Winnepeg and Quebec left for completely different reasons. Nobody's questioning weather a few areas Of Ontario couldn't support a team now. But there a ton of politics that's gonna probably keep them from achieving that. 90% of Canada wants another team, but the 10% are holding all the right cards at the present time. By opening up his books, Bettman could have just possibly...[with all the current outcry especially] put himself in a position that's gonna work against him in this case. But when it's all said and done i think Bettman will win and an area of Ontario, starving for another team, will have to wait even longer. Unfortunately.
One thing I don't really understand is why Canadians in general are mad at Bettman for the salary cap and the work stoppage. THAT....was inevitable under ANY commissioner and prolly kept a couple more Canadian teams from leaving. Another thing I don't think is fair is them blaming Bettman for the teams that are struggling today. If our country's financial situation wasn't in the shitter, we wouldn't have 90% of the teams struggling today. This is a nice scapegoat for the cause. Which is bringing more hockey in Canada. When things were good, a few of the Canadian teams struggled. Winnepeg, Quebec, Edmonton, Calgary and even Vancouver attendancewise. With the help of Bettman, Calgary and Edmonton got back on their feet and seem to be doing well now. In fact i think ALL the Canadian teams are doing well. I know some, or a lot of it, has to do with the Canadian dollar surging like it did. But I don't know enough about that aspect of things to understand a lot of it. I know the Canadian dollar is going back down and things arn't all rosey like they once were there. But the economy being down here has really hurt our borderline teams. I also know if the management in place in Phoenix, from top to bottom, [owner..all the way down to their coach], did a better job, they wouldn't be in this situation today either. You can't NOT make the playoffs that many years in their history and still survive. Especially down there in the desert. Playoff money is where teams recoup a lot of their losses. On that note, Edmonton still can't be a financially healthy franchise. Kevin Lowe obviously has some picture of some people in come very compromising positions for him to still be running that franchise. He wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons in Detroit with those results. He didn't do well in his position and he just promoted himself to team president. Fixed that little problem. How he's running ANY program still, I'll never know.
Group says it has $900M lined up to add second team in Toronto
June 5, 2009
CBSSports.com wire reports
TORONTO -- A Toronto-based group has come forward with a proposal to launch a second NHL franchise in the city in time for the 2012-13 season.
The Toronto Legacy Group suggested during a news conference on Friday that about $900 million in financing is already in place for the proposed expansion team, which would play in the same city as the Toronto Maple Leafs, an original NHL franchise.
The team would be known as the Toronto Legacy and play out of a 30,000-seat arena proposed for Downsview Park.
The group led by Andrew Lopez has proposed that 25 percent of its annual net profits would be divided among charitable foundations and nonprofit organizations.
Lopez says his group is not affiliated with Blackberry billionaire Jim Balsillie, who is looking to relocate the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton, Ontario.
Copyright 2009 by STATS LLC and The Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and The Associated Press is strictly prohibited.
June 5, 2009
CBSSports.com wire reports
TORONTO -- A Toronto-based group has come forward with a proposal to launch a second NHL franchise in the city in time for the 2012-13 season.
The Toronto Legacy Group suggested during a news conference on Friday that about $900 million in financing is already in place for the proposed expansion team, which would play in the same city as the Toronto Maple Leafs, an original NHL franchise.
The team would be known as the Toronto Legacy and play out of a 30,000-seat arena proposed for Downsview Park.
The group led by Andrew Lopez has proposed that 25 percent of its annual net profits would be divided among charitable foundations and nonprofit organizations.
Lopez says his group is not affiliated with Blackberry billionaire Jim Balsillie, who is looking to relocate the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton, Ontario.
Copyright 2009 by STATS LLC and The Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and The Associated Press is strictly prohibited.
X-files, those owners love him. He's not going ANYWHERE. He implemented the salary cap and put a stop to 50% of their losses. And I don't know this for a fact but they prolly need a 2/3's vote to remove him. You better wish some poor health on him as that's prolly the quickest way he'd ever leave. And he's got some grief right now, but once he settles this he won't have to deal much with Canada like he has and he can stay in his comfy digs in NYC forever.
BUSHAYS ORIGINAL ARTICLE
:
Things to Consider Before Moving a 2nd Team to Toronto
Photo by: Horge
This summer is shaping up to be pretty good if you’re into all facets of hockey news. We have the Phoenix Coyotes debacle, rumors swirling around the Florida Panthers, a possible return of puck to Winnipeg, a sick corps of players to consider in the entry draft and an interesting list of free agents to tend to before the month of July.
Oh, and this business of putting a 2nd NHL team is Toronto is gaining momentum as well.
Am I the only person that thinks this is one of the most absurd ideas associated with hockey and the NHL in recent years? 2 professional hockey teams in 1 city? Seriously? Let’s consider some things before we pull the trigger on this one, gentleman.
