Truer words were never spoken, especially from a Celtics fan. Big ups.
For a lot of us, it's easy to say Jordan was better than Kobe, because Kobe is still playing right now. Unless you're a Laker fan, it's hard to swallow the objective pill and concede possibly the greatest basketball player thus far is not playing on your team. I think a lot more people will appreciate Kobe after he retires and no longer poses a threat to non-Laker teams.
What a lot of people overlook is the fact that Jordan was an attention whore and a narcissist, because he retired so people can go, "Ah fuckin eh, Jordan is retiring. All good things must come to an end..." And then a year later he returns when the Bulls are struggling so people can have tears streaming down their faces and say, "Zomg our hero is back to save us!" Then he wins three more, and he retires... again, so people can say, "NOOOOOO! Jordan is retiring for good!! NOOOOOO!!! WE HAVE SEEN THE BEST PLAYER! WE HAVE BEEN PREVILEGED!!! NOOOOOO!!!" And then he returns again with the Wizards WTF??? So he can once again, prove that he's the best. Unfortunately on the third go-around, the talent level had risen, not to mention he had gained significant weight.
He's an obvious attention whore, who's mentally weak. He can't stay focused on the game. He thinks he's hot shit and leaves for the dramatics and returns for the theatrics, etc etc.
Kobe never did this, nor plans to. He says he'll play for as long as they'll have him. That's respect.
He's an obvious attention whore, who's mentally weak. He can't stay focused on the game. He thinks he's hot shit and leaves for the dramatics and returns for the theatrics, etc etc.
Kobe never did this, nor plans to. He says he'll play for as long as they'll have him. That's respect.
just the opposite. A monster of a talent coupled with insatiable appetite to win. Mentally a beast, no fear to fail. His record/stat(s) speaks for itself, and as non-centers go he is the best ever.
as for Kobe,as a previous poster mentioned, he has already failed in a NBA final, quite miserably actually : couldn't get it done Vs the Celtics. Where he stands? I'll reserve judgement when his career is done.
NBA final, game 7, if you had to choose, which player would you want on your team Kobe or Jordan?....
He didn't quit because his dad died.
Also, if you think that Jordan wasn't mentally a beast, you must be
in the .01% of basketball fans.
The supposed inside scoop is that Jordan was asked by Stern
to take a break from the game:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/131997-mjs-1st-retirement-was-it-a-secret-suspension
because the guy decides to retire means he's mentally weak? are you for real?
ON THE COURT (i.e, his place of work), he was indeed a mental beast. You don't accomplish what he did on talent alone.
bottom line is Jordan had an aura to him, when he arrived in your town there was a buzz. He WAS the man. And come crunch time, you want HIM on your team.
i can't say that for anyone else, can you? (non-centers)
have a nice evening
ON THE COURT (i.e, his place of work), he was indeed a mental beast. You don't accomplish what he did on talent alone.
bottom line is Jordan had an aura to him, when he arrived in your town there was a buzz. He WAS the man. And come crunch time, you want HIM on your team.
i can't say that for anyone else, can you? (non-centers)
have a nice evening
A conspiracy theory with dubious evidence is your rebuttal.
hno:And no, he wasn't a "mental beast" because if he was, he would've never retired because he lost interest in basketball. :lolBIG:
To compare it to boxing and MMA, a lot of boxers and fighters don't train as hard because they're not interested in their next opponent. Instead, they go clubbing and surfing, etc. That's when a lot of upsets take place (Matt Serra tapping out GSP). For a while, Josh Koscheck was calling GSP a "mental midget" and the "Tinman" as a reference to having no heart.
Why do you quit your job? Because you can't take it anymore. It's not because you got old and retired. No, what Jordan did was quit in his prime on both occasions.
And yes, Jordan had an aura about him, as does Kobe. I don't doubt that. However, he is an attention whore and narcissist for going out his way to "retire" and return, then retire again, repeat, etc. When somebody keeps doing that, it means they want people to go, "NOOOO WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU! NOOOO!" I mean, c'mon, how many times do you need to "retire" in the prime of your career?
hno:
"... but it is a lot closer than MJ people want to think."
