Austin 3:16 says i just whooped your ass!!!!!sorry had to do that..... i think everyone should live their own life the way they want to, of course, while respecting others. myself, im not atheist or theist.. i consider myself agnostic, i cant assure what exists or what doesnt.... unless what i can touch, see or feel.nobody has the right to tell other people how to live or what to believe in, but we all have the responsability to be good people, to be good citizens, and to treat everyone equally
Austin 3:16 says i just whooped your ass!!!!!sorry had to do that..... i think everyone should live their own life the way they want to, of course, while respecting others. myself, im not atheist or theist.. i consider myself agnostic, i cant assure what exists or what doesnt.... unless what i can touch, see or feel.nobody has the right to tell other people how to live or what to believe in, but we all have the responsability to be good people, to be good citizens, and to treat everyone equally
if it feels good and i feel like doing it and if the lady i feel like doing it with agrees and she also thinks it feels good.... i would do it in public.... there's nothing dirty on that, is there? Listen my friend, if u want to follow those rules, you are welcome, is your right, NOT MY OBLIGATION to do so.... is also your right to teach what you believe in to your kids.... BUT IS NOT THEIR OBLIGATION to live that way once they grow up.
Atheism is a religion, and I don't have enough faith to be
an atheist.
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Eno...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215889026&sr=8-1
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top" width="0">
</td> <td align="left" valign="top" width="100%"> 140 of 154 people found the following review helpful:
A Review In Two Parts, <nobr>June 19, 2005</nobr>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">By </td><td>Mark Eremite "This Is A Display Model Only"
(Seoul, South Korea) - See all my reviews
</td></tr></tbody></table>
THE BOOK:
I am an agnostic who is looking for something to believe in. I have searched for years now, and generally am met with lukewarm explanations and radical fundamentalism from both camps. I am not self-righteous or pig-headed enough to categorically dismiss atheist or religious arguments simply because their tone bothered me, but it does get tiresome to be on the receiving end of what is usually more bitterness and dogmatic posturing than any kind of intelligent thought or reason.
Again, I'm talking about atheists as well as religious zealots.
Which is why I enjoyed this book so much.
This is a concise, well-crafted, thoughtful and thought-provoking piece of work. There is real insight to be gleaned from the pages, and although the sum total isn't what any open-minded person would call 100% convincing, it definitely gets much closer than anything else I've discovered.
There is much talk about this book setting up straw men to be knocked down, and although the book does do that on a few occasions, it is by no means what the ultimate premise is based on. In fact, although there were some sketchy arguments and hastily covered bases, and although there were explanations missing and topics omitted, I still felt, on the whole, that it was one of the more successful books I've read from either camp.
The tone (while every once in a while devolving into brief moments of snideness and cockiness) is generally quite intelligent and emotionally removed. There is little here that is bullying or smug, and for that I was grateful. It leant the text, with its vast array of debates and discussions, a snappy and no-nonsense delivery that helped elucidate the more hazily understood, philosophical explanations.
Although, in the end, I wasn't entirely convinced by the book, I was pushed much closer to being convinced than I have yet by any book, religious, atheistic, or otherwise.
THE CRITICS:
In the course of my research, I read the reviews and the comments made by consumers on Amazon.com in order to determine how best to spend my money. I don't want to buy an atheist or christian apologetic book if what I'm going to get is watered down theories and trite cliches.
At this point, I think it would be appropriate to point out that this is, in fact, a forum for discussing the merits of the product, and not the merits of the beliefs or arguments espoused within. I understand that it's hard to remove the deeper values of the work from the work itself, but it can be done. So, if, for instance, if you are an honest consumer, you can point out the cinematic brilliance of films like the Last Temptation of Christ in spite of what that film may or may not say about the religion you may or may not adhere to.
I was dismayed by how many inflammatory and rather pointless criticisms I found for this book. I'd never read it, but I could tell by the tone and stance of the reviews that they were reacting more out of indignation toward the subject matter than out of any knowledge of the text itself. One reviewer scorned the book for being written by David Limbaugh, when the man only wrote the forward. Another person decried the book for being "all about politics," when, as far as I could tell, there wasn't a word about politics, just beliefs or the lack of them.
If you are a critic of christianity, that's fine. Trust me, I understand your point of view. But your clumsily summarized view points and your indignant rebuttals do little to enlighten people who may be interested in buying this book. There are forums in which you can openly discuss and debate these topics, but this is not one of them. This is about saying whether or not the book is worth buying. Instead of doing that, most of you have instead attempted to explain your own beliefs, as if you want to write your own book in response to Christianity, but can't be bothered.