First and foremost, were not just talking about any city and any NHL franchise here. We’re talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs. THE LEAFS. 90+ years of tradition for a team that is a cornerstone in the sport of hockey. Their fans are some of the best in the hockey world with never-ending loyalty and devotion to their team. Through thick and thin; triumph and torment; you will never see a Leaf fan denounce their club.
Logo by: Toronto LegacyNow, do parties interested in putting a 2nd team in Toronto really believe that there will be support for another team within the city? Can you legitimately ask a lifelong Toronto Maple Leaf fan to consider rooting for another team, especially one within their own hometown? My immediate answer is no! Absolutely not! These fans are lifers, plain and simple.
I have heard arguments that fans not fortunate enough to obtain season tickets for the club will look to this new team as an outlet. Listen. Fans not lucky enough to see the Maple Leafs play live will enjoy the game at a local pub or in the comfort of their own home. Essentially, this argument would make the 2nd Toronto franchise a fall back for people who can’t enjoy the benefits of seeing the Maple Leafs live. If that’s the case, it sounds like a 2nd Toronto team would be nothing more than bandwagon and casual fans looking for their hockey fix on nights when they can’t enjoy their favorite club. Not a very stable fan base if you ask me.
Furthermore, where does this leave the Toronto Marlies? The AHL struggles to fill seats night in and night out in most cities and Toronto is no exception. In the 2008-2009 AHL season, Toronto finished 4th worst in the league in league in average attendance clocking in at just a shade under 4,000 people per game. If a 2nd NHL team comes to Toronto, you can kiss the Marlies goodbye. Attendance would surely plummet and scheduling would become of the utmost difficulty. Imagine having the Leafs, Legacy (yeah, in case you didn’t catch it through the media hype, the proposed name for the new franchise in Toronto would be the Legacy) and Marlies all in town on the same night? Who suffers the most in that picture?
Logo by: 3604069 (Yousuf Karsh)Let’s talk about location. The proposed location of the new 30,000 seat arena for the Legacy is in Downsview Park, a mere 19 kilometers (about 12 miles) from the Air Canada Centre. It’s also about 19 kilometers from the Ricoh Coliseum, where the Marlies play. The proximity of the teams just doesn’t make sense. What do you do with 2 major event arenas in the off-season? Is it really a money maker, or will a 2nd arena essentially be a money pit? You can only put so many concerts and circuses in these arenas at a time.
I can just hear the arguments now: “But the Rangers, Islanders and Devils are all close in proximity to one another, and they are doing just fine.” True, but they are completely different fans in completely different areas. Go ahead, call someone from Long Island from New York city or vice versa. You’ll get punched right in the face. They may be close in proximity, but they are distinctly different situations with a distinctly different following. There isn’t that feeling in Toronto. Something is telling me that Leafs fans aren’t torn between supporting the team there now and a perspective team that could be there within the next 5 years. There is no rivaly between Leafs fans, so why create one? Their rivalries lay with Buffalo, Montreal and Ottawa.
Not for nothing, but it’s better to get these things out in the open before this whole project really starts to pick up speed. A second team in Toronto has #FAIL written all over it. Save yourself the time and money and invest elsewhere.
Toronto Legacy
schrembs@saucerpass.com
twitter: @saucerpass
:
Things to Consider Before Moving a 2nd Team to Toronto
Photo by: Horge
This summer is shaping up to be pretty good if you’re into all facets of hockey news. We have the Phoenix Coyotes debacle, rumors swirling around the Florida Panthers, a possible return of puck to Winnipeg, a sick corps of players to consider in the entry draft and an interesting list of free agents to tend to before the month of July.
Oh, and this business of putting a 2nd NHL team is Toronto is gaining momentum as well.
Am I the only person that thinks this is one of the most absurd ideas associated with hockey and the NHL in recent years? 2 professional hockey teams in 1 city? Seriously? Let’s consider some things before we pull the trigger on this one, gentleman.
First and foremost, were not just talking about any city and any NHL franchise here. We’re talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs. THE LEAFS. 90+ years of tradition for a team that is a cornerstone in the sport of hockey. Their fans are some of the best in the hockey world with never-ending loyalty and devotion to their team. Through thick and thin; triumph and torment; you will never see a Leaf fan denounce their club.
Logo by: Toronto LegacyNow, do parties interested in putting a 2nd team in Toronto really believe that there will be support for another team within the city? Can you legitimately ask a lifelong Toronto Maple Leaf fan to consider rooting for another team, especially one within their own hometown? My immediate answer is no! Absolutely not! These fans are lifers, plain and simple.