I think not. Name one objective statistical category where Kobe
can be shown to be better than Jordan. Hmmm? Name just one.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13015
Recent opinions regarding Kobe's greatness have bordered on blasphemy. Can Kobe be considered one of the greatest NBA players of all-time? Yes. Is he in the top-10? Maybe. But, is he the greatest? No. Quite frankly, he's not close. It is actually irritating that so many people are trying to make the argument that Kobe is "just as good as Jordan." Or to hear Kobe-supporters claim "it is too close to call and you can't say that Jordan is definitely better than Kobe."
Of course you can. Here is the fact of the matter: Michael Jordan had a better career than Kobe Bryant. Period.
It's very simple and empirically evident.
This is the first issue we have to address. Yes, it is absolutely possible to prove, via corroborative facts, the assertion that Michael Jeffery Jordan was a far more accomplished basketball player than Kobe Bean Bryant.
That is no big knock against Kobe, it is a simple acknowledgment of the fact the he shares something in common with every other person in history who has ever picked up a basketball. It probably won't happen, but maybe someday Kobe catches MJ. Either way, to compare Kobe to Jordan right now is ludicrous.
It should also probably be noted that Jordan also had a far greater impact on the international ascendance of basketball, the economy at large, the marking of athletes, and the evolution of the sneaker industry in particular. But those are somewhat nebulous concepts that are difficult to prove, even if the majority of us know it be true. However, individual performance on the court is far easier to evaluate, so let's stick with that. Some will argue you can't compare great players to one another and declare one individual superior. I disagree. For starters, let's look at the numbers. Keep in mind, while statistics certainly aren't the sole determinants, they provide a helpful insight into the discussion. And when we look at the compiled evidence, Jordan is clearly far superior to Kobe in nearly every single statistical category. For this portion of the production, I am going to shut up and let the stats speak for themselves.
(For their careers, MJ played 1072 regular season games and Kobe has now played 948, which gives a comparable sample set):
● Jordan averaged five more points per game (30.1 PPG for MJ versus 25.1 for Kobe)
● Jordan averaged more rebounds (6.2 vs. 5.3)
● Jordan averaged more assists (5.3 vs. 4.6);
● Jordan shot a higher percentage from the field (49.7% vs. 45.5%)
● Jordan averaged more steals (2.3 vs. 1.5)
● Jordan averaged more blocks (0.8 vs. 0.6)
● Jordan averaged fewer turnovers (2.7 vs. 2.9)
You get the idea… From a statistical standpoint, Kobe can't compare.
******
ESPN's John Hollinger (PER) and Roland Beech of 82games.com (Roland Rating) are but two of the pioneers in this emerging field. We have learned that simple stats can be influenced by exterior factors such as rule changes, 'pace of play,' and are tempered by the era in which the individual played. (For instance, imagine if opposing defenders weren't allowed to hand-check MJ during his heyday!?)
Thus, some other meaningful indicators of excellence would be all-star nominations, DPOY awards, MVP's, etc. These honors are good tools to gauge a player relative to his contemporaries. And Kobe takes a backseat to Jordan in this department as well. Kobe has won one MVP award. #23 has five in his trophy case. In addition to nine All-Defense selections, Jordan also won the Defensive Player of the year Award in 1988. Kobe has never won a DPOY. MJ has 10 NBA scoring titles, Kobe has just two.
Still, winning is usually considered the definitive measuring stick. It is arguably the purest indicator of greatness. If you can beat everybody you play against, then common sense dictates you are superior during that game/series/year, etc.
And during the playoffs, when the pressure was ratcheted up, the disparity between Jordan and Bryant is even more pronounced.
● All of Jordan's stats spiked during the playoffs, as his scoring (NBA-record 33.4 PPG), rebounding (6.4), and dishing (5.7) all saw significant increases during postseason play. Kobe's numbers remained relatively stable (25 points/ 5.1 boards/ 4.7 dimes).
And Jordan's jaw-dropping playoff production leads us into the next topic - arguably the most important of them all: NBA Championships and the NBA Finals MVP awards handed out to the best player out-performing everyone else on the game's biggest stage.
Here, it is vitally important to denote whether a player was the primary reason for his team winning a title, an important sidekick, or just a bit role-player. For instance, Stacy King won three titles with the Bulls in the early 90's, but no one is going to claim he is a better player than Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley etc.
