Arizona Cardinals show Kyler Murray the money!!

[chrishansen]

Okay maybe note eye popping he's been good when he's healthy. Good deal? Guess we'll see, gotta stay healthy ,I doubt he does though. Had my team made him the second highest QB in the league I wouldn't be too happy.

Interesting stat..Winston? nuts.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550219064680800261

I think he stays healthy this year. Banged up tiny bit first 3 years. Soft tissue will be only concern imo. He got his bag so doesn’t have to do anything crazy now. He doesn’t take big hits either.

First 3 season passing yards is impressive! You can spin a pile of shit into roses with just the right wording.

Let’s cover the full list of first 3 seasons passing yards leaders to ever strap it on in NFL

4th is Murray followed by...
Murray 11,480
Marino 11,431
Andy Dalton 11,361
Cam Newton 11,299
Ryan Tannehill 11,291
Blake Bortles 11,241
David Carr 11,194
Baker Mayfield 11,151

If Mayfield had started every game his rookie year we may be reading a headline Baker passes for 12,000 yards for 2nd all time first 3 seasons. The AP rookie of the year, former 1st rd pick, Heisman trophy winner, drafted by the worst NFL organization in 40 years and not Even close, and had them 5 points away from being in conference title game.

Baker had more TDs, more interceptions also. More wins, more game winning drives, more 4th qtr comebacks, less sacks, lower sack %, less sack yards lost. Amongst several things.

However, Baker had a better O line from year 3 and 4 also. And incredible run game those years. He was not in a pass happy Offense year 3. Murray is in the same offensive friendly for 3 years. Oddly enough Baker was far more productive his first 2 years before the new coach and offense scheme.

I’m just playing devils advocate over here on the Murray situation. But what if Baker got Murray $ tomorrow? Imagine the outrage there.

 

[TSshmoney]

Ahahaha well when you put it that way

 

[chrishansen]

Ahahaha well when you put it that way

So does the panthers sign extension for little less than Murray money? Lol

I mean same college, same years, same accomplishment one just threw for 2600 3700 3900 and 4700 yards in college (Baker) while Murray went 700 300 4300 yards as a starter for just one year. Murray had the opportunity to beat out Baker at Oklahoma. A college coach will play who he thinks best. Now Murray was a year younger and less experienced. Not saying Baker or Murray are better. But college coaches pull triggers quick. See T Lawrence and Clemson with Senior Kelly Bryant who sat in Watson wings for 2 years before his big junior year. Only to get yanked game 1 vs Texas AM.

Murray transferred out of A&M because he couldn’t separate from freshman Kyle Allen. Same guy panthers drafted and sent to Washington after going 5-7 or 5-6 as a starter on that dumpster fire team. Not bad why not see what he is? But new coaches and GM’s want THEIR mark. So they go sign Teddy 2 gloves for big $. Next year trade for Beavis Darnold. Now onto Baker.

If they draft Allen rd 1 they would probably have him playing now this year in a make it break it deal. But rd 4 or 5 they automatically find him not the answer at QB. Handed starting job his 2nd year and goes 3400 and 17 in 11 or 12 games isn’t that bad. Murray in way better situation was 3600 and 24 year 2 in 16 games. Same would be done with Murray if drafted rd 4 or 5. But anytime they go RD1 GM’s are committed in trying to be right because job is on the line. Allen goes to Washington breaks leg and becomes a cast off not the answer. But was opportunity really given to him there before pulling the trigger with Their guy at QB. NFL is a funny business.

Fun fact some don’t know. But Kliff had a QB carousel back in 2015 I believe. Webb and Baker alternating snaps etc as Freshmen. Both literally same amount Pass attempt s and yards. Baker left for Oklahoma and Mahomes Competed as a freshman with sophomore Webb. Webb was starter but Mahomes got some PT 1/3 of game action over year. Webb who eventually transferred to Cal the following year open the door for Mahomes. Now Kliff coaches Murray in Arizona.

Opportunity and decent talent on a team makes a big difference in how we judge who is good especially at QBS in NFL. Where and who drafts ya makes a big difference also. Baker Webb Mahomes all played for same coach and offense in b2b years and neither could really separate from the other. So clearly there must be some equal talent. Webb was drafted rD 4-5 I believe which automatically makes it near impossible for a 3 year window to see what ya got.

