Anybody Watching Republican Debate?

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VWJOE,

Your verbosity hurts my eyes. Some of those fonts can be seen from the moon - what up with that???

Anyhoo...here's my verbose reply:

First, regarding your "Reagan formula electoral success strategy" - the GOP targeting today's Democrats and independents as a winning strategy. Not a chance. Back then your party wasn't the total socialist party it is now, there's a totally different dynamic at play. Since you love childish analogies, here's one: you wouldn't bet the Browns to beat the Chargers today based on a trend that happened 30 years ago, would you? Different dynamic. The "electoral math" theory you keep regurgitating is very narrow minded - the type of thinking you get from highly-paid out of touch political consultants.

The larger point I'm making is this: properly articulated, conservatism isn't ideological (unlike say, your beloved statism: Govt Uber Alles) because conservatism is simply the natural state of man. They called Reagan the "Great Communicator" because everything he said made sense regardless of how people identified themselves ideologically. Reagan had a degree in economics, so there's no question he understood the complex inner-workings of the economy, but Reagan also had a rare gift of taking incredibly complicated subjects and condensing them into simple sentences and sound bites people could relate to and understand - many that still resonate with Americans today:

"Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem"... just one example.

I see similarities in Trump. Right now, people aren't identifying Trump as a 'liberal' or 'conservative', just pro-American - what he's saying is making sense and resonating.

Most Americans aren't ideological, they just want ideas and policies that work. Conservatism works. Even you would vote for it, as long as Daily Kos, Jon Stewart, Mother Jones and ThinkProgress didn't tell you something or someone is too 'conservative'

"Electoral math" is for small thinkers who want to put every candidate (and every state) into an ideological, partisan box - red state vs blue state. He's too left, she's too right, nominate a moderate etc.

They're all wrong.

I prefer to think bigger:

ElectionMap1984.jpg


Don't worry, I'm not offended. The fact is, much smarter individuals at the RNC don't get it either - which is why they keep losing.
 

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So why can't this happen?

You know a woman is going to get our highest office soon. Why not Carly now? She would bury Hillary in a debate in a way that a man never could. She is very, bright, Presidential, and she showed last night that she is quick and can think on her feet so to speak. Hillary is so vulnerable. Carly would eat her alive.

And by the way, I think she'd make a great President. She knows how to run the show. That job she had at HP has given her leadership experience to rival any candidate, Repub or Dem.


Fiorina would be the worst possible choice of any of the 15 or so candidates still standing, if I had the choice of
either Mrs. Clinton or Fiorina I'd either stay home or hold my nose & support a democrat for the first time ever.

Your statement 'That job she had at HP has given her leadership experience to rival any candidate,
Repub or Dem.' demonstrates either naivete or ignorance.

1) H-P's stock, which had gone nowhere for her 5 years on the job and was down two-thirds from
its peak in 2000, but rose almost 7 percent after earlier soaring almost 11 percent on the news of her ouster.

2) Millionaire Fiorina Called the Outsourcing of American Jobs "Right Shoring." The San Francisco Chronicle reported,
Fiorina fired 30,000 employees in those 5 years. As for her knowing how to create jobs, that's largely true but only
if you are referring to job growth in China. And India. What she leaves out is that what she doesn't know is how
to build a company -- because under her watch, the value of HP stock plummeted 52%. Before she was fired.
The thing is, Carly Fiorina has a long track record of saying things that are cringeworthy. And getting fired.

It's worth noting, too, that after being fired by HP five years ago, no other company has hired her.
No one would hire her she couldn't get a job so she takes her 50 million dollar 'Golden Parachute & funds
her disastrous senate campaign losing to B Boxer in a landslide & by the way actually ridiculed B Boxers looks while at it.

Let us not forget, after all, that when she was an advisor to the McCain presidential campaign,
she embarrassed the candidate twice and was dropped like a rock.

So, Carly Fiorina's two big supposed credentials for being a U.S. Senator are that she was 1) a CEO and
2) an advisor to a presidential campaign. And she was fired from both.
 

