe they used the same accounting/cashout person even before they ran into financial difficulties.
so buckeye did a little more than just answer phones and take messages for wagersparadise, since i believe they used the same accounting/cashout person even before they ran into financial difficulties.