For someone such as myself, looking for intelligent and candid help with the question of Larger Purposes (or their absence), your poorly worded rants and emotional appeals -- especially those of you wearing your rage on your sleeve -- do nothing to help me. For future reference, if you really want to help someone like me understand your points of view, instead of typing out some sloppy summation or more key-worded dismissals (argument from ignorance! straw men!), perhaps you could actually RECOMMEND A DIFFERENT BOOK.
I am always on the lookout for some way to increase my knowledge of the world, and my knowledge of what that world may do to better explain the validity or non-validity of any religion. Unlike many of you, though, I haven't been convinced yet, either way. I read your reviews in the hopes that you may be able to point me down the same path that led to your own enlightenment of absolute certainty, but all most of you did was make vacuous complaints about the book and then insult people who might actually believe or buy it.
So, if you've come online to write a scathing review or to tear apart the praisers of this book, go right ahead. But keep in mind that your own viewpoints -- as right or wrong as they might be -- are less welcome than your criticisms of the actual book in question. And if you DO think you've got it all figured out, and if you DON'T think this book does, you could at least try to share that knowledge by pointing someone like me in the right direction, and by doing that without the same snobbish condecension that you sometimes find in the relgious believers whom you so adamantly decry.
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top" width="0"> </td> <td align="left" valign="top" width="100%"> 158 of 218 people found the following review helpful:
The Truth Is Marching On!, <nobr>April 21, 2004</nobr>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">By </td><td>R. J. Hough "solafide"
(Peachtree City, Ga. USA) - See all my reviews
</td></tr></tbody></table>
"I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" convincingly shows why atheism and other non-Christian views require a lot more faith than Christianity. Geisler and Turek build their case from the question of truth all the way to truth of the Bible. Along the way, in a readable and often entertaining way, they debunk relativism, agnosticism, atheism, Darwinism and New Testament liberalism. Their explanations of how the big bang, the design found in both the Universe and living organisms (like humans!), and morality point to God are worth the price of the book.
I especially like the clarity they bring to the creation-evolution debate. Their point about how science is built on philosophy helps clear away much of the dust kicked into that often raucous debate. "It's not about the Bible vs. science or religion vs. science" they write, "but about good science vs. bad science." Geisler and Turek show that it's actually the Darwinists who are practicing the bad science. Darwinists rule out intelligent causes before they even look at the evidence. In doing so, they ignore observation-- the very foundation of science-- much as the opponents of Galileo once did. That's bad science built on bad philosophy.
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist has four great chapters that systematically show why the New Testament documents are telling the truth. The authors show why we can be assured that the documents were written within a few decades of the evens which they report and contain historically-confirmed eyewitness details. They also cite non-Christian writers, archaeology, and list over 30 characters found in the New Testament that have been confirmed by secular sources. But they are at their best when they point out how the New Testament story is an unlikely invention. After listing a series of embarrassing gaffes of the apostles, Geisler and Turek ask the reader, "If you were a New Testament writer, would you include these embarrassing details if you were making up a story? Would you write that one of your primary leaders was called 'Satan' by Jesus, denied the Lord three times, hid during the crucifixion, and was later corrected on a theological issue? Would you depict yourselves as uncaring, bumbling cowards, and the women-whose testimony was not even admissible in court-as the brave ones who stood by Jesus and later discovered the empty tomb? Would you admit that some of you (the eleven remaining disciples) doubted the very Son of God after he had proven himself raised to all of you?" Geisler and Turek don't have enough faith to believe it's a made-up story. Neither do I.
This is an engaging and affirming book with a vast scope. I highly recommend it! </td></tr></tbody></table>
an atheist.
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Eno...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215889026&sr=8-1
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top" width="0">
</td> <td align="left" valign="top" width="100%"> 140 of 154 people found the following review helpful:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">By </td><td>Mark Eremite "This Is A Display Model Only"
(Seoul, South Korea) - See all my reviews
</td></tr></tbody></table> THE BOOK:
I am an agnostic who is looking for something to believe in. I have searched for years now, and generally am met with lukewarm explanations and radical fundamentalism from both camps. I am not self-righteous or pig-headed enough to categorically dismiss atheist or religious arguments simply because their tone bothered me, but it does get tiresome to be on the receiving end of what is usually more bitterness and dogmatic posturing than any kind of intelligent thought or reason.
Again, I'm talking about atheists as well as religious zealots.
Which is why I enjoyed this book so much.
