American Idol Final Tonight

jcambert · May 20, 2003

Hache, you might be right. And, I think you are DEFINATELY right about Clay over Ruben. If you know anything about music, then it should be clear that Clay is BY FAR the better singer. It's not even that close, really. His voice is more powerful, he has a greater vocal range, and, frankly, he is more silky smooth. I've never heard him miss a note. It would be a shame for ANYONE other than Clay to win this competition.

JP

Oren1 · May 20, 2003

No one is saying that Clay doesn't have the better voice. But it's a democracy. Look at who the American people elected as their president, not exactly the smartest, most eligible candidate, but the guy with the better image. (and the better politician, i.e. liar/manipulator/conniver

)

bartybet · May 20, 2003

what if they tie?

jcambert · May 21, 2003

Right, he WAS the better politician, just like Clay is the better singer. And, as such, I think the American people will make the right choice.

SonofaGun · May 21, 2003

what I'm saying is that it's NOT up to the American public as they claim -- it's up to the producers, execs., investors, and anyone else who has a big hand in the cash cow of American Idol.

jcambert · May 21, 2003

Maybe, but, considering that it's the American Public who is going to be BUYING these records, don't you think it would benefit them to name the winner of the American Public's vote, as the winner? What you are saying doesn't make much sense. If Clay receives more votes, it's obviously because there is greater support for him. And, like someone brought up in another thread. Clay's single is currently number ONE on the Amazon.com sales rank. Where is Reuben's? Number 300+

JP

Oren1 · May 21, 2003

yes, better politician, but not necesarily better for America's interests, unless you happen to be in the top 5% of the wealthiest people alive. Anyways, I hope it ends up being a tie, I think it's the only hope for Ruben bettors of recouping their wagers.

jcambert · May 21, 2003

Oren, you are missing the point. It was a bad example to begin with from you, but, BECAUSE he was a better politician (regardless of how good he is currently for your personal interests), he won the election. Similarly, BECAUSE he is a better singer, Clay will win this competition.

As for these outrageous conspiracy theories, they hold no water. Why? Because the show's producers want to make money, and, if that's the case, they would take the one who has the potential to sell the most records, and, quite clearly, that would be the person that the public (who BUYS those records) votes the winner. How would it benefit them to take someone who the majority of the public voted AGAINST?

JP

Oren1 · May 21, 2003

So you're telling me that what America needs as a leader is a "politician," a dirty, corrupt, liar? It was a good comparison. George Bush is a moron, a very poor public speaker, an army deserter, and a lying sack of shit. Al Gore, on the other hand, is an awkward, geeky, yet more articulate, better spoken, and more competent civil cervant, if you ask me. Who won? The rich, spoiled pretty boy with more charisma. Who's got more charisma, Ruben, or Clay? I'd say Ruben, even though he is a lard-ass, and I guess they said Clay has improved his image, but I don't even like his voice that much, I think it's annoying. When I see that little momma's boy up on stage I just want to pimp slap his silly ass. Ruben, on the other hand, is laid back, cool, and emits a positive aura. I would have voted for him regardless, but of course all the phone lines were tied up.

jcambert · May 21, 2003

You are refusing to see the point here. Whether you think he's better for the American people or not is irrelevant. OBVIOUSLY, because he was elected, enough people felt he was the best for the people. You said he was a better politician and that's why he won, which is correct. If enough people had felt about him as negatively as you do, then he obviously wouldn't have won, would he? THAT is the point. Clay is the better singer, period, and, enough people feel that way, to make him the eventual winner, PERIOD. I refuse to continue in this discussion with you, considering that you JUST DONT GET IT. Who CARES what you think about Bush? He "fooled" enough people into voting for him, that he WON, period. YOu are talking about POLITICS, and, by your own admission, he was the better politician. And, in this case, you are talking about MUSIC, and, quite clearly, Clay is the better Musician. I don't understand what type of absurd point you are going after. Clay is the better musician, he has more public support (look at the sales rank in their records at Amazon), and, he had the better final performances yesterday. It's a done deal. It's over for your boy. No offense, but, if you have never watched an episode, and, you took a guy like Reuben because he was "the favorite" as you had indicated in a previous post, then you don't deserve to win this bet. That is an amateurish wager.

JP

Tekari · May 21, 2003

Ruben at -150? comeon that is horrible odds. I think clay wins but even if it is ruben...
certainly -150 is not a +EV bet.

Go Clay!!!!

jcambert · May 21, 2003

By the way, we should end this discussion right now, because, as soon as you said that you didn't like Clay's voice that much, because it was "annoying" you indicated to me that you know about as much about Music as I do about cooking, and, to be honest, that's not very much. If you are going to even SUGGEST that Reuben is in the same ballpark as Clay, with respect to their voices, then, my friend, you are completely clueless. And, in case you didn't know it, all the papers are writing about how Reuben, when the commercials come on, is absolutely obnoxious. He doesn't even acknowledge the audience, and, is EXTREMELY standoffish. Not to mention the fact that, as you said, he is GROTESQUELY, MORBIDLY obese, and looks like he's going to die of heat stroke every time that he takes the stage. Did you SEE those beads of sweat flowing last night? Let's face it, neither is the best looking dude in the world, but, when all is said and done, I'm confident that America will have made the right choice.

PS. Look at all the polls now, and you will see that Clay is the winner by an overwhelming margin.

JP

Oren1 · May 21, 2003

Technically, Bush didn't actually "win" the election anyways, it was stolen. The conservative Supreme Court handed it to him after his brother in Florida skewed that state's election resuts. It's more complicated than I think either of us are willing to get into especially on this gambling board. Anyways, my analogy was supposed to be this: George Bush, not the better president, but better public persona, Ruben, not the better singer, but better public persona. GET IT NOW? That was how it was before last night's show, anyways. And if you even try to say the George Bush is doing a good job at president, well, I guess I'm just wasting my breath on you. Take a look at the frickin economy for one thing. How about some more tax cuts for the rich? Which is one thing that helped him win votes in the first place, by the way, by LYING to middle america by telling them that he was going to cut their taxes. Little did those shop owners and farmers know that you had to make over 300,000 K a year to get the brunt of the tax cut. Hey, our federal deficit is ENORMOUS now, lets cut the taxes of the filthy rich by billions more and cut social services of the dsipraged, unemplyed, even MORE! What a feakin' great president. Where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, by the way? Hmmmmmm? That mother****er let the twin towers go down in flames so his oil buddies and Halliburton, who are no doubt lining his pockets in some hidden overseas bank account, could go in and exploit Iraq. Blah, blah, blah....

jcambert · May 21, 2003

I'm not here to talk or argue politics, so this will be my final post on this absurd analogy. You said, that Bush won because he had the better public persona, not because he was a better president, and that Reuben has the better persona. I will tell you why this is a stupid example, end of discussion.

1) Who was to know that he wouldn't make the better president? I'm pretty sure that the people who voted for him, did so BECAUSE they thought he WOULD make the better president. You are talking about something in hindsight, not in foresight.

2) This is not a "public persona" competition, this is a SINGING competition, and, as such, it's not even close, my friend. Clay is the better "singer." And, it's even arguable as to who has the better "public persona" because, frankly, I don't see even the SLIGHTEST bit of charisma emanating from Reuben's persona.

Nuff said, discussion over. Clay's the winner, my friend, despite your "hard luck" and completely uninformed (by YOUR own admission) wager.

JP

jcambert · May 21, 2003

Just thought of an even BETTER way to make my point.

Surely, you don't think that people, in their minds, were saying: "sure, this guy is going to SUCK as president, and Gore will probably be a GREAT one, but, I'm going to vote for Bush anyway, just cause I like his charisma better."

do you?

My point exactly. They voted for him, because THEY (not necesarily YOU), felt that he would make a better president. Most people agree that Clay is the better singer. Again, if you don't believe me, go check out the sales ranks at Amazon. People are buying HIS single (not Reuben's), in droves.

JP

Oren1 · May 21, 2003

Is it REALLY purely a singing competiton? It's called American Idol. You think the Backstreet Boys would be that popular if they were a bunch of lanky, dorky, buck-toothed momma's boys? Probably wouldn't be too popular if they were fat-asses, either. But whatever. Nothing in todays pop cuture is judged soley on talent. MTV changed that back in the 80's, dude, that was like 2 decades ago. And as for politics, that was one of my points, that people voted for him because they THOUGHT he would be a good president, merely because he looked good! Most Americans are politically ignorant, admit it! They spend their day watching Jerry Springer, not reading the newspaper where the truth about the Republican agenda might be found.

People voted for Al Gore in droves, as well, he actually got more votes than Bush... With Ruben probably getting the vast majority of the ethnic votes, I think he still has an outside shot at this.

[This message was edited by Oren1 on May 21, 2003 at 07:35 PM.]

[This message was edited by Oren1 on May 21, 2003 at 07:38 PM.]

SonofaGun · May 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oren1:
.. When I see that little momma's boy up on stage I just want to pimp slap his silly ass. ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol

SonofaGun · May 21, 2003

I still have hope that Ruben will take it home. C'mon!!!!

jcambert · May 21, 2003

Oren, I don't wanna be an asshole, but, you know what the problem is? You made a degenerate gambler type of bet, because you couldn't resist the action, and, you are coming to the realization that you are going to lose it, and, it hurts. You had admitted to taking Reuben because he was the favorite, despite never having seen an episode, and, guess what? He's not the favorite any more. And, you are bitter about it. It was a dumb bet. I was touting Clay weeks and weeks ago, when he was at +250, and, I got TREMENDOUS value, as it turns out. You layed money on the wrong guy, and now it's coming back to bite you. Don't worry about it, dude, just live and learn, but stop sweating it. It's not very becoming.

JP

Oren1 · May 21, 2003

Dude, you're trippin'. I'm merely defending my position that I took yesterday. Ruben was the heavy favorite before last nights show, you can't deny that. You might have had a better perception on what the outcome might have been, I'll give you that, but until the last song came along the prize was still up in the air. You think I'm going to back down from your sometimes weak arguments? Think again. Degenerate? No. I'm a recreational gambler, it's not like I'm going to have to go wait in a soup line this weekend because sorry me picked the wrong guy to win American Idol. Whenever you poll 750,000 people and 56% of them pick a winner, 99% of the time they are going to be representative of the entire population. This is basic statistics, you should know these things if you consider yourself a superior gambler than myself. Unfortunately Clay's performance last night changed all that. That's why it's called gambling. I can admit that I lost, I'm not going to back down from your scewed arguments, however.