Would baker be Mahomes Under Reid and Alex Smith for a year? With Ty Hill and Kelce? Would Murray be soo much better than Baker if In Cleveland? No way to ever know. But fun to ponder.

 

[TSshmoney]

Yeah but no, sanchez and darnold were on some pretty sh

So does the panthers sign extension for little less than Murray money? Lol

I mean same college, same years, same accomplishment one just threw for 2600 3700 3900 and 4700 yards in college (Baker) while Murray went 700 300 4300 yards as a starter for just one year. Murray had the opportunity to beat out Baker at Oklahoma. A college coach will play who he thinks best. Now Murray was a year younger and less experienced. Not saying Baker or Murray are better. But college coaches pull triggers quick. See T Lawrence and Clemson with Senior Kelly Bryant who sat in Watson wings for 2 years before his big junior year. Only to get yanked game 1 vs Texas AM.

Murray transferred out of A&M because he couldn’t separate from freshman Kyle Allen. Same guy panthers drafted and sent to Washington after going 5-7 or 5-6 as a starter on that dumpster fire team. Not bad why not see what he is? But new coaches and GM’s want THEIR mark. So they go sign Teddy 2 gloves for big $. Next year trade for Beavis Darnold. Now onto Baker.

If they draft Allen rd 1 they would probably have him playing now this year in a make it break it deal. But rd 4 or 5 they automatically find him not the answer at QB. Handed starting job his 2nd year and goes 3400 and 17 in 11 or 12 games isn’t that bad. Murray in way better situation was 3600 and 24 year 2 in 16 games. Same would be done with Murray if drafted rd 4 or 5. But anytime they go RD1 GM’s are committed in trying to be right because job is on the line. Allen goes to Washington breaks leg and becomes a cast off not the answer. But was opportunity really given to him there before pulling the trigger with Their guy at QB. NFL is a funny business.

Fun fact some don’t know. But Kliff had a QB carousel back in 2015 I believe. Webb and Baker alternating snaps etc as Freshmen. Both literally same amount Pass attempt s and yards. Baker left for Oklahoma and Mahomes Competed as a freshman with sophomore Webb. Webb was starter but Mahomes got some PT 1/3 of game action over year. Webb who eventually transferred to Cal the following year open the door for Mahomes. Now Kliff coaches Murray in Arizona.

Opportunity and decent talent on a team makes a big difference in how we judge who is good especially at QBS in NFL. Where and who drafts ya makes a big difference also. Baker Webb Mahomes all played for same coach and offense in b2b years and neither could really separate from the other. So clearly there must be some equal talent. Webb was drafted rD 4-5 I believe which automatically makes it near impossible for a 3 year window to see what ya got.

Would baker be Mahomes Under Reid and Alex Smith for a year? With Ty Hill and Kelce? Would Murray be soo much better than Baker if In Cleveland? No way to ever know. But fun to ponder.

Mehhhhhh ive seen enough from baker, im taking kyler every day and twice on sunday.... mayfield is a future clipboard holder at best

 

[chrishansen]

Yeah but no, sanchez and darnold were on some pretty sh

Mehhhhhh ive seen enough from baker, im taking kyler every day and twice on sunday.... mayfield is a future clipboard holder at best

I’m not a Baker fan. But I do have a good friend who loves the guy! Curious as to why you think a back up? What have you seen enough of? Last year is hard to gauge, guy tried to tuff it out with broken ribs and torn shoulder. I give him credit for playing that injured but he wasn’t effective before hitting the pine and shutting it down.

Is it his awareness? Accuracy? Deep ball? I’m not here to say you are wrong if a back up is what you see him as. I do however like hearing the support of why people feel certain ways about players. Is this stuff you noticed in college or NFL? Or is it like most, nothing personal, but following the media and just looking at the big picture?

Watching baker do you see he struggles vs man? Vs quarters? Vs single high? Vs cover 2? Is the play calling suited to his skills? Does he not progress reads? Is it a high release? What reasons would you not draft him in next years draft or as a FA on a QB needed team?