This is a concise, well-crafted, thoughtful and thought-provoking piece of work. There is real insight to be gleaned from the pages, and although the sum total isn't what any open-minded person would call 100% convincing, it definitely gets much closer than anything else I've discovered.
There is much talk about this book setting up straw men to be knocked down, and although the book does do that on a few occasions, it is by no means what the ultimate premise is based on. In fact, although there were some sketchy arguments and hastily covered bases, and although there were explanations missing and topics omitted, I still felt, on the whole, that it was one of the more successful books I've read from either camp.
The tone (while every once in a while devolving into brief moments of snideness and cockiness) is generally quite intelligent and emotionally removed. There is little here that is bullying or smug, and for that I was grateful. It leant the text, with its vast array of debates and discussions, a snappy and no-nonsense delivery that helped elucidate the more hazily understood, philosophical explanations.
Although, in the end, I wasn't entirely convinced by the book, I was pushed much closer to being convinced than I have yet by any book, religious, atheistic, or otherwise.
THE CRITICS:
In the course of my research, I read the reviews and the comments made by consumers on Amazon.com in order to determine how best to spend my money. I don't want to buy an atheist or christian apologetic book if what I'm going to get is watered down theories and trite cliches.
At this point, I think it would be appropriate to point out that this is, in fact, a forum for discussing the merits of the product, and not the merits of the beliefs or arguments espoused within. I understand that it's hard to remove the deeper values of the work from the work itself, but it can be done. So, if, for instance, if you are an honest consumer, you can point out the cinematic brilliance of films like the Last Temptation of Christ in spite of what that film may or may not say about the religion you may or may not adhere to.
I was dismayed by how many inflammatory and rather pointless criticisms I found for this book. I'd never read it, but I could tell by the tone and stance of the reviews that they were reacting more out of indignation toward the subject matter than out of any knowledge of the text itself. One reviewer scorned the book for being written by David Limbaugh, when the man only wrote the forward. Another person decried the book for being "all about politics," when, as far as I could tell, there wasn't a word about politics, just beliefs or the lack of them.
If you are a critic of christianity, that's fine. Trust me, I understand your point of view. But your clumsily summarized view points and your indignant rebuttals do little to enlighten people who may be interested in buying this book. There are forums in which you can openly discuss and debate these topics, but this is not one of them. This is about saying whether or not the book is worth buying. Instead of doing that, most of you have instead attempted to explain your own beliefs, as if you want to write your own book in response to Christianity, but can't be bothered.
For someone such as myself, looking for intelligent and candid help with the question of Larger Purposes (or their absence), your poorly worded rants and emotional appeals -- especially those of you wearing your rage on your sleeve -- do nothing to help me. For future reference, if you really want to help someone like me understand your points of view, instead of typing out some sloppy summation or more key-worded dismissals (argument from ignorance! straw men!), perhaps you could actually RECOMMEND A DIFFERENT BOOK.
I am always on the lookout for some way to increase my knowledge of the world, and my knowledge of what that world may do to better explain the validity or non-validity of any religion. Unlike many of you, though, I haven't been convinced yet, either way. I read your reviews in the hopes that you may be able to point me down the same path that led to your own enlightenment of absolute certainty, but all most of you did was make vacuous complaints about the book and then insult people who might actually believe or buy it.
So, if you've come online to write a scathing review or to tear apart the praisers of this book, go right ahead. But keep in mind that your own viewpoints -- as right or wrong as they might be -- are less welcome than your criticisms of the actual book in question. And if you DO think you've got it all figured out, and if you DON'T think this book does, you could at least try to share that knowledge by pointing someone like me in the right direction, and by doing that without the same snobbish condecension that you sometimes find in the relgious believers whom you so adamantly decry.
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top" width="0"> </td> <td align="left" valign="top" width="100%"> 158 of 218 people found the following review helpful:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">By </td><td>R. J. Hough "solafide"
</td></tr></tbody></table> "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" convincingly shows why atheism and other non-Christian views require a lot more faith than Christianity. Geisler and Turek build their case from the question of truth all the way to truth of the Bible. Along the way, in a readable and often entertaining way, they debunk relativism, agnosticism, atheism, Darwinism and New Testament liberalism. Their explanations of how the big bang, the design found in both the Universe and living organisms (like humans!), and morality point to God are worth the price of the book.
