Vegas memories and thoughts 2003

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water cooler,

you are so enthused about people doing
their jobs, what do you think about the
H-1b and L-1 Visas that force people who
do their jobs to not have jobs now ???

yeah, go look it up now, cause you know squat
about it. Just keep losing 20 hands and
smiling. Maybe a hooker will tip you someday...

i have no problem going 20 dimes on a bowling
match with your uncoordinated ass...

OBB
 

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Casper,

You obviously have strong political beliefs regarding illegal aliens. But promoting violence against them? I welcome you to come speak your mind here in San Diego. I know a street corner in the Bario where the "aliens" congregate to pick up menial labor jobs around town...that would be a good spot for you to start punching. Whatever your politics are...I got no issue with. It's your ignorance that is bothersome. You're so blinded by H1-B and L1 and your racism that you assume anyone of latin decent is illegal. I will tell you this...I don't see any of you welfare beggars picking strawberries in the field for Farmer Bob. Maybe you didn't realize this, but nearly one-third of the US Citizens in California are mexican. California is next to Nevada...large outmigration from California to other states...get the picture? There's a real good chance that Mexican barback at the Gold Coast is a US citizen, just like you...except he has a job.

OBB, life for me is grand everwhere, everyday. Life is what you make it, so I make mine good. I certainly have my faults, gambling on football being one of them. But I've worked my ass off to get where I am. Fortunately I don't have to deal with lazy ass people like you who bitch and complain from the unemployment line about aliens stealing jobs. By the way...how many aliens have jobs in your burg? Better yet, how many aliens have jobs that you would even do? If you are unemployed, I'm sure the local Mickey D's is hiring....spout your hatred there my friend.

As far as bowling goes..you got me there. I rolled a 160 once, but that's about as high as I go. I got nothing against bowlers, or even people that can't hold their liquor (beer).

I do have one small question. How does one go about degragating an alien? And just to keep this on Football, take Denver-3 against San Diego.
 

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The simply fact the this matter is as follows: The American people need to realize that the influx of immigrant workers, illegal and legal H1-B, coupled with the mass exodus of American companies over seas (I.E. China, India, Mexico) has started a disastrous effect on the American economy. Such a problem jeopardizes the American standard of life that "we" including you WC cherish so dearly. I am happy for you that you are a success monetarily, however such success was made at a time when our current economy was not in shambles. However I question the ability to derive the same success today, secondly like most business elite including yourself, they use their share of impoverished or legally illegal workers to generate the almighty corporate dollar. WC, the fact that you have a career that pays you well is the reason that further clouds your blind eye towards the problem. Such a reason is why; most Americans do not see it as a quandary. Thus people in your position are more than happy to tip the person who picks up trash or hands me a paper towel in the restroom, not because they want to do it, but because they feel compelled towards the particular American stigma, that “we must tip because these workers depend on it”. Furthermore people such as you feel guilty not tipping because they have been exploiting such people for years, case in point farmer bobs migrant workers. Maybe some do need the tips to survive, however how many are doing jobs that are actually needed, and once again to what degree, most would say nominal at best. However what about the business elite hiring an American educated worker, who desires $35,000.00 as opposed to the H1-B immigrant who wants $30,000.00, the choice is obvious who they will take. Secondly, studies show that the perceptions of American workers, with the exception of blue-collar job, being lazy are purely unfounded. Those with degrees work harder and longer than immigrant counterparts, however corporate America, such as your self-feel more than happy or obligated to cast such people a crumb of their monetary breadbasket. You further create and incite the problem, because you give such people the illusion that this is all they must do to succeed is pick up trash, or deal blackjack and pander for tips. I am sure such “people” are staunch believers in non-procreation. That is the sad part; such people are having children five and six fold that are being brought up in households that offer no semblance of education what so ever. Then the burden is put on the American teachers, whom are expected to educate a youth who no parental reinforcement of the educational context of the classroom at home. Thus the wager lowering cycle of autonomous illegal drone caste workers continues.


Dr.

[This message was edited by drhockey on September 12, 2003 at 10:51 AM.]
 

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Again, your politics cloud your judgement. You simply assume that the bathroom attendant or the black jack dealer that does not have the same skin color as you is an illegal immigrant. That's racism. And on top of your blatant racism, you now have shown more ignorance with such generalities that all aliens have five or six children and are uneducated. Living here in San Diego I do know many illegal aliens, as well as some here with work visas. I know they work a hell of a lot harder than many fat lazy white people who think they deserve high paying jobs but won't make half an effort to earn them.

You are pissed at the wrong people...perhaps you should focus your attention on the people that run this country who provide tax incentives and shelters for companies and corporations to maintain and/or move their operations out of this country. I'm sure you are fully aware that our Vice President's former company, Halliburton, for which he was CEO prior to becoming VP, has been awarded multi-BILLION dollar non-bid government contracts. Now that is something to ponder.

I love how you compare the lowly immigrant bathroom attendant stealing a job from a college educated white bread American. I'm sorry, there just isn't an army of immigrants coming toward your home town to steal your mid-level management job....but there might be a corporate head somewhere that wants to take advantage of the cheap labor. There we agree. So instead of beating up aliens, why don't you take it out on Farmer Bob or Corporate Carl.

By the way, I have several college students that work for me, all of which are US Citizens, and two of which are minorities. They work in casinos and/or bars to suplement their income, and yeah, it bothers me that they have to deal with stupid assholes like you who assume that they are trash and treat them as such when you don't know shit about them.

