Better player Michael Jordan or LeBron James

[PatsFan1283]

I'm a little confused about the "can't shoot at an elite level" part. Who are you referring to there? MJ had better touch in the midrange than LeBron has/had , but obviously he was pretty bad behind the three-point line. I tend to give players of that era more a of a break though when it comes to three-point shooting efficiency though

LeBron obviously isn't close to an elite shooter. He's gotten better but he's still average. That could be viewed as an argument in his favor though because he is dominating the time period where outside shooting matters the most.

If he got to play in a time period where his biggest weakness didn't matter as much and 1 of his biggest strengths (his physicality) was able to be used more effectively (with rules that allowed D to be more physical) he would be even better in that time period.


As far as MJ or other guys not hitting 3's from that era. It's just why comparing eras is largely pointless. Most of those guys didn't even have a 3pt line in High School and their 1980's fish college coaches told them the 3pt shot was "a sucker bet", it was just a weapon that was before its time back then. I'm sure someone like Reggie Miller looks back and thinks "damn, I was 20 years too early"

 

[phdinsports]

They lost game 1 with him on Magic and Magic went 19/11 on excellent efficiency in a low scoring game, game 2 he gets in foul trouble very early and Pippen takes over the assignment, completely shuts Magic down en route to the Bulls winning the series and then they won the next 3 games.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/06/sports/basketball-pippen-performs-magic-on-defense.html

A nice luxury to have arguably the best perimeter defender to toss onto Magic Johnson when Jordan gets into foul trouble and you are facing an 0-2 hole.

If the Bulls were an elite defensive team without Jordan, imagine how could they would be with him? Wait, I thought he had average teammates?

Jordan had more fouls in game 1 than game 2. He held Magic to just 5 field goal attempts in game one! They were generous at the charity stripe. They rotated Pippen in to guard Magic because of fatigue. Jordan had to guard the greatest point guard ever, while carrying his team offensively every night, scoring 30 plus points a game. No one else had such a demanding assignment. So if 19/11 is so terrible how is 18.6/12.4 "completely shutting Magic down" which is what Magic averaged for the series!?!?

 

[phdinsports]

The Bulls basically won 55 games the year after MJ retired because they were still an exceptional defensive team without him. They were just a lot worse offensively obviously.

In the ‘91 finals Magic was killing MJ so bad that pippen had to guard him and it changed the trajectory of the series. But for the most part Jordan didn’t really have to guard too many elite guys in his time. Most of the best swingmen of the modern era came after he was done playing. Was the first of his breed really.

They also added the best European player outside of the NBA and the best 3 point shooter in history!

 

[PatsFan1283]

Jordan had more fouls in game 1 than game 2. He held Magic to just 5 field goal attempts in game one! They were generous at the charity stripe. They rotated Pippen in to guard Magic because of fatigue. Jordan had to guard the greatest point guard ever, while carrying his team offensively every night, scoring 30 plus points a game. No one else had such a demanding assignment. So if 19/11 is so terrible how is 18.6/12.4 "completely shutting Magic down" which is what Magic averaged for the series!?!?

He got into foul trouble in game 2 early on and Pippen shut Magic down in game 2 after that.

Magic had 19-11 while taking 5 shots in game 1. I’d call that pretty damn efficient.

Not sure what you are trying to argue here? That MJ was great on D? Who said he wasn’t? That’s some great margin for error though. Let’s just say Nike isn’t putting out a documentary on Pippen’s D on Magic in game 2 with the young Bulls facing an 0-2 hole anytime soon.

 

[PatsFan1283]

They also added the best European player outside of the NBA and the best 3 point shooter in history!

Wow, that’s some good shit man. You could be a PR rep for Nike if you play your cards right.

That sounds way better than saying they added Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr. Wayyyy better.

 

[Avocado33]

Wow, that’s some good shit man. You could be a PR rep for Nike if you play your cards right.

That sounds way better than saying they added Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr. Wayyyy better.

Did that guy just say Steve Kerr is the best 3 point shooter in history?