I especially like the clarity they bring to the creation-evolution debate. Their point about how science is built on philosophy helps clear away much of the dust kicked into that often raucous debate. "It's not about the Bible vs. science or religion vs. science" they write, "but about good science vs. bad science." Geisler and Turek show that it's actually the Darwinists who are practicing the bad science. Darwinists rule out intelligent causes before they even look at the evidence. In doing so, they ignore observation-- the very foundation of science-- much as the opponents of Galileo once did. That's bad science built on bad philosophy.
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist has four great chapters that systematically show why the New Testament documents are telling the truth. The authors show why we can be assured that the documents were written within a few decades of the evens which they report and contain historically-confirmed eyewitness details. They also cite non-Christian writers, archaeology, and list over 30 characters found in the New Testament that have been confirmed by secular sources. But they are at their best when they point out how the New Testament story is an unlikely invention. After listing a series of embarrassing gaffes of the apostles, Geisler and Turek ask the reader, "If you were a New Testament writer, would you include these embarrassing details if you were making up a story? Would you write that one of your primary leaders was called 'Satan' by Jesus, denied the Lord three times, hid during the crucifixion, and was later corrected on a theological issue? Would you depict yourselves as uncaring, bumbling cowards, and the women-whose testimony was not even admissible in court-as the brave ones who stood by Jesus and later discovered the empty tomb? Would you admit that some of you (the eleven remaining disciples) doubted the very Son of God after he had proven himself raised to all of you?" Geisler and Turek don't have enough faith to believe it's a made-up story. Neither do I.
This is an engaging and affirming book with a vast scope. I highly recommend it! </td></tr></tbody></table>
Sounds like an interesting read.... I guess I'll always be a liberal free spirit but there's nothing wrong in informing yourself and thinking outside the box
Never gets old reading MARK L (aka "JoeC") wax eloquent for 2000+ words on Judeo-Christian values when he himself is not a practicing Christian. Nor does it get old reading his finger wagging lectures on Family Values when he himself is neither married nor does he have kids.
Do u know that preacher then??? I didnt even bother reading that load of.... lets say Im gonna stick to my values and respect whatever he wrote.... I almost fell sleep with his first post tough.
Agree.... the subject here is, does he have a double moral?
I didn't say 'you' were unwise. I was speaking in the macro and not the micro because you can always find exceptions to everything. Yes, as general rule, atheists are extremely unwise and it behooves good people of faith not to allow this new religion of moral relativism to pollute society more than it already has.
Religion is nothing more than man's spiritual journey in search of universal truth(s). Religion is spiritual science which is why you will find more wisdom and applicable life lessons in the Bible and applicable life than you will in any modern college textbook. Originally, one of the purposes of "higher education" was to educate the population about -- brace yourself -- religion: Judeo-Christian values.
Today, thanks to the liberalization of society, we have institutionalized a more feeling-centric anything-goes religion which has resulted in a skyrocketing rate of immorality and personal misery among Americans.
It is a fact that liberals are less happy and grateful than conservatives in large part because liberals are slaves to their feelings -- envy, lust, jealousy, euphoria, anger...all things God specifically warned us not to give into.
So we have gone from a society that believed in....
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from Evil..."
to...
"Feelings are the highest form of truth. Always trust your feelings."
The Liberal society:
If you don't feel like working, no problem -- society will take of you. If you feel like having unprotected sex and get a girl pregnant, society has it covered. If kids feel like having sex, they should do it, who are we as adults to stop them? If you are married and committed yourself to one woman who has risked/invested a lot of her emotions and time into your relationship, and something more tender and juicer happens to catch your fancy, well screw her! All that matters is your "happiness." Homosexual feelings are just as valid as heterosexual feelings, never mind that God got sloppy and forgot to include a sexual entry point that was naturally lubricated conducive to healthy, pleasurable sex. And never mind that AIDS almost exclusively targets and kills those who practice virtually all modern liberal strains of immorality, that's just "homophobe" propaganda. :missingte
Feelings-uber-alles: Hey, look at me! I am the center of the universe! Screw everyone else!
What NONSENSE -- PURE NARCISSISTIC LIBERAL HOLLYWOOD NONSENSE!
hno: Folks, Hollywood is liberal culture on steroids. By any objective measurable standard, does Hollywood work? Is Hollywood a good environment for raising kids? Does Hollywood have a higher or lower rate of divorce? A higher or lower rate of alcoholism and drug abuse? A higher rate or lower rate of suicide? A higher or lower rate of overall happiness?
So why would we want to model our culture and society after such a model FAILURE?
hno:NARCISSISTIC LIBERALISM = FAILURE!
Ever since large swaths of society have embraced modern liberal values -- 60s and onward -- the decline of American culture and traditional values has been swift and steep.