I despise the panthers. Not a fan of Baker. But I do believe the panthers is a good fit for him. And they may have playoff potential with 10 wins. Will be watching if a connection to T Marsh gets some traction if the panthers work him in the slot some. Baker is a bit of a gun slinger which is good but bad. Teams need created opportunities that have below average all around weapons. Baker gives you this. He also needs volume. The change in offense in Cleveland was too conservative for his skill imo. He was far more productive with less talent his first two years. If the panthers lean conservative I see the same outcome.

 

[TSshmoney]

I will breakit down for you into details tomorrow brother im working atm but his accuracy touch and ball placement arent there. Other players dont like him, nor does he command respect... hes not a leader, terrible awareness in the pocket, dude has a cannon and he consistently underthrows receivers. He doesnt read coverages well at all and often gets fooled by disguised packages, hes slow, he blew close out 4th quarter drives over and over, his QBR in the 4th quarter of single score games is abysmal and granted he was playing hurt at times but thats everybody in this league at one point or another it comes with the job description

 

[Michelangelo]

Thanks for your perspectives, chrishanson. You should be someone's GM. Great stuff.

 

[Avocado33]

The Cardinals had to pay him. Not like this is as bad as the Deshaun Watson deal

Hope he stays healthy. He’s got great touch on the ball and has learned how to keep plays alive

 

[michael777]

The kid has no talent , The Lions beat him last year He has ZERO chance to improve , he is CFL materiel . he is injury prone and very stupid , can't learn plays ,can't see over the defensive line. Will be one of the biggest busts in NFL history

 

[chrishansen]

The Cardinals had to pay him. Not like this is as bad as the Deshaun Watson deal

Hope he stays healthy. He’s got great touch on the ball and has learned how to keep plays alive

Had to pay him? No, not really. He inked a contract. Play or sit. Too many organizations have no Balls! Scared of backlash, possible mistake, fomo way too much, can’t handle media opinions and give players too much control.

It’s 2022 so if they didn’t extend him the cancel culture of the world would be after the cards head. Headlines, Racist Anti Dwarfism Colonists and oppressors supports inequality.

I’d quickly remind Murray he is 22-23-1 as a starter! We want to measure a teams success off the QB then I’ll play that game. I’d point out we took a chance on a 5’8 QB with the 1st overall pick and signed him to a lucrative deal. Brought in a coach to run a system off his skill set, an offense catered to him, traded for a top 3 wr for him, invested in the draft and FA with many other WR’s, traded a 1st rd pick for his former college buddy for yet another WR. Went after Ertz for a TE.

I’d remind him if he wants to pout like a little brat then that fragile ego of his may get smashed in even more if you don’t allow us to get a little better on the offense line to keep you from getting your brains and ego smashed in. Because apparently it’s fragile already. Play out your contact, you will get paid next year even more money when contract is up. If you are as good as you believe you are then nothing to worry about.

As the owner I’m telling my GM to tell his coaches to tell his players I make a boat load of money wether my team sucks or wins titles. So either play, coach or GM and make money or don’t and make no money. Because there is always someone else who I can find for cheaper and may just even do a better job. And they can be found real quick.

Fans don’t want Murray to sit out. They want Murray to play. They scream sign him. Yet the second players get signed to big money they scream that’s ridiculous to play a sport. Nobody should make that much.

The owners don’t need the players. The players need the owners.

 

[Avocado33]

Had to pay him? No, not really. He inked a contract. Play or sit. Too many organizations have no Balls! Scared of backlash, possible mistake, fomo way too much, can’t handle media opinions and give players too much control.

It’s 2022 so if they didn’t extend him the cancel culture of the world would be after the cards head. Headlines, Racist Anti Dwarfism Colonists and oppressors supports inequality.

I’d quickly remind Murray he is 22-23-1 as a starter! We want to measure a teams success off the QB then I’ll play that game. I’d point out we took a chance on a 5’8 QB with the 1st overall pick and signed him to a lucrative deal. Brought in a coach to run a system off his skill set, an offense catered to him, traded for a top 3 wr for him, invested in the draft and FA with many other WR’s, traded a 1st rd pick for his former college buddy for yet another WR. Went after Ertz for a TE.

