Joey, I'm personally not 'whining' about it, especially since I picked up my marbles and left a long time ago. No one is disputing that WSEX has a right to run their business as they see fit - however, this IS a sportsbook forum and this topic was started by batuista, who for his own reasons would like to play again at WSEX, but I have no attachment to ANY book except those that pay and offer good value.
But to say this is 'whining' is not true - he's simply asking WSEX to improve for whatever reason - what's so wrong about that? I don't see any over-complicating going on here with this concept.
But to say this is 'whining' is not true - he's simply asking WSEX to improve for whatever reason - what's so wrong about that? I don't see any over-complicating going on here with this concept.
First, WSEX offers dime lines up to about -145 and then it goes to 15 cents, so they aren't a "true" dime shop.
But, to some degree, that's irrelevant because you shop for the best price. If they have it, fine, if not, you go somewhere else.
I like WSEX but they pissed me off. When I send money via W. Union, I send $999. Pinnacle pays the fees if you send $1000 or more. I always send $999 so I don't have to show an ID. Pinnacle is fine with this and they still pick up the fees. I asked WSEX if I could do it and the lady gave me a big hassle and finally said I could do it this time but never again. What the f*&k is the big deal? You want to talk about "World Class Service" and doing things that please customers. Pinnacle does it. WSEX does not.
That doesn't mean I won't play there but they certainly won't get the majority of my action unless the vig gets lowered and/or they realize how to treat customers. I have also had a lot of money there and felt very comfortable doing that. They pay and are secure.
But, to some degree, that's irrelevant because you shop for the best price. If they have it, fine, if not, you go somewhere else.
I like WSEX but they pissed me off. When I send money via W. Union, I send $999. Pinnacle pays the fees if you send $1000 or more. I always send $999 so I don't have to show an ID. Pinnacle is fine with this and they still pick up the fees. I asked WSEX if I could do it and the lady gave me a big hassle and finally said I could do it this time but never again. What the f*&k is the big deal? You want to talk about "World Class Service" and doing things that please customers. Pinnacle does it. WSEX does not.
That doesn't mean I won't play there but they certainly won't get the majority of my action unless the vig gets lowered and/or they realize how to treat customers. I have also had a lot of money there and felt very comfortable doing that. They pay and are secure.
Oh yeah - one other thing, the difference in the price of gas in a comparable area (say within 1-5 blocks) doesn't differ a whole lot by brand due to market competition - say 5 cents on the outside. At current prices around $1.55 for regular unleaded in the KC area, a price of $1.60 is only 3.2% greater (allowing a Shell to charge a premium for it's brand) - the differences with WSEX's odds are a bit more than that. But if Shell started charging $1.80, they wouldn't stay in business very long once the perceived value in the brand name was overridden by the extra cost - same as WSEX as this industry evolves toward more reduced vig. Do I know where that point is? Hell no, but it's somewhere.
When Pinnacle has been around as long as WSEX has with no complaints--then tells us all about Pinnacle. I'm not saying they are not a good book. But the poster should have sent an email to WSEX. He has an agenda here against them. I don't think it will work. Their site is what all should be simple and easy to navigate and I for one am glad they don't ask the players what their line should be! Ridiculous!
At this point in time and when it comes to understanding of the market, there are mainly 2 kinds of shops out there.
There are shops that have fully comprehended the power of the Internet and its consequences. Let's think about it: Internet is nothing but information. And we all agree about the fact that knowledge IS power. Nowadays, it takes far less time for a player to learn what he's gotta do to win when betting on sports.
Availibility of info on injuries, training camp, athletes getting in trouble, value of a line, all of these things are advantages the player can learn to acquire, in order to have a bigger edge.
One of the biggest value points is to NOT pay more money for the same product. There's simply no reason for it. And shops that were considered as the pioneers of this industry, need to be compromised with a constant process of renovation. The minute you fail to stay competitive in the market, that same minute you'll be sleeping with the "fishes".
That's the exact reason why batistuta's thread is such a good one. He's posing questions that require an answer. In essence:
Will WSEX or will they not keep up with the spirit of the time?
I find batistuta to be a GREAT customer. The guy is basically begging for reasons to stay, but he's smart and he knows where the money is going. And you can't make money going against it, can you?
And justto finish making my points, there are shops out there that have yet to understand what they are doing.
When it comes to post up, most offshore books rely on the same form of exposure: the Internet. Some do run other form of campaigns, but let's make no mistake: as soon as a player engages himself in a process of learning and understanding the industry, that same player will be going to places where value lays. Nad the Inetrnet is a great cheap form of education. How much you wann learn depends only on how much you're willing to research.
This coming football season, the money will be where the reduced juice is being dealt. It will be a transition year. Some people might stay with price gauging shops, but in 2 more years all those books refusing to change will be appreciated for what they will be: dinosaurs of a past era.
Great thread, batistuta.
There are shops that have fully comprehended the power of the Internet and its consequences. Let's think about it: Internet is nothing but information. And we all agree about the fact that knowledge IS power. Nowadays, it takes far less time for a player to learn what he's gotta do to win when betting on sports.
Availibility of info on injuries, training camp, athletes getting in trouble, value of a line, all of these things are advantages the player can learn to acquire, in order to have a bigger edge.
One of the biggest value points is to NOT pay more money for the same product. There's simply no reason for it. And shops that were considered as the pioneers of this industry, need to be compromised with a constant process of renovation. The minute you fail to stay competitive in the market, that same minute you'll be sleeping with the "fishes".
That's the exact reason why batistuta's thread is such a good one. He's posing questions that require an answer. In essence:
Will WSEX or will they not keep up with the spirit of the time?
I find batistuta to be a GREAT customer. The guy is basically begging for reasons to stay, but he's smart and he knows where the money is going. And you can't make money going against it, can you?
And justto finish making my points, there are shops out there that have yet to understand what they are doing.
When it comes to post up, most offshore books rely on the same form of exposure: the Internet. Some do run other form of campaigns, but let's make no mistake: as soon as a player engages himself in a process of learning and understanding the industry, that same player will be going to places where value lays. Nad the Inetrnet is a great cheap form of education. How much you wann learn depends only on how much you're willing to research.
This coming football season, the money will be where the reduced juice is being dealt. It will be a transition year. Some people might stay with price gauging shops, but in 2 more years all those books refusing to change will be appreciated for what they will be: dinosaurs of a past era.
Great thread, batistuta.
Joey - no I dont expect them to adjust their lines based on my post. But I do expect them to take notice if many others agree. That was the purpose, to see if I am alone or if others agree, and then maybe wsex will pay attention.
Joey, the real purpose of my thread is to get answers and understanding. I want to understand if wsex does indeed have a market of overpayers and can make money - just as i want to understand if they are not going to be around because of their lack of innovation.
I do make a decision to play elsewhere. But to me it is important to bring these things amongst ourselves, the gambling public, to bring issues to light. How many times do you see the thread "what sportsbook should I play at?" and I think these people deserve to have full disclosure of all the facts. Why does it seem like you dont want these things discussed? It is just a fact finding mission - and if these things make it better at wsex then that is a bonus - but at the core it is a round table discussion of experienced gamblers. I have a feeling wsex has the same sentiments as you - keep this all as hush hush as possible - but because of the state of the industry I think we all owe it to our fellow gamblers to discuss honestly all that we can.
Joey, the real purpose of my thread is to get answers and understanding. I want to understand if wsex does indeed have a market of overpayers and can make money - just as i want to understand if they are not going to be around because of their lack of innovation.
I do make a decision to play elsewhere. But to me it is important to bring these things amongst ourselves, the gambling public, to bring issues to light. How many times do you see the thread "what sportsbook should I play at?" and I think these people deserve to have full disclosure of all the facts. Why does it seem like you dont want these things discussed? It is just a fact finding mission - and if these things make it better at wsex then that is a bonus - but at the core it is a round table discussion of experienced gamblers. I have a feeling wsex has the same sentiments as you - keep this all as hush hush as possible - but because of the state of the industry I think we all owe it to our fellow gamblers to discuss honestly all that we can.
Batistuta:
Originally posted by Joey C:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Obviously, they make a conscious decision EVERY DAY, when they post their lines, on where they want to price.
Seems to me you should do the same thing.
Best of Luck
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think what Joey C was trying to say is that WSEX will not pay attention to your request (their bad). So you should move on and play somewhere else.
I think this is a great thread, Batistuta. From which we all can learn.
Originally posted by Joey C:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Obviously, they make a conscious decision EVERY DAY, when they post their lines, on where they want to price.
Seems to me you should do the same thing.
Best of Luck
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think what Joey C was trying to say is that WSEX will not pay attention to your request (their bad). So you should move on and play somewhere else.
I think this is a great thread, Batistuta. From which we all can learn.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I wouldn't wait for WSEX to give Bautista a special prize here, or send an apology letter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, unfortunately. But this is the kind of threads we need here. If I were one of the guys at WSEX's helmet, I'd make sure to always listen to this type of feedback.
Batistuta started a good topic, which very essence attains all of us. Players for once can learn where to do their shopping and bookers can learn what they need to do to improve.
Don't you think?
Yeah, unfortunately. But this is the kind of threads we need here. If I were one of the guys at WSEX's helmet, I'd make sure to always listen to this type of feedback.
Batistuta started a good topic, which very essence attains all of us. Players for once can learn where to do their shopping and bookers can learn what they need to do to improve.
Don't you think?