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Fiorina would be the worst possible choice of any of the 15 or so candidates still standing, if I had the choice of
either Mrs. Clinton or Fiorina I'd either stay home or hold my nose & support a democrat for the first time ever.

Your statement 'That job she had at HP has given her leadership experience to rival any candidate,
Repub or Dem.' demonstrates either naivete or ignorance.

1) H-P's stock, which had gone nowhere for her 5 years on the job and was down two-thirds from
its peak in 2000, but rose almost 7 percent after earlier soaring almost 11 percent on the news of her ouster.

2) Millionaire Fiorina Called the Outsourcing of American Jobs "Right Shoring." The San Francisco Chronicle reported,
Fiorina fired 30,000 employees in those 5 years. As for her knowing how to create jobs, that's largely true but only
if you are referring to job growth in China. And India. What she leaves out is that what she doesn't know is how
to build a company -- because under her watch, the value of HP stock plummeted 52%. Before she was fired.
The thing is, Carly Fiorina has a long track record of saying things that are cringeworthy. And getting fired.

It's worth noting, too, that after being fired by HP five years ago, no other company has hired her.
No one would hire her she couldn't get a job so she takes her 50 million dollar 'Golden Parachute & funds
her disastrous senate campaign losing to B Boxer in a landslide & by the way actually ridiculed B Boxers looks while at it.

Let us not forget, after all, that when she was an advisor to the McCain presidential campaign,
she embarrassed the candidate twice and was dropped like a rock.

So, Carly Fiorina's two big supposed credentials for being a U.S. Senator are that she was 1) a CEO and
2) an advisor to a presidential campaign. And she was fired from both.

it is beyond incredible how the US manufacture sector was NEARLY raped yet again with the 'fast-track' Trans Pacific Partnership deal. These politicians ensuring the American public that it would CREATE jobs for Americans. A sales pitch, as Clinton successfully did in 2000 passing into law the historic bill granting permanent normal trade relations with China; then watching China destroy you guys all in the name on increased EPS for American multinationals. Your country NEARLY WAS STUPID ENOUGH to repeat with TPP!!!!!!!!!!!




Bush- yes for TPP (there's a surprise....:)...)
Rubio- the smooth talking snake, ala Clinton--.“The TPP is a promising trade agreement that I believe will provide immediate benefits once it’s finalized and can eventually serve as the basis for creating a hemisphere-wide free-trade zone... yes for TPP; 'hemisphere-wide free trade zone' ? wtf? free trade with third countries Mr Rubio? environmental and wage arbitrage with third countries does WHAT for manufacturing jobs in America, Mr Rubio?



and a sneak preview of TPP?


"In March 2012, President Obama inaugurated a free trade pact with South Korea and in many ways, it provides a template for what we may expect from a broader TPP.
Imports from South Korea are up 3.6 billion, U.S. exports are down marginally and the U.S. trade deficit with the Asian nation has swelled to 5 billion. That free trade deal alone has killed about 25,000 American jobs—mostly in high paying manufacturing activities—and added to downward pressures on wages and worsened income inequality."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-asian-trade-deal-sells-out-american-workers/
 

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And bush had a ton of experience and he bankrupted the country and damn near killed us all.......so it's a coin flip either way.

If Bush "bankrupted" the country, how then did Obama add so much more debt?

How is America's economy & government even functioning?

Oh, you're a clueless moron.

Never mind.
 

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VWJOE,

Your verbosity hurts my eyes. Some of those fonts can be seen from the moon - what up with that???

Anyhoo...here's my verbose reply:

First, regarding your "Reagan formula electoral success strategy" - the GOP targeting today's Democrats and independents as a winning strategy. Not a chance. Back then your party wasn't the total socialist party it is now, there's a totally different dynamic at play. Since you love childish analogies, here's one: you wouldn't bet the Browns to beat the Chargers today based on a trend that happened 30 years ago, would you? Different dynamic. The "electoral math" theory you keep regurgitating is very narrow minded - the type of thinking you get from highly-paid out of touch political consultants.