I have heard arguments that fans not fortunate enough to obtain season tickets for the club will look to this new team as an outlet. Listen. Fans not lucky enough to see the Maple Leafs play live will enjoy the game at a local pub or in the comfort of their own home. Essentially, this argument would make the 2nd Toronto franchise a fall back for people who can’t enjoy the benefits of seeing the Maple Leafs live. If that’s the case, it sounds like a 2nd Toronto team would be nothing more than bandwagon and casual fans looking for their hockey fix on nights when they can’t enjoy their favorite club. Not a very stable fan base if you ask me.
Furthermore, where does this leave the Toronto Marlies? The AHL struggles to fill seats night in and night out in most cities and Toronto is no exception. In the 2008-2009 AHL season, Toronto finished 4th worst in the league in league in average attendance clocking in at just a shade under 4,000 people per game. If a 2nd NHL team comes to Toronto, you can kiss the Marlies goodbye. Attendance would surely plummet and scheduling would become of the utmost difficulty. Imagine having the Leafs, Legacy (yeah, in case you didn’t catch it through the media hype, the proposed name for the new franchise in Toronto would be the Legacy) and Marlies all in town on the same night? Who suffers the most in that picture?
Logo by: 3604069 (Yousuf Karsh)Let’s talk about location. The proposed location of the new 30,000 seat arena for the Legacy is in Downsview Park, a mere 19 kilometers (about 12 miles) from the Air Canada Centre. It’s also about 19 kilometers from the Ricoh Coliseum, where the Marlies play. The proximity of the teams just doesn’t make sense. What do you do with 2 major event arenas in the off-season? Is it really a money maker, or will a 2nd arena essentially be a money pit? You can only put so many concerts and circuses in these arenas at a time.
I can just hear the arguments now: “But the Rangers, Islanders and Devils are all close in proximity to one another, and they are doing just fine.” True, but they are completely different fans in completely different areas. Go ahead, call someone from Long Island from New York city or vice versa. You’ll get punched right in the face. They may be close in proximity, but they are distinctly different situations with a distinctly different following. There isn’t that feeling in Toronto. Something is telling me that Leafs fans aren’t torn between supporting the team there now and a perspective team that could be there within the next 5 years. There is no rivaly between Leafs fans, so why create one? Their rivalries lay with Buffalo, Montreal and Ottawa.
Not for nothing, but it’s better to get these things out in the open before this whole project really starts to pick up speed. A second team in Toronto has #FAIL written all over it. Save yourself the time and money and invest elsewhere.
Toronto Legacy
schrembs@saucerpass.com
twitter: @saucerpass
Savant, i'm just a guy posting a lot of opinions here in this forum but, I think this team has less a chance of success than Basillie's group. And by a longshot. What makes these guys think the league is even thinking about expansion????? Besides, Kansas City has a brand new arena all ready to go and Vegas has been the first city mentioned for years if they expanded. They could put up an arena in 4-6 months out there. And they've[ Jerry Bruckenmeiers[sp] got that much money and more to back a team there. Hey, I think another team in Ontario would be GREAT. Honest I do. But unfortunately, unless they find some loopholes in Bettmans paperwork, it's not gonna happen. Especially since the Leafs [and the Sabres] would be so adamantly against it. I read somewhere where an exhibition game already took place years ago, not sure of the venue.....and they paid the Leafs $150G just to allow the game to take place. So a president has already been established.
Oh I'm a huge Bowman fan and don't consider him a traitor. He's getting close to 80 I think, and wanted to spend some time with his son, who's sick with cancer. And I don't believe Illitch or any of the RW brass feel that way either. I think that's a bad rap you just game him. To me, next to Jacques Demers, no one was more important to the RW success than Scotty. If we can't handle things from here on out with him out of the picture, that'd be pretty sad.
And here's Buffalo's interest in the matter.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/06/03/sp-hamilton-sabres.html?ref=ff-twit
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/06/03/sp-hamilton-sabres.html?ref=ff-twit
Greater Toronto has 5.5 Million people and is one of the fastest growing cities in N.A.
It IS the most hockey crazy town. Pucks rule.
Two teams is definately viable but IMHO the location is crucial.
Some distance to "split the town" to create some rivalry.
Put teams were people live for hockey, not where you hope they will aquire an interest.
It IS the most hockey crazy town. Pucks rule.
Two teams is definately viable but IMHO the location is crucial.
Some distance to "split the town" to create some rivalry.
Put teams were people live for hockey, not where you hope they will aquire an interest.
Putting a team in Hamilton would be a huge hit for the Buffalo Sabres
Buffalo gets a lot of canadian fans from the Niagara Region. People from Niagara Falls, ST Catharines, Welland, Stoney Creek, Thorld...They support the Sabres and attend games
These people would all become Hamilton fans...and attend hamilton games if the ticket prices are the same
It would hurt the sabres a little bit for sure
You do need population.
Winnipeg and Quebec are piss ant towns from a population standpoint.
Both at about 700,000 by todays census. Back then.....................??
Not viable at any time.
Demographics are very important when allocating a team.
HogTown is viable, if done right.