 

[phdinsports]

Did that guy just say Steve Kerr is the best 3 point shooter in history?

uh duh yeah smartass!

 

[phdinsports]

He got into foul trouble in game 2 early on and Pippen shut Magic down in game 2 after that.

Magic had 19-11 while taking 5 shots in game 1. I’d call that pretty damn efficient.

Not sure what you are trying to argue here? That MJ was great on D? Who said he wasn’t? That’s some great margin for error though. Let’s just say Nike isn’t putting out a documentary on Pippen’s D on Magic in game 2 with the young Bulls facing an 0-2 hole anytime soon.

More like pretty generous on the charity stripe! Your argument has no merit. You said Magic killing Jordan at 19 and 11, yet Magic went on to average 18.6 and 12.4 for the series with the "great" Pippen "completely shutting Magic down" Again how is 18.6 and 12.4, which I might add is slightly better than 19 and 11 completely shutting Magic down, yet 19 and 11 equals Magic killing Jordan?

 

[PatsFan1283]

More like pretty generous on the charity stripe! Your argument has no merit. You said Magic killing Jordan at 19 and 11, yet Magic went on to average 18.6 and 12.4 for the series with the "great" Pippen "completely shutting Magic down" Again how is 18.6 and 12.4, which I might add is slightly better than 19 and 11 completely shutting Magic down, yet 19 and 11 equals Magic killing Jordan?

I didn't say the entire series, game 2 when they were down 0-1 and Jordan was in foul trouble (I think most people would say this is a rather precarious position for a young team in the NBA finals playing a team that has won 5 championships) that Pippen shut Magic down after Magic had a very effective game 1 against Jordan (if you think 19-11 on pristine efficiency isn't a good game 1 then we'll just disagree, if you think the officiating was bad then I don't really feel like getting into something that subjective).....Also, if you know anything about this series then you know that as the series went on both Worthy/Scott got hurt and it was pretty much a wrap after that. But nobody knows that is going to happen in the 1st half of game 2.

All of this is in that NYT link in the post. You need a box score too? Game footage? What do you need me to do for you boss?

Lastly (here is the good news) don't even worry about that all that man, your "The 93-94 Bulls added the best overseas player and the best shooter of all time" when in reality they added Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr, neither of whom played over 25mpg for them and neither scored in double digits (Kerr took a whopping 1.5 3's per game in 1993-1994) was probably the most ESPNtastic Nike Jordan comment that I've seen. Stephen A. Smith himself could not have come up with that if he spent all day thinking about it. That's even better than calling 1980's NBA defense good. That's good shit man. Don't think it can be trademarked but I'd probably contact an IP lawyer anyway.

 

[phdinsports]

I didn't say the entire series, game 2 when they were down 0-1 and Jordan was in foul trouble (I think most people would say this is a rather precarious position for a young team in the NBA finals playing a team that has won 5 championships) that Pippen shut Magic down after Magic had a very effective game 1 against Jordan (if you think 19-11 on pristine efficiency isn't a good game 1 then we'll just disagree, if you think the officiating was bad then I don't really feel like getting into something that subjective).....Also, if you know anything about this series then you know that as the series went on both Worthy/Scott got hurt and it was pretty much a wrap after that. But nobody knows that is going to happen in the 1st half of game 2.

All of this is in that NYT link in the post. You need a box score too? Game footage? What do you need me to do for you boss?

Lastly (here is the good news) don't even worry about that all that man, your "The 93-94 Bulls added the best overseas player and the best shooter of all time" when in reality they added Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr, neither of whom played over 25mpg for them and neither scored in double digits (Kerr took a whopping 1.5 3's per game in 1993-1994) was probably the most ESPNtastic Nike Jordan comment that I've seen. Stephen A. Smith himself could not have come up with that if he spent all day thinking about it. That's even better than calling 1980's NBA defense good. That's good shit man. Don't think it can be trademarked but I'd probably contact an IP lawyer anyway.