The larger point I'm making is this: properly articulated, conservatism isn't ideological (unlike say, your beloved statism: Govt Uber Alles) because conservatism is simply the natural state of man. They called Reagan the "Great Communicator" because everything he said made sense regardless of how people identified themselves ideologically. Reagan had a degree in economics, so there's no question he understood the complex inner-workings of the economy, but Reagan also had a rare gift of taking incredibly complicated subjects and condensing them into simple sentences and sound bites people could relate to and understand - many that still resonate with Americans today:

"Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem"... just one example.

I see similarities in Trump. Right now, people aren't identifying Trump as a 'liberal' or 'conservative', just pro-American - what he's saying is making sense and resonating.

Most Americans aren't ideological, they just want ideas and policies that work. Conservatism works. Even you would vote for it, as long as Daily Kos, Jon Stewart, Mother Jones and ThinkProgress didn't tell you something or someone is too 'conservative'

"Electoral math" is for small thinkers who want to put every candidate (and every state) into an ideological, partisan box - red state vs blue state. He's too left, she's too right, nominate a moderate etc.

They're all wrong.

I prefer to think bigger:

ElectionMap1984.jpg


Don't worry, I'm not offended. The fact is, much smarter individuals at the RNC don't get it either - which is why they keep losing.

Well Sheriff...It appears there's no hope for you. Let's not misunderstand each other here though. I understand exactly what you're saying. I just think you are wrong on most of it.

You are correct about some things though. One of those is that the average american likes simple sentences and sound bites. The Republican party does a MUCH better job of presenting that to voters than Dems do. As to WHY they like things that way, well we shall leave that for another discussion.

"Electoral Math" isn't for any specific set of people or "thinkers". It's simply an intricate analysis of data. If you have no background in that area, then you are much more likely to have the attitude that you do. The data isn't an "opinion". It's about facts. Analyzing election data and forming political strategies based on it is NO DIFFERENT than analyzing sales data and forming business/sales strategies from it. Anyone who thinks that is bullshit is just plain ignorant.

I don't have the exact numbers on hand at the moment but the electoral math you despise so much is simply saying something along these lines:

In 1980 75% of the electorate was white and 55% of whites voted Republican.
In 2012 60% of the electorate was white and 55% of whites voted Republican.
And on the other side of that equation is also reality that by a large percentage NON-WHITE people vote overwhelmingly for Dems.
Why they do it doesn't matter. THAT they do it does.

You can hide behind the "big picture" all you want. And YES I DO AGREE that a candidate who can speak to the masses versus just railing about left or right, can most definitely overcome a lot of things and thus gain the votes of people that "traditionally" would not vote for them, BUT...Here's the REAL POINT....As much as YOU may want him to be or think he is, Donald Trump is NOT that candidate. And neither is Ted Cruz. Not even in the neighborhood.

TRUMP is surely different from the "traditional" candidate. But he's way too narcissistic and demeaning of entire groups of people. You don't have any clue do you, of how many women who WOULD have voted for him won't even consider it now due to just the things he said about Fiorina?

Oh you WANT them to be that good. That's obvious. BUT they are NOWHERE near that.

You talk about the Dem party being different back in the 80's and "conveniently" ignore how whacked the Repub party has become. You do realize that Reagan would literally be pushed aside in today's republican party? He raised taxes 11 times. HE came up with the Earned Income Tax Credit program among other things. He granted amnesty to millions. Can you fucking imagine how LOW his poll numbers would be today in that delirious party of yours?

THAT is why I LMFAO at people like you and call you guys Conservatards....You praise Reagan at every chance YET you ignore so many FACTS about him and his administration. And when ANYBODY in your party acts that way and proposes things that he ACTUALLY did, you lose your fucking minds, call them RINO pieces of shit, and start looking for a tea party loon to run against them in a primary.

You can't have it BOTH ways. You are either PRO Reagan or not. And that's what you don't understand or maybe just choose to stay in denial about. Same result.
Keep looking at that "big picture" Sheriff. I guarantee you'll NEVER see it in your lifetime. It's nice to have memories though :):)
 

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it is beyond incredible how the US manufacture sector was NEARLY raped yet again with the 'fast-track' Trans Pacific Partnership deal. These politicians ensuring the American public that it would CREATE jobs for Americans. A sales pitch, as Clinton successfully did in 2000 passing into law the historic bill granting permanent normal trade relations with China; then watching China destroy you guys all in the name on increased EPS for American multinationals. Your country NEARLY WAS STUPID ENOUGH to repeat with TPP!!!!!!!!!!!




