Vegas rules regarding the fight?

[JOddessa]

To not pay the MAB by Decision is criminal.

The error was spotted within 30 minutes or so of the announcement. MAB was the official winner. If people eran to the windows and cashed the DRAW tickets, the books just need to eat it and pay the rightfull winners. How can anyone remotely argue otherwise. MAB won the fight.
Its another black eye for boxing, but Sportsbooks should be paying Mab by decision. Thats what the result of the bout was, nothing else. If this bout were not on TV, no one would have even known the difference.
It happened in 2003 in a championship bout that was telivised throughtout Europe. Injin Chi was called the winner in ring over Michael Broide in a Championship bout and then 30 minutes later the bout was declared a draw bc of an adding error. Draw was paid, even at the Britsih books. It just so happens that this bout was on HBO. Happened on a UFC Undercard before as well in Atlantic City. Wrong winner was announced and then a bout later it was corrected.
Players need to suck it up and look at it as a really long instant replay. Juarez lost the fight.

 

[JOddessa]

http://www.fightnews.com/watt108.htm

This is also a crime..............look at this official scorecard.

 

[valdosta]

...

To not pay the MAB by Decision is criminal.

The error was spotted within 30 minutes or so of the announcement. MAB was the official winner. If people ran to the windows and cashed the DRAW tickets, the books just need to eat it and pay the rightfull winners. How can anyone remotely argue otherwise. MAB won the fight.
Players need to suck it up and look at it as a really long instant replay. Juarez lost the fight.

It really shouldn't be so complicated, I agree with you 100%.Whether the cards were added wrong or not it was fixed within a reasonable amount of time and MAB got the decision.

 

[Doug]

How damn hard is it check and triple check a few scorecards on this, have 3 sober guys with calculators add it up 10 times until they are sure, it's easy math, hell Sherman could do it.

An error like this should happen like maybe once in 100 years, if that !

It just PROVES boxing is rigged !

 

[ChuckSims]

Doug, these crooks do not put up a legitimate 3-way line. For example: BoDog uses a crooked 3-way line. They post a pk'em fight -115 both ways and then they put up a draw line that ranges from 12-1 to 20-1.

If the draw occurs, all bets that were on decision, KO, and round predictions LOSE! Thats where the book cleans up if a draw occurs. To then keep ALL the money bet on each fighter is criminal!!

 

[PokerKingJim]

Pinnacle graded it as a win for Barrera.

An absolute disgrace this whoel thing is for boxing. Like anybody is dumb enough to believe that they can't add up the score cards. What a joke

 

[Doug]

Doug, these crooks do not put up a legitimate 3-way line. For example: BoDog uses a crooked 3-way line. They post a pk'em fight -115 both ways and then they put up a draw line that ranges from 12-1 to 20-1.

If the draw occurs, all bets that were on decision, KO, and round predictions LOSE! Thats where the book cleans up if a draw occurs. To then keep ALL the money bet on each fighter is criminal!!

I lack the expertise to analyze this, not my best area. I'll take a stab... seems like a bunch of props... fighter A by KO doesn't happen, so it loses, fair enough !

Lines can be made ( 3-way) that are fair to the punter ( low theoretical hold), but I doubt any 3 way line has a low hold ( use calculator on Pinny site).

I honestly don't know much about boxing, but I'll try and parlay stuff like fighter A by knockout with under 11.5 rounds, I don't think I ever got one of those related parlays in on boxing.

I lack the knowledge to bet boxing, but know enough to know what's correlated, and shouldn't be allowed. I don't trust the results, bet it small maybe once a year, it's a garbage sport to me, worse than WNBA to bet.

I'll watch it though, just not a betting sport for me, I can't do every sport. I've scalped boxing before, but that's not betting ! Therefore I'm aware of 3-way lines.

 

[GreenDoberman]

Ok, here's my take for those that were interested.

I get to work and see that we had graded it as a draw last night. We always check multiple sources before grading fights and other stuff that doesn't come across the wire before posting it.

I immediately check our rules for boxing. It clearly states that 1) a fight where the first round bell rings is considered action (no question in this case), and 2) Results are considered official on the day of the bout (I'm paraphrasing here), and 3) We do not recognize protests or overturned decisions.

I call my supervisors in to decide what to do. We immediately lock out all tickets from cashing so we can make what we feel is the right decision first. Unfortunately, some bettors have cashed a few tickets the night before and early in the morning (or fortunate for those who would have lost). The "gray area" of an "overturned decision" in our rules is discussed. It is a consensus that this is a scoring error and not an overturned decision.

I then was curious as to what other books had done. I called a book within our corporation and discussed this with the supervisor. They recognized Barrera as the winner and like us would eat the cost of the previously cashed tickets that would otherwise have lost. I spoke to other sportsbook manager's in town at this time and determined they were going to consider Barrera the winner according to their rules. (I did not speak to the Palms and do not know their rules on boxing).

At this time, I reconvened with my supervisors and we went over the information and came to a unanimous decision that Barrera should be the rightful posted winner given the circumstances and our rules in place. We then compiled copies of bet tickets, and evidence of Barrera winning. The paper did have a story on Barrera winning and the controversy as well. I felt this was necessary should Jaurez bettors come in to explain to them why they lost. I'm sure they were not happy with it, but wanted to assure them we did everything in our capacity to make a fair decision.

The amount bet on this fight was fairly insignificant, but I felt it was important to set a precedent and review both our rules as well as get a view of others before making a decision.

I feel bad for the bettors on Juarez, and actually felt disgusted after seeing the scorecard. That scorecard is an atrocity and if it were up to me, I would strip Golden Boy Promotions of its license if I worked with the ABC.

Nothing good could come out of this, and I think the books were made to look bad by another black eye on boxing.

That is my take, and I hope that helps.

 

[PokerKingJim]

Definitely not the books fault. Just another black eye for boxing. The score car was obviously doctered as the one judge turned a 9 into a 10 on the final round which then gave Barrera the decision. There needs to be an investigation into this. Do they really want us to believe that they can't add up the score? Lampley even mentioned on the broadcast that it was taking longer than usual to get the scores from the judges and announce the decision. Truly a disgrace

 

[scott]

Any monies paid out prior to the "correction" will be absorbed by the books. After the correct result was declared then that result must be honored by the books. It's no different than a bad score in basketball.
The fight wasn't in LV so what could they have payed out in those 20 or so minutes.

 

[JOddessa]

It was definitely a shitty situation, BUT dont think for a minute that there was NOT a math error. ODLH or anyone on the planet is not ignorant enough to so blatently change scorecards after the fact on such a high profile fight on National television.

People would be getting indicted and going to prison if that was the case and MAB, Goldenboy or anyone involved don't need the money. The math error was absolutely inexcusable, and yet another black eye in an already tarnished sport, but unfortunately it happened.

"I'll tell you exactly what I did," said Armando Garcia, Executive Officer of the CSAC, to Maxboxing at the post-fight presser, "I checked immediately after the scoring was announced, I recognized the error, I immediately went to HBO - they were still on the air - to tell them. I immediately collected the scorecards and went into both dressing rooms, particularly Mr. Juarez's and sat down with them and showed every scorecard for every round for every judge and they were completely satisfied that it was simply a mathematical error."

The copy had crossed out numbers becaase it was the copy that the errors were originally on.


After every major fight, the media is given a copy of the master scoresheet that shows the round-by-round scoring of the three judges - they are not however, the official scorecards that are filled out by the arbiters during the fight.

"You can clearly see the mathematical additions there," said Garcia, "but I have the real scorecards, and I absolutely assure you they've never been altered or anything. They never left my sight till right now. It is what it is - a mathematical error."

 

[GreenDoberman]

Joey,
Was wondering about the scorecards things. Don't you think it would make a lot of sense to show the public copies of the original scorecards then?

 

[JOddessa]

I do think they should at the least release a photocopy the authentic individual round scored cards for the press. I personally think this would be too large a conspiracy with way too steep of consequences for anyone remotely involved with unlawfull activity or even a coverup.

Someone would end up squeeling (they always do), so that makes me think these dopes really did add the cards wrong before writing them on the master scoresheet. I'm just guessing here..........but maybe they assumed when they saw Juarez 10 pt rd in RD 12 that it was a 10-9 Round and never looked beyond that. I cant imagine how stupid they are or must feel.

Then again, maybe the idea of such a blatent and obvious fix and reversal on live television is so proposterous that they are hiding in plain sight. There's really no telling without disclosing the actually judges cards, but we maybe holding our breath there.

You can bet that if there was something changed it will come out eventually. Too many people involved and you know Juarez will want the bad decision reversed if there's a sheard of evidence. Overall a bad day for boxing and worse day for those that got stung once again by the sport at the bettor windows. :-(

 

[TTinCO]

Can the sport of boxing do ANYTHING right? Where are the checks & balances?????

 

[GreenDoberman]

Joey, I respect your opinions on boxing as much as anyone out there.

Reviewing the cards again, it is CLEAR that initially a 9 is written in round 12 and a 114 is written for total. It is equally clear that a 10 is written OVER the 9, and a 5 where the 4 is in 114. I'm trying to figure out how this happens and am somewhat ignorant on the finer points of scoring fights. But looking at those, it is a humongous black eye to boxing and it amazes me that a bigger deal hasn't been made of it than what we get, which is pindrops.

I doubt we will see the original scorecards, but to my ignorant mind the righting directly over a 9 with a 10 and a 4 with a 5 is pretty damning circumstantial evidence.

 

[teazeman]

greendoberman, thanks for sharing this info and how you handled the situation, i would like to see a copy of the scorecard if possible. i for one think you handled it in as professional yet courteous manner, though unhappy i think those holding the losing tickets gathered this from you.

 

[JOddessa]

The 'official' card that is viewable on websites such as Fightnews is not filled out by the three official judges. The judges turn in their cards at the end of every round. A third party (CSAC) then fills out the overall card and adds the score at the conclusion. The scorecard you all see is not the scorecard. They would have to pass that piece of paper around to all 3 judges after each round to get it filled out.

Whoever filled this card above screwed up.

When asked by FightNews why the Commission only releases the tabulation sheet and not the actual judges individual scorecards, Garcia responded “That is what always happens…to give you the scorecards, I have to give you, 12 x 3, 36 individual scorecards.”

MAIN EVENTS REVIEWED THE ORIGINAL SCORING SLIPS.

You haven't heard a peep out of Rocky's promoter or Rocky's manager. If there was any real controversy, Main Events and Shelly Finkel would be screaming bloody murder iunless they were paid hush money and once again this conspiracy wouldbe too large to coverup considering the mainstream attention.

They surely were given the priveledge to see the cards and were able to conclude that there was an error in transferring the scores to the master sheet. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1343217--><!-- THE POST -->