What do you guys think about how this prop was graded?

[slapshot]

You must be kidding? A play is not defined by how many seconds tick off the play clock, it's defined as snapping the ball and doing something.

They did do something they just took to long

Drive chart will show 1st play-5 yards replay 1st down

In this case the play is over when the clock runs out

 

[Soriano12]

Drive chart will show 1st play-5 yards replay 1st down

In this case the play is over when the clock runs out

Sorry, but that's just not true. The official play by play by NFL.com explicitly states "No Play":

• 1-10-NYG 19(3:26) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NYG-10-E.Manning, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 19 - No Play.

 

[slapshot]

Sorry, but that's just not true. The official play by play by NFL.com explicitly states "No Play":

• 1-10-NYG 19(3:26) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NYG-10-E.Manning, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 19 - No Play.

Yeah that is listed first

Yeah it will say no play cause it's still first down

When you start the play clock the play ends when the official blows the play dead which they did result delay of game

 

[slapshot]

Any penalty that doesn't result in lose of down is listed as no play

or yardage tacked on

Holding 1-20 no play

 

[HarryCaray]

Any penalty that doesn't result in lose of down is listed as no play

or yardage tacked on

Holding 1-20 no play

The NFL themselves EXPLICITLY say "no play", and you're gonna argue that it counts as a play. They literally make it a point to put the extra words there just so it's clear that this was not a play.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[HarryCaray]

• 1-10-NYG 19(3:26) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NYG-10-E.Manning, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 19 - No Play.

It just does not get more clear than this.

Did you show them this Illini?

 

[slapshot]

The NFL themselves EXPLICITLY say "no play", and you're gonna argue that it counts as a play. They literally make it a point to put the extra words there just so it's clear that this was not a play.

You can't make this stuff up.

But you can make some stuff up so here goes

Cutler gets sacked for -2 yards but thier is holding on the [play] and Cutler breaks his leg

Now since the NFL will list it as holding-10 yards NO PLAY and nobody gets credit for a sack is Cutler leg still broke and if it is how did he do it?

 

[CHOPTALK]

But you can make some stuff up so here goes

Cutler gets sacked for -2 yards but thier is holding on the [play] and Cutler breaks his leg

Now since the NFL will list it as holding-10 yards NO PLAY and nobody gets credit for a sack is Cutler leg still broke and if it is how did he do it?

Thats an awful analogy.

It does not require a play for someone to break a leg.

 

[slapshot]

Thats an awful analogy.

It does not require a play for someone to break a leg.

You maybe right

But it doesn't require the ball to be snapped either

 

[SECplayer]

But you can make some stuff up so here goes

Cutler gets sacked for -2 yards but thier is holding on the [play] and Cutler breaks his leg

Now since the NFL will list it as holding-10 yards NO PLAY and nobody gets credit for a sack is Cutler leg still broke and if it is how did he do it?

But if a hold occurs during the play, the defense would get the opportunity to decline the penalty and take the result of the play.

The same opportunity is not present on a pre-snap penalty (delay of game, false start, etc) because the ball is never snapped.

 

[slapshot]

But if a hold occurs during the play, the defense would get the opportunity to decline the penalty and take the result of the play.

The same opportunity is not present on a pre-snap penalty (delay of game, false start, etc) because the ball is never snapped.

Right if you are running a illegal play the ref will blow the play dead and you can't refuse the penalty on either side of the ball and since the down stays the same and no stats the list it no play but it was a play

 

[SECplayer]

Right if you are running a illegal play the ref will blow the play dead and you can't refuse the penalty on either side of the ball and since the down stays the same and no stats the list it no play but it was a play

Agree. We are on same page there. Especially the part where you say "it is listed as no play BUT it was a play."

My question then is whether a delay of game or something similar in which the ball is never snapped constitutes a play? I'm just not certain it does.

 

[slapshot]

Agree. We are on same page there. Especially the part where you say "it is listed as no play BUT it was a play."

My question then is whether a delay of game or something similar in which the ball is never snapped constitutes a play? I'm just not certain it does.

I see it as if you didn't mess up running the play their wouldn't have been a penalty pre snap

Basically once the play clock is stated the play is on all the motion of the players is part of the play to see the defense react so really the play starts well before the ball is snapped

 

[HarryCaray]

I see it as if you didn't mess up running the play their wouldn't have been a penalty pre snap

Basically once the play clock is stated the play is on all the motion of the players is part of the play to see the defense react so really the play starts well before the ball is snapped

OK so the Bears have the ball 1st and 10 on the 20. False start penalty makes it 1st and 15. Then Cutler throws an 85 yard bomb for a TD.

Let's say somehow the Bears never get the ball back.

What would you say their average yards per play was? 85? Or 40 ([-5] + 85 / 2)?

 

[slapshot]

OK so the Bears have the ball 1st and 10 on the 20. False start penalty makes it 1st and 15. Then Cutler throws an 85 yard bomb for a TD.

Let's say somehow the Bears never get the ball back.

What would you say their average yards per play was? 85? Or 40 ([-5] + 85 / 2)?

Not good at algebra

But since stats only count on completed plays not penalty plays that are stop at time of infraction i would guess 85 yards per play since thats the only legal play they ran

But the real surprise is Cutler plays better with a broken leg

 

[slapshot]

So all coaches and players will tell you the formation and shifts and motion are all vital to the play success and are basically when the play starts they would be wrong

Got it

 

[HarryCaray]

Not good at algebra

But since stats only count on completed plays not penalty plays that are stop at time of infraction i would guess 85 yards per play since thats the only legal play they ran

But the real surprise is Cutler plays better with a broken leg

OK so if it's 85 yards per play, you're acknowledging that the sequence contains only one play...

 

[slapshot]

OK so if it's 85 yards per play, you're acknowledging that the sequence contains only one play...

Nope it's 2 plays 1 down

 

[Illini]

Bookmaker refunded the ticket. Because of this, they are going to make clear rules on their site. But I guess going forward, they want to keep grading it the same way. So the bet will be on the first action and not the play itself. A penalty, even before the snap, means that any other outcome wins.

 

[slapshot]

That's cool

It's easy to see it either way