Bush- yes for TPP (there's a surprise....:)...)
Rubio- the smooth talking snake, ala Clinton--.“The TPP is a promising trade agreement that I believe will provide immediate benefits once it’s finalized and can eventually serve as the basis for creating a hemisphere-wide free-trade zone... yes for TPP; 'hemisphere-wide free trade zone' ? wtf? free trade with third countries Mr Rubio? environmental and wage arbitrage with third countries does WHAT for manufacturing jobs in America, Mr Rubio?



and a sneak preview of TPP?


"In March 2012, President Obama inaugurated a free trade pact with South Korea and in many ways, it provides a template for what we may expect from a broader TPP.
Imports from South Korea are up 3.6 billion, U.S. exports are down marginally and the U.S. trade deficit with the Asian nation has swelled to 5 billion. That free trade deal alone has killed about 25,000 American jobs—mostly in high paying manufacturing activities—and added to downward pressures on wages and worsened income inequality."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-asian-trade-deal-sells-out-american-workers/


Fiorina's foreign policy experience she lauds is tainted with anti-American directives while calling the shots
at HP. Outsourcing 30,000 American jobs & skirting around & defying Iran US sanctions. And I'm being
charitable to her by saying Fiorina is an absolutely anti-American selfserving uncommonly loathsome creature.
If any of the other candidates on either side moved & lived next me me I'd try to be neighborly. If Fiorina lived next to me I'd move!
 

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Fiorina's foreign policy experience she lauds is tainted with anti-American directives while calling the shots
at HP. Outsourcing 30,000 American jobs & skirting around & defying Iran US sanctions. And I'm being
charitable to her by saying Fiorina is an absolutely anti-American selfserving uncommonly loathsome creature.
If any of the other candidates on either side moved & lived next me me I'd try to be neighborly. If Fiorina lived next to me I'd move!

That's funny...No seriously...I'm LMAO in a good way. I'm gonna steal that line... "uncommonly loathsome creature"...WELL DONE!

w-thumbs!^
 

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That's funny...No seriously...I'm LMAO in a good way. I'm gonna steal that line... "uncommonly loathsome creature"...WELL DONE!

w-thumbs!^


I appreciate that! Please feel free to use my characterization of Fiorina on anyone
except me!
 

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I doubt you would move if Fiorina moved next to you NB. Probably be fucking her on the side.....

The Fiorina hype train is getting a little out of control. She is now all the way up to 4th in odds on 5D, talk about overpriced. I'd be shocked if she won.

She interrupts more than the Seahawks secondary intercepts.
 
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Naive is you not understanding that failure is often prerequisite to success. Do you remember a guy named Bill Bellichik in Cleveland?

She ran an 86 billion dollar company with near 150,000 employees. She navigated that behemoth at a time when her competitors were shutting their doors. Does the name Gateway Computer ring a bell?

Exactly which of the candidates, Republican or Democrat, could run an 86 billion dollar company?

Listen to the woman. She has her shit together and could shake up Washington just like your boy, Donald. Except I personally think that Carly could bury Clinton in debate in ways that male conservatives could not do. Effectively I think she gives conservatives their best shot to win.

You don't need to agree with me but "naive or ignorant" does certainly not fit me or Ms Fiorina.
 

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This is a nitpick but I do think she interrupts so much because she knows she can get away with it. It is a lot easier for these guys to be aggressive, insult one another and talk over one another. You can't really do that with a woman and she knows it.

Hilary knows this too. Her senate debate with Rick Lazio or whatever his name was, she kinda did that to him the whole time if I recall.

She definitely has some momentum and I think women will like her because she is 1 of them but probably a little more relateable than Hilary but for someone with no political experience to win, you would think their real world accomplishments would be a little more impressive than running a tech company at the wrong time.
 