I’d remind him if he wants to pout like a little brat then that fragile ego of his may get smashed in even more if you don’t allow us to get a little better on the offense line to keep you from getting your brains and ego smashed in. Because apparently it’s fragile already. Play out your contact, you will get paid next year even more money when contract is up. If you are as good as you believe you are then nothing to worry about.

As the owner I’m telling my GM to tell his coaches to tell his players I make a boat load of money wether my team sucks or wins titles. So either play, coach or GM and make money or don’t and make no money. Because there is always someone else who I can find for cheaper and may just even do a better job. And they can be found real quick.

Fans don’t want Murray to sit out. They want Murray to play. They scream sign him. Yet the second players get signed to big money they scream that’s ridiculous to play a sport. Nobody should make that much.

The owners don’t need the players. The players need the owners.

The situation had 0% to do with race, politics, etc lol
Come on now

The price is going to be the going rate for QB’s in the near future. They have a talented roster, and Murray has improved considerably year over year. People just have bias. Josh Allen looked awful in his first playoff game

Id rather lock up a talented guy like this long term than invest in another project, especially when you have some good surrounding talent

Price tag may seem steep, but it’ll be the norm in no time

 

[chrishansen]

Thanks for your perspectives, chrishanson. You should be someone's GM. Great stuff.

Just my opinions. We all have them. Doesn’t mean I’m right.

I’d never last as a GM. I pay far more attention to CFB than NFL. I enjoy player evaluation. I never have more than 75 draftable players in any draft. I’d never pay for the talent of some of these players what they pay. I prioritize winning and team chemistry. Either we all eat or nobody eats. I eat, you eat we all eat! Basically, we all work together to win that’s it! We win we all win as the wealth is distributed. I want high character players, team oriented players, simplicity in structure for players and coaches. The minute I pay boat loads of money to a player I own him. I’d prefer pay less and give more freedom and opportunity to players. Loyalty is important, but I’d understand and wish any player well if he got his chance to take a bag and run off. Can’t blame them.

Old school build a foundation through the draft. Priorities are O and D line. SB winners always have this! They don’t win off Diva Wr’s and CB’s. Give me 11 guys on each side of the ball that work together making each individual better as a whole. It’s more blue collar guys I want. Punch in punch out go live life. No micromanaging shit 18 of 24 hours a day. You want as much money as possible go somewhere else. You want a little less money and enjoy seeing your other teammates eat and winning along with a more relaxed atmosphere then here is your spot.

I’d never sign a player on contract who holds out. I would extend a contract to a player though that’s deserving. Doesn’t mean I’d over pay. It’s a simple game. Look at Army Navy, far less talent but cohesive players and the same basic system for years. They continue to win and still cause a pain in the ass to the big boys.

 

[TSshmoney]

The situation had 0% to do with race, politics, etc lol
Come on now

The price is going to be the going rate for QB’s in the near future. They have a talented roster, and Murray has improved considerably year over year. People just have bias. Josh Allen looked awful in his first playoff game

Id rather lock up a talented guy like this long term than invest in another project, especially when you have some good surrounding talent

Price tag may seem steep, but it’ll be the norm in no time

I agree to an extent. I think he is an above avg QB but do not think murray deserves the 2nd highest salary at his position.... and with his limited size durability and longevity come into question as well

160million guaranteed?

Watson is def a perverted fiend, but the guy is an absolute baller...

 

[chrishansen]

I agree to an extent. I think he is an above avg QB but do not think murray deserves the 2nd highest salary at his position.... and with his limited size durability and longevity come into question as well

160million guaranteed?

Watson is def a perverted fiend, but the guy is an absolute baller...

A good QB. I do personally think he is too small working a full passing tree and certain areas of field. . But longevity I think can be fine. Rules really help QB now and days. Short and compact can help also. See warrick Dunn and Sproles. More flexibility and easier on ligaments joints etc low center gravity body types. Not going to be easy blasting him into the ground from a blind side like a much bigger Herbert let’s say. As long as he doesn’t go full retard scrambling then he should be durable enough over years. Easier for him to avoid big hits however if he catches one it’s going to be bad.

But like you said, I just can’t justify the money. And the argument that the going rate goes up and in 3 years it will look like a good deal. Well he already threatened to not play with two years left. He will just rinse repeat in two years. They all do. What’s Rodgers on his 3rd contract in 7 years?