On the other hand, if a guy wins the NBA Finals MVP, that a good indicator that he was the best/ most important player on the best team in the NBA.
And this is the primary reason why Michael Jordan's resume is unparalleled in modern basketball history. (Comparisons amongst those who played previous to 1969 – the year the award was established - become more difficult in this particular respect.)
Jordan won the NBA Finals MVP trophy six times. His team advanced to the Finals six times. His team won every single time (no one can ever say they beat Jordan in June). And he was UNDOUBTEDLY the best player on the best team in the NBA each of those six seasons.
By comparison, Kobe just won his FIRST Finals MVP trophy. In the other three Lakers championships, Shaquille O'Neal took home the Finals MVP hardware. This is why so much was made of Kobe winning the title this season. Rightfully so, he finally got that Shaq-sized monkey off his back. It was incredibly important for his placement within the NBA's pantheon of all-time greats. I was always bewildered by those pundits ignorant enough to suggest Kobe didn't need to win a title sans-Shaq to cement his legacy. That is utter nonsense. Name another player that is considered an elite, all-time great that had never been the best player on a championship team. If you want to consider yourself one of the greatest players who ever lived, that is undoubtedly one of the perquisites. Thus, his most recent ring allows Kobe to enter the conversation, as it grants him admission into a distinguished club. Keep in mind - Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, and Timmy Duncan all won the Finals MVP award three times in their career, while Willis Reed, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, and Hakeem Olajuwon won the award twice. So, Kobe still has some catching up to do…
Personally, if we are ranking the best to ever play the game, I put Jordan at #1, with Bill Russell a close second. (The NBA Finals MVP award is now named after Russell, an 11-time champion and the greatest winner in NBA history. Little known fact – Russell's record in Game 7's was 10-0.) After those two – who are in a class by themselves - I'd lump Magic, Bird, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar into the next tier (I won't waste my time or yours trying to rate them against each other - you can assign them a number three thru five and I wouldn't squabble, as it's a topic for another day).
That brings us to the next layer of greatness, and Kobe's current likely landing place – alongside such superstars as Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Shaq, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, George Mikan, etc.
Nevertheless, the previous paragraph is loaded with subjective judgments and unsubstantiated conjecture. Admittedly, it is often difficult to compare similarly great players against one another. Often these opinions are highly debatable.
But this statement of fact is not: "Michael Jordan is better than Kobe Bryant." Period.
I agree that MJ is a better player, albeit slightly. But using career stats to prove MJ is better is crap. Kobe came into the league in 1996 when he was 18, right out of high school. Jordan came into the NBA at 21 after 3 years at UNC. And, MJ was the main guy on his team from the very first game. Kobe wasn't the main guy until he was 27 and the Lakers traded Shaq.
Why do you quit your job? Because you can't take it anymore. It's not because you got old and retired. No, what Jordan did was quit in his prime on both occasions.
And yes, Jordan had an aura about him, as does Kobe. I don't doubt that. However, he is an attention whore and narcissist for going out his way to "retire" and return, then retire again, repeat, etc. When somebody keeps doing that, it means they want people to go, "NOOOO WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU! NOOOO!" I mean, c'mon, how many times do you need to "retire" in the prime of your career?
Surely being a Laker homer you know that Phil Jackson wrote a whole
book about Kobe being a narcissistic quitter?
Phil said that Kobe had a history of sabotaging games since high school. Kobe decided he didn't want to play with Shaq any more, even though
Shaq got him his first three rings - so Kobe sabotaged the team.
Read the book, you'll find out what a whiny little bitch Kobe is, and
how he's been sabotaging teams and games since high school.
Oh yeah, and it's written by his own coach.
:lol:
Surely being a Laker homer you know that Phil Jackson wrote a whole
book about Kobe being a narcissistic quitter?
Phil said that Kobe had a history of sabotaging games since high school. Kobe decided he didn't want to play with Shaq any more, even though
Shaq got him his first three rings - so Kobe sabotaged the team.
Read the book, you'll find out what a whiny little bitch Kobe is, and
how he's been sabotaging teams and games since high school.
Oh yeah, and it's written by his own coach.
:lol:
I have the book dumbass. He never says that.
hno:Your credibility just continues to corrode. There's no bottom with you, clearly. :lolBIG:
