What America needs are stricter heroin control laws.

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This isn't an answer to my question. Your response reads as if your responding to a post that said "no new gun laws, nothing can be done". My post wasn't an argument for, or against gun laws. It was a simple question. I'd like to know specifically what you think should be done to stop what happened in Oregon from happening again. That's not an unfair question.

Make it tougher for one person to own so many guns. This guy wacky mom had 14 guns bought legally....restrict amount of guns, restrict ammunition.

Living in a free society we can't stop it from happening but we can at least lessen the damage by restricting some things.
 

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Mother of Oregon shooting victim tells Americans they must be armed

gun-free-zone-AP-640x480.jpg


On October 1 Cheyenne Fitzgerald was shot in the back during the attack at Umpqua Community College, and her mother says the attack is a reminder that Americans must be armed for self-defense.


During a segment aired by NBC Nightly News on October 4, Fitzgerald’s mother–Bonnie Schaan–said her daughter should have been armed and she stressed that Americans must arm themselves so they are able to defend their lives if such a heinous attack befalls them.

Schaan said, “America we need to pack guns–if this is what it’s coming to–to have to protect ourselves.” And Schaan was not alone in her views. Rather, numerous Sunday sermons in Roseberg, Oregon, focused “God and guns.”

On October 2 Breitbart New reported that Roseberg residents were rallying to the Second Amendment in the wake of the attack. One resident–disabled Marine Casey Runyan–said he carries a Glock handgun “everywhere he goes.” He added, “All my friends agree with me. That’s the only kind of friends I have.” Another resident criticized the gun-free policies at UCC, claiming such policies open the door to cowardly attackers.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...n-shooting-victim-tells-americans-must-armed/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

America has a fevah and the only prescription is less leftism and more rugged individualism.

God Bless Cheyenne Fitzgerald!

:aktion033
 

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Yeah, and how many victim parents come out for stricter gun laws?

seriously Joe.....you are on the losing side of every game and every issue.
 
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Make it tougher for one person to own so many guns. This guy wacky mom had 14 guns bought legally....restrict amount of guns, restrict ammunition.

Living in a free society we can't stop it from happening but we can at least lessen the damage by restricting some things.

What do you restrict the guns and ammo to? I believe he used 4 guns. Would you allow people to have 4?
 

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What do you restrict the guns and ammo to? I believe he used 4 guns. Would you allow people to have 4?

Well god dang it then, make it 3 guns MAX - problem solved.

This way the "Do something!" crowd can pat themselves on the back....just like the statist idiot who cooked up this idea:

article-2297040-18D73149000005DC-82_306x255.jpg
 

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What do you restrict the guns and ammo to? I believe he used 4 guns. Would you allow people to have 4?

I'd say more like 2 guns.....restrict ammo. Mandatory 20 years for owning a killing machine that can kill 20 people in seconds. How about a better tracking system....register guns yearly like we have to do for car inspections. A lot of things can be done.

guys like Joe consider people collateral damage when it comes to possibly changing a document written before street lights. People like him, without a family or loved ones, don't grasp the pain and horror these victims families live with. To say we can't do anything is silly. At least try something....unfortunately the gun lobby is too strong and controls too many elected officials.
 
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Well god dang it then, make it 3 guns MAX - problem solved.

This way the "Do something!" crowd can pat themselves on the back....just like the statist idiot who cooked up this idea:

article-2297040-18D73149000005DC-82_306x255.jpg

Ya, I mean the point I'm getting at is that the infamous "gun laws" (it seems impossible to get an actual idea of what these gun laws are from the people who tout them) is just treating symptoms. It's easy to say ban guns and we'll stop these senseless killings. It's much more difficult to try to find and treat the cause of gun violence, the reasons why people see killing people as a way to be heard.
 

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Yeah but people who are high on opiates do get behind the wheel and kill innocent people. I'm not saying I agree with Dave or this thread but don't act like people on drugs only harm themselves.

As someone with a lot of personal experience working w current and former heroin users, I can confidently state that very few have any interest in driving an automobile while nodding.
 

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Ya, I mean the point I'm getting at is that the infamous "gun laws" (it seems impossible to get an actual idea of what these gun laws are from the people who tout them) is just treating symptoms. It's easy to say ban guns and we'll stop gun violence. It's much more difficult to try to find and treat the cause of gun violence, the reasons why people see killing people as a way to be heard.

It's not that difficult once you step back from all the political 'noise' and look at how society got here. So much of the destruction we see in the headlines never used to happen, not just with guns. The inconvenient truth is that sociopathetic deeds like this shooting are carried out by people who reflect the culture of devaluation brought to you by modern liberalism.

So now the same destructive knee-jerk "do something!" crowd who have wreaked so much havoc across the cultural spectrum are going to target and punish rational Americans who still understand and cherish the Bill of Rights?

I don't think so.

The problem with gun control is that second word: CONTROL

It's not about "saving lives." If lives really mattered, Planned Parenthood would have been mothballed long ago. If lives mattered, the nightly "mass shootings" in Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, and every other Democrat-run ghetto shit hole with "gun control" would be openly acknowledged and confronted.

So it's not about "saving lives" or even about gun control, it's about PEOPLE CONTROL. PERIOD.

Liberals see themselves as perpetual victims, and when people are trained to be victims, they see their "right" to take from others as both fair and commendable. Gun control is purely and simply a political tool to achieve the disarmament of that portion of the populace that will never surrender to Marxists and fascists.

In the 1960s we called these radicals commie pinkos because that is EXACTLY what they are.

"We are 5 days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America!"

"For the first time in my life, I'm proud of my country!"


Yeah, the GOP have gone "too far right" :neenee:

The fact is, the dinocraps (as JDeuce calls them) haven't been sane since George McGovern.
 
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As someone with a lot of personal experience working w current and former heroin users, I can confidently state that very few have any interest in driving an automobile while nodding.

Might be true, but when I said opiates I was including Vicodin, Hydrocodone, Oxycontin, Percoset, etc..
 

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What Dave nicely illustrates is that any notion of legally Prohibiting firearms is as dubious and fruitless as is the notion of Prohibition for drugs

Given that all drug and all gun transactions take place between consenting adults, the 4th Amendment makes it essentially impossible to 'control' how firearms an adult American can possess

The product can be easily transacted in private if needed and once the gun(s) are on private property, law enforcement is 99% helpless to 'enforce' any limits that empty headed policymakers deem as maximum
 

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What Dave nicely illustrates is that any notion of legally Prohibiting firearms is as dubious and fruitless as is the notion of Prohibition for drugs

Given that all drug and all gun transactions take place between consenting adults, the 4th Amendment makes it essentially impossible to 'control' how firearms an adult American can possess

The product can be easily transacted in private if needed and once the gun(s) are on private property, law enforcement is 99% helpless to 'enforce' any limits that empty headed policymakers deem as maximum

Well said.

Gun control works about as well as alcohol Prohibition (another ingenious 'Progressive' concoction)

736364_329246623855451_1668067288_o.jpg
 

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The more barriers we put up for drugs, just makes less competition and higher profits for the very few who are able to distribute. The profits are so high that they will resort to whatever violence is necessary to protect their business. The number of accidental overdoses represent a very small fraction of the total number of deaths caused by the illegal drug trade.
 

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It has always been a challenging concept, but even moreso in the 21st century, gun possession in the USA cannot be 'controlled'.

Public sales are the only venue where govt can exercise notable enforcement.

But all other sales and possession, especially in very small units of one to two weapons can easily be handled without police being able to know.

The 4th amendment provides virtual blanket protection for otherwise law-abiding citizens to buy, sell and possess as many weapons as they wish and law enforcement has no legal way to 'track' any of it.

Good deal. The more the government stays out of private business transactions, the better
 

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The more barriers we put up for drugs, just makes less competition and higher profits for the very few who are able to distribute. The profits are so high that they will resort to whatever violence is necessary to protect their business. The number of accidental overdoses represent a very small fraction of the total number of deaths caused by the illegal drug trade.

Correct. Lethal overdoses from heroin ingestion are extremely rare when the product is pure and the dosage is administered correctly.

There are numerous opiate drugs routinely dispensed in legal medical settings which are far more powerful than heroin and deaths are virtually nil.

In the countries which permit legal sites for medical personnel to dispense heroin in controlled doses, lethal responses are literally in the single digits annually
 

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There are numerous opiate drugs routinely dispensed in legal medical settings

Steve you know my elbow story but just to refresh - In 1983 I was hit by a drunk driver and my left elbow was destroyed. I lived in the same area I live now (moved twice since but I'm back), but back then the hospital was small and understaffed as this area was considered rural. It isn't anymore. Today the hospital is modern and top-notch.

So anyway 32 years ago a nervous young non-board certified ER resident got first crack at my shattered arm. He did the best he could, but flash-forward 32 years later my arm is still destroyed.

So now here we are in 2015 mid summer and I'm going through nosebleeds 1-3, 3 days apart. All same hospital. On the third trip to the ER I get the same doc as 32 years ago, now a confident experienced fellow who stayed because he loves emergency medicine. So I tell him of our history, and what is happening now. We share a few laughs while I bleed into a bucket and I tell him what the first two er doctors did and how unpleasant the experiences were, before and after packing.

So he says, "Well Scott, the bad news is I'm definitely going to have to pack your nose and it's going to remain packed until Wednesday (It's midnight Monday). The other bad news is your ENT will probably agree with your thoughts that the bleeding is posterior and you will require surgery. The good news is I'm going to pack your nose in a slightly different way that will be very comfortable, at least for the first few hours." "How ya gonna do that?" "Cocaine!"

All I can say is this, for the next 3 hours I was "onstage." I had my mom (she drove me because she wouldn't leave my house after the second nose bleed), my best friend who showed up at 3am, a resident from Hawaii who was born in the same hospital as Obama (not in Kenya) and several nurses pissing themselves laughing until 5AM. Finally the doc returns and I say, "When are you gonna pack my nose?" He says, "I already packed it, right after I gave you the cocaine. I'm filling out your discharge instructions now."

I think the doc and I are even now. It wasn't that I could breathe. I couldn't, but I didn't care!
 

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Steve you know my elbow story but just to refresh - In 1983 I was hit by a drunk driver and my left elbow was destroyed. I lived in the same area I live now (moved twice since but I'm back), but back then the hospital was small and understaffed as this area was considered rural. It isn't anymore. Today the hospital is modern and top-notch.

So anyway 32 years ago a nervous young non-board certified ER resident got first crack at my shattered arm. He did the best he could, but flash-forward 32 years later my arm is still destroyed.

So now here we are in 2015 mid summer and I'm going through nosebleeds 1-3, 3 days apart. All same hospital. On the third trip to the ER I get the same doc as 32 years ago, now a confident experienced fellow who stayed because he loves emergency medicine. So I tell him of our history, and what is happening now. We share a few laughs while I bleed into a bucket and I tell him what the first two er doctors did and how unpleasant the experiences were, before and after packing.

So he says, "Well Scott, the bad news is I'm definitely going to have to pack your nose and it's going to remain packed until Wednesday (It's midnight Monday). The other bad news is your ENT will probably agree with your thoughts that the bleeding is posterior and you will require surgery. The good news is I'm going to pack your nose in a slightly different way that will be very comfortable, at least for the first few hours." "How ya gonna do that?" "Cocaine!"

All I can say is this, for the next 3 hours I was "onstage." I had my mom (she drove me because she wouldn't leave my house after the second nose bleed), my best friend who showed up at 3am, a resident from Hawaii who was born in the same hospital as Obama (not in Kenya) and several nurses pissing themselves laughing until 5AM. Finally the doc returns and I say, "When are you gonna pack my nose?" He says, "I already packed it, right after I gave you the cocaine. I'm filling out your discharge instructions now."

I think the doc and I are even now. It wasn't that I could breathe. I couldn't, but I didn't care!


in case anyone is wondering why modern medicine has use for cocaine?

it's used in Otolaryngology . It's a unique local anaesthetic in that it vasoconstricts . This is VERY useful when you need to minimize bleeding whilst visualizing an area . ALL other local anaesthetics vasodilate-- not good.

in addition, as Scott has described it has useful euphoric effects :)


of course, sadly, no other field in medicine is more at risk to job-related addiction than those in anaethesia;

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=387733

http://www.aana.com/newsandjournal/Documents/opioidabuse-0412-p120-128.pdf

https://www.thefix.com/content/anesthesiologists-addiction-risk-high9656
 

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^^^I think when ER was on TV there was an episode where 2 residents would sneak away to fool around in a janitor's closet across the hall from where an anesthesiologist was stealing meds, which led to all of them getting caught.
 

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and reportedly the anesthesiologist was furious, proclaiming............... 'that's my spot!!!!! Now look what you've done!!'
 

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