I can appreciate that as far as your personal life (the micro). However if society (the macro) is not governed by a set of rigid high standards and boundaries, society declines and will eventually cease to exist. Society cannot advance and achieve enlightenment if it keeps lowering itself to the lowest common denominator -- xyz's narcissistic feelings.
That is why the modern standard of feelings-uber-alles is one of the greatest frauds in human history.
I don't care to acknowledge Victor's sexual feelings for Stuart anymore than I care to acknowledge Victor's sexual feelings for his prepubescent sister or his dog Spot. His feelings mean nothing to me -- NOTHING. I care only what's good for society -- period.
Ask not what society should do for you, ask what you can do for society.
As a strict constructionist judge, I would tell Victor to take his dysfunctional hormones and go fuck himself -- literally.
Right, so why are you anti-religion? Like everything in life, there are good religions and bad religions.
For example, Judeo-Christianity vs say, Islam. By every measurable objective standard -- human rights, economics, technological achievement, violence, wars -- Western civilization trumps Islam on everything.
Israel is a western society. If Israel surrendered tomorrow, millions of Jews would die and the state would cease to exist. If Israel's enemies surrendered tomorrow, there would be peace on earth.
Religion (Judeo-Christian values) created civilized western society, not anarchy (feeling-centric values). People take for granted that the values they were taught and raised with where just sort of always 'there' -- magical social norms. In fact if you look at human history you will see that this relatively peaceful and prosperous society we live in is an aberration -- the norm is more like Darfur, Rwanda and Nazi Germany.
How do you know it's a fairy tale? And even if it is, so what? You agree the values Catholicism teaches are 'good' for your family and therefore good for society.
Koidog, if your religion believed iguanas were gods and your iguana made you a socially responsible and financially independent citizen, I would say GREAT! I have no problem with that. I am not making a case that you as an individual must worship 'my' religion.
I am making the case on the MACRO that replacing Judeo-Christian ethics with feelings (narcissistic liberal values) is destroying my country -- spiritually, culturally, economically.
Just when I thought the preaching couldnt get worse....
Mark's posting history over the past several years have been a textbook example of bipolar mental disorder.
When he's in his manic mode, he can go with the 2000+ word posts decrying all the Evils of the Liberals.
Then he medicates and will go several days in more measured and reasonable tones that are amenable to a casual fraternal cyber pub such as ours here.
It would seem that his latest manic cycle kicked in late Friday night and he should be rocking in full Finger Wagging CryMeARiver, TheLibsAreDestroyingMe because I'mTooWeakToMakeMyOwnWay mode until probably Sunday evening.
barman..... hands down for you bro, u made my day.... cant stop laughing
IMO it always matters whether or not someone practices what they preach, whatever that might be.
Say an expert gave a talk at a school explaining to kids why it's bad to do drugs, but then takes a break every 15 min. to toke up. Would kinda spoil the message, don't ya think?
In raising kids, if there is any inconsistency between what you say and what you do, the kids will emulate what you do and ignore what you say. In that case, you might as well just say blah blah blah.
See.... he is bipolar. I dont think you christians are supposed to make that kind of statements, specially before knowing someone, that doesnt seem very moral to me. You just proved us right whatever your name is..... And what I do in the comfort of my girlfriend's bed is none of your business
Though I haven't had any cocaine in just over 13 years now, I'm sure that my days of partying during the 80s and early90s couldn't hold a candle to the amount of drugs taken by forum friend MarkL as part of his regular medical regimen. Those bipolar pharms in combination with his heavy dosing of the drug alcohol can make for pretty savage combo which a guy like me is utterly incapable of handling.
Raise a glass to High Drug Tolerance Levels! They keep Mark alive and kicking.
Raise a glass to High Drug Tolerance Levels! They keep Mark alive and kicking.
Very true -- but your argument ("conservatives want to govern in your bedroom"...ooooo....spooky) is an intellectually dishonest strawman, but unfortunately par for the course for the loony left.
I don't care what you do in your private bedroom -- it's none of my business. I wish we could go back to the days when porn was something that was delivered in a brown paper bag.
But suppose you decided to have a parade masquerading your personal sexual fantasies in my city -- "Look at me, everyone! I want to be loved! I want to be accepted! My sexual perversions are the only thing that matter!" -- I damn well will make it my business and you damn well won't hear the end of it.
Same applies if you have the temerity to think society should bend to your 'feelings' by allowing you to marry your dog.
Elections matter -- vote wisely.