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Always good reading what all have to say here. More about politics here than anywhere else! This election is probably my last chance to see the "Powers that Are" Be no more! Straight Talk not anymore DoubleTalk or as G.O. called it in his book 1984....... Doublespeak.

I'll read again/again and again :toast:

My last post in the Poly until It's Trump vs. Grandma. Last here if it's not....... Looking forward to that Debate popcorn-eatinggif
 

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I doubt you would move if Fiorina moved next to you NB. Probably be fucking her on the side.....

The Fiorina hype train is getting a little out of control. She is now all the way up to 4th in odds on 5D, talk about overpriced. I'd be shocked if she won.

She interrupts more than the Seahawks secondary intercepts.

Relax. With poker fraud vtard-like limits, those odds are beyond useless.
 

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Relax. With poker fraud vtard-like limits, those odds are beyond useless.

lots of people waiting for your primary and general election picks. You are the golden goose of fades in sports and politics.

Cmon Joey......post some mush for the board again.
 

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Naive is you not understanding that failure is often prerequisite to success. Do you remember a guy named Bill Bellichik in Cleveland?

She ran an 86 billion dollar company with near 150,000 employees. She navigated that behemoth at a time when her competitors were shutting their doors. Does the name Gateway Computer ring a bell?

Exactly which of the candidates, Republican or Democrat, could run an 86 billion dollar company?

Listen to the woman. She has her shit together and could shake up Washington just like your boy, Donald. Except I personally think that Carly could bury Clinton in debate in ways that male conservatives could not do. Effectively I think she gives conservatives their best shot to win.

You don't need to agree with me but "naive or ignorant" does certainly not fit me or Ms Fiorina.

Wouldn't a Fiorina vs Hillary final be amazing! Good Grief!
We would see an American immigrant crisis heading toward Canada after an election like that.
It's virtually impossible to find a defender of Fiorina's gross mismanagement at HP
The mystery of Carly's "achievements" was solved by many other people years ago.

What I really am curious about is how the hell does Fiorina stand up on the stage and
talk tough about the Iran deal, sanctions etc -
While she was in charge HP was illegally evading sanctions selling to Iran?

This is a 7+ year old story - yet none of the 11 other on stage candidates
(or moderators) called her out on this?


"Worst CEO" from day one at HP. She spent $200 Million changing the HP logo to HP Invent.
She spent $tens of millions on new Gulfstream jets that were not needed. She tried to buy PriceWaterhouseCooper
for 5 times what they were worth, which fortunately did not go through. IBM eventually bought PWC for 1/5 what
Carly was offering. Unfortunately, she was able to get the Compaq deal to go through, which cost HP $19 Billion.
PC's at that time had a profit margin of 1%. She paid for the deal by issuing 1 Billion shares of HP stock, which
had already dropped under her tenure from $55 to $19 per share. We calculated that at the profit margin of the
day that it would take 80 years to break even. Clearly, Carly is no visionary, but an opportunistic saleswoman of
which we do not need. She got paid $40 million for contributing to the devastation of the silicon valley cornerstone.'
 

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Relax. With poker fraud vtard-like limits, those odds are beyond useless.

Yeah I know but there really isn't anywhere to look that is better these days.

FWIW Bookmaker does have 5k on the limits, however, they don't let you bet the "no" so that is useless as well. Carly +780 there. Obviously no at like 10-1 would be free money in our opinion.
 

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he Fiorina hype train is getting a little out of control. She is now all the way up to 4th in odds on 5D, talk about overpriced. I'd be shocked if she won.
She is now tied for the lead in NH.

A Voter Gravity poll released Friday shows Fiorina with 22 percent support among Granite State GOP primary voters. She has a 4-point edge over her nearest competitor, bigwig billionaire Donald Trump, who has 18 percent support.
Hotair.com
 

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She is now tied for the lead in NH.


Hotair.com

I don't see it. Whatever bump she got from the debate I doubt sustains. Ben Carson was 2nd in the polls 3 days ago, how much of a shot do you think he has?

Feel free to bet it though if you think it is value.
 

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