Just can’t grasp Murray worth that $ but Baker sucks. Literally the guys have identical stats first 3 years. Like literally identical. And for such a stat based driven era it’s just weird to me.

I wouldn’t have extended him off 3 years because of him demanding it. Other guys getting paid sure, been in league longer and easily enough also better and accomplished more already. Just wasn’t the right time for him imo. Should have been handled after this year.

 

[Michelangelo]

Your GM philosophy sounds a lot like a guy we're very familiar with around here, Billy B.

 

[chrishansen]

Your GM philosophy sounds a lot like a guy we're very familiar with around here, Billy B.

Evil Lil Bill? Ehhh they draft weird imo. They hit a few but sure do hit some big misses. Not sure what he see’s in some players. Squanders some good draft capital imo. He got something figured out though. As far as drafting the ravens have done well for years. They never get too cute. Stick to quality productive bigger school players.

Bill runs a good camp. Basically has like 3 rules and do what ya want. Believe it was Vince wilfork who showed up in a walk through in pajamas. Bill didn’t give two shits. Definitely loyal to some guys (Bolden Slater) come to mind as head scratching. Works the scrap yard off other teams draft pick cuts like no other.

 

[Avocado33]

I agree to an extent. I think he is an above avg QB but do not think murray deserves the 2nd highest salary at his position.... and with his limited size durability and longevity come into question as well

160million guaranteed?

Watson is def a perverted fiend, but the guy is an absolute baller...

A lot of that is timing as far as highest salary. Salaries in general are gonna jump up and he’s going to fall down that list

 

[TSshmoney]

A lot of that is timing as far as highest salary. Salaries in general are gonna jump up and he’s going to fall down that list

I understand that but still not justifiable imo

 

[chrishansen]

A lot of that is timing as far as highest salary. Salaries in general are gonna jump up and he’s going to fall down that list

Till he sees Herbert, Burrows, Tua finish year 3 and get more than him. Then a Cousins Winston Goff Jimmy G command a market next year. Because a team will need a QB. Mariotta Baker Jones could all have good years and get paid more than him. Then you got the Wilson Lawrence Lance Jones guys in two years pulling their 3rd year pay day.

Teams are going to overpay for the QBs! They have been doing it for years. The Goff Cousins Jimmy G Wentz Tanny Guys are due up and already have a market of 30-35 million. Jumping up to 45-50 million is not unrealistic. We can say no way they are better or worth more than x y or z. But a team is going to do it. We are already doing it with Murray now as the 2nd highest qb.

Now we drag the premium guys back into new contracts. It’s a never ending cycle. The idiot GM down in Jacksonville wrecked the WR market by paying Kirk! He literally became the highest paid WR in the league. It snow balled and the Adams Diggs Brown Deebo guys of the world were like hold the fuck up. Redo my contract. That GM literally changed the premium on drafting WR in round 1.

It only takes one fool to destroy the market. Somebody will do it next year with a QB nobody thinks is worth more than even Murray. Until the GMs get patience from owners and fans they will do and say all sorts of shit to justify a players salary. Because it’s a short window with GMs. They can buy a life line or an out by just clawing along with a little progress.

Look at the panthers. Teddy 2 gloves for huge $. Next year kick him out panic trade for Darnold. Bring back Cam. Draft Corral. Trade for Baker. All this in two years and they let Heinicke and Allen walk who could have done just as bad but if not better job for way way cheaper. Hell you would actually want them to do worse. The panthers already sucked. They were picking top 10. A Herbert Burrows Tua Jones Lawrence Wilson Lance option would have been at their front door the past 2 years.

But the coach and GM are in win now. Justify my job etc. So GM’s Coach wreck teams and destroy salary caps and ignite fires in players salary.

In two years Murray will probably ask for more. So why pay him now if he is binded to a contract two more years. Make him wait or be realistic and say we will extend you but eat shit if you think you are worth more than these guys with your 22-23-1 record! Worst case scenario is he sits and the team sucks. Now it’s stroud or petty in the wheelhouse to draft plus you can trade Murray for a boat load.

 

[5teamparlay]

He sucks !!