Um last time I checked 10.9 points per game does equal double digits, which is even more impressive considering he played less than 25 minutes, (hey pat yourself on the back you did get something right) but then again 19 and 11 is killing it (Jordan forced as many turnovers as field goal attempts!) but 18.6 and 12.4 is shutting it down! FYI Kukoc was their clear number three scorer on the greatest team ever. So let me get this straight, Pippen guarding Magic for three quarters changed the whole series, not the fact that they set an NBA Team finals record by shooting over 61% from the field for the entire game!! My grandma could have been guarding Magic that day, and the Bulls shooting at over 61% with a plus 16 in rebounds to boot would have still won the game!

 

[PatsFan1283]

Um last time I checked 10.9 points per game does equal double digits, which is even more impressive considering he played less than 25 minutes, (hey pat yourself on the back you did get something right) but then again 19 and 11 is killing it (Jordan forced as many turnovers as field goal attempts!) but 18.6 and 12.4 is shutting it down! FYI Kukoc was their clear number three scorer on the greatest team ever. So let me get this straight, Pippen guarding Magic for three quarters changed the whole series, not the fact that they set an NBA Team finals record by shooting over 61% from the field for the entire game!! My grandma could have been guarding Magic that day, and the Bulls shooting at over 61% with a plus 16 in rebounds to boot would have still won the game!

Your grandmother could hold Magic Johnson to 14 points on horrible efficiency in the NBA finals while on the road in a 0-1 hole? Well, there ya have it. The mental gymnastics needed to defend Nike Jordan is just crazy. Someone else shut Magic down in a pivotal game, that doesn't take anything away from MJ (it does NJ though, he has to do everything as he is a superhero), he just had teammates that made his job much easier than people like you want the story to be told. Deal with it.

Your right, Kukoc went 10.9 points a game in '93-94. That really makes your statement that the Bulls added "The best overseas player and the best shooter in the history of the game" not hyperbole at all. The '93-94 Bulls that won 55 games was absolutely loaded thanks to the Kukoc/Kerr additions compared to the average team that Nike Jordan carried to the '93 title.

Atleast buy Nike stock or ask MJ for a kickback. Building a human being up to be a superhero seems intellectually exhausting.

 

[Avocado33]

uh duh yeah smartass!

Saying Steve Kerr is the three best shooter of all time is like saying Kevin Love was the best player on the Cavs the past four seasons.

He’s literally coaching multiple players better than him all time. And that’s just on the team he’s currently coaching.

One of the worst take I’ve seen in a while.

 

[phdinsports]

Your grandmother could hold Magic Johnson to 14 points on horrible efficiency in the NBA finals while on the road in a 0-1 hole? Well, there ya have it. The mental gymnastics needed to defend Nike Jordan is just crazy. Someone else shut Magic down in a pivotal game, that doesn't take anything away from MJ (it does NJ though, he has to do everything as he is a superhero), he just had teammates that made his job much easier than people like you want the story to be told. Deal with it.

Your right, Kukoc went 10.9 points a game in '93-94. That really makes your statement that the Bulls added "The best overseas player and the best shooter in the history of the game" not hyperbole at all. The '93-94 Bulls that won 55 games was absolutely loaded thanks to the Kukoc/Kerr additions compared to the average team that Nike Jordan carried to the '93 title.

Atleast buy Nike stock or ask MJ for a kickback. Building a human being up to be a superhero seems intellectually exhausting.

Never said my grandma could hold Magic to 14 points. LOL it's a figure of speech. I'll spell it out to you. NEARLY ANY NBA player could have been guarding Magic that day, and the Bulls by shooting over 61% from the floor and nearly having twice as many rebounds 36-20 would have won the game REGARDLESS of who was guarding Magic!! Got it. It's not that difficult to understand!

 

[phdinsports]

Saying Steve Kerr is the three best shooter of all time is like saying Kevin Love was the best player on the Cavs the past four seasons.

He’s literally coaching multiple players better than him all time. And that’s just on the team he’s currently coaching.

One of the worst take I’ve seen in a while.

Best career leader in 3 point field goal percentage. I was typing quickly before. I'll correct myself. They added the best career leader in 3 point field goal percentage.