Take Atlanta -3 vs. the Redskins.

[This message was edited by WC Bias on September 12, 2003 at 03:28 PM.]
 

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One element missing from all the criticism was a serious examination of what the Halliburton contract actually involved and how it came to be signed. For example, was it really reached without competition, as Waxman charged? As it turns out, the evidence that is publicly available (some of it remains classified) suggests that Waxman's accusations are misleading at best and flat wrong at worst. It appears not only that there was not "naked favoritism" at work in the Halliburton contract, but that the Corps of Engineers, and the Bush administration, acted reasonably and properly in awarding the contract — no matter what Waxman says.

Waxman has made three basic accusations about the Halliburton deal. The first is that it was signed without appropriate competition. The second is that it called for Halliburton to be paid under an arrangement that — Waxman says — often results in overcharges to the government. The third objection is that it is a questionable use of federal money because of what Waxman calls Halliburton's "troubling" performance record.

First the competition issue. Last year, as administration officials made plans for war in Iraq, they were greatly concerned that Saddam Hussein would set fire to his country's oil fields, just as retreating Iraqi troops had done in Kuwait at the end of the first Gulf War. That, military planners knew, would result in a huge economic and environmental disaster. "The model we were looking at was what the Iraqis had done in Kuwait at the end of the Gulf War," says Lt. Col. Eugene Pawlik, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers. "We had to consider the possibility that the Iraqis would set that many or more wells on fire in Iraq and what it would take for us to throw a maximum response at a maximum destruction scenario."

Last November, the Corps assigned Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR), which has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Halliburton since the 1960s, to do a classified study of potential damage and repairs in the Iraqi oil fields. Contrary to Waxman's assertion, the work was done under a competitively awarded contract system known as the U.S. Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program, or LOGCAP. The LOGCAP system came about because of the military's need to perform complex jobs — peacekeeping in Bosnia, intervention in Haiti — on sometimes very short notice. In such situations, American troops require lots of logistical support; camps have to be built, utilities have to be supplied, food has to be cooked. By the early 1990s, as the size of the active-duty force shrank, the Pentagon began to "outsource" much of that work, that is, pay civilian contractors to do it rather than tie up soldiers with non-essential tasks. Instead of going through a months-long competitive-bidding process for each job, the military came up with LOGCAP.

LOGCAP is, in effect, a multi-year supercontract. In it, the Army makes a deal with a single contractor, in this case Halliburton, to perform a wide range of unspecified services during emergency situations in the future. The last competition for LOGCAP came in 2001, when Halliburton won the contract over several other bidders. Thus, when the oil-field study was needed, Corps officials say, Halliburton was the natural place to turn. "To invite other contractors to compete to perform a highly classified requirement that Kellogg Brown & Root was already under a competitively awarded contract to perform would have been a wasteful duplication of effort," Corps commander Lt. Gen. Robert Flowers wrote to Waxman in April.

In February 2003, with the study done, the Corps of Engineers decided to issue a contract to actually execute the plan that KBR had drawn up for dealing with problems in the Iraqi oil fields. At the end of that month, Army headquarters authorized the Corps to issue a sole-source contract to KBR. (The assignment seemed logical for another reason: Halliburton/KBR put out 350 oil-well fires in Kuwait after the first Gulf War.) "Only KBR, the contractor that developed the complex, classified contingency plans, could commence implementing them on extremely short notice," Flowers wrote Waxman. "The timing was driven by Central Command's operational requirement to have support available in advance of possibly imminent hostilities." Flowers added that the contract was always intended as a temporary "bridge" to a more permanent contract that would be offered for competitive bidding.

The next question was how large the contract should be. That was a difficult problem, because no one knew how big the problem would be. Would all the fields burn? Would none of them? Just a few? The Army assumed a worst-case scenario and decided the contract would be worth any amount between $0 and $7 billion (a common contracting practice known as ID/IQ, which stands for indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity). The $7 billion cap was thought to be sufficient to handle any emergency.

When the Army told Waxman that, he immediately began calling the KBR deal a $7 billion contract. "We are told it was a short-term contract for very little money, then it turned out it was a $7 billion contract," he said on National Public Radio in early May. What Waxman did not say was that he had been told a month earlier that the contract would not be worth anywhere near the cap amount. Because most of the anticipated disasters did not take place, the Army has asked KBR to do much less work than the original worst-case scenario envisioned, and the contract has therefore been worth far less than it might have been. "We will come nowhere close to the $7 billion figure," says Lt. Col. Pawlik. As of mid June, Pawlik says, the task orders issued to Kellogg Brown & Root totaled about $214 million. It's estimated that, in the end, costs will probably amount to around $600 million. While that is not pocket change, it's also not $7 billion — contrary, again, to Waxman's assertion.

Army officials also suggest that critics consider what might have happened had the Iraqi situation worked out differently. Suppose the wells had been torched and the Army, following Waxman's advice, had begun a long, complicated competitive-bidding process to find a company to put out the fires. "I don't think people would have been satisfied for the wells to have been burning while we were going through standard contract practices," says Pawlik. "I think we would have been getting a lot of questions about why did we pursue that course of action."

Waxman's second objection concerns the way the company will be paid for its services. The LOGCAP payment method, known as a cost-plus-award, calls for KBR to be paid its costs plus a profit of 1 percent. According to the General Accounting Office, KBR could also earn "an incentive fee of up to nine percent of the cost estimate, based on the contractor's performance in a number of areas, including cost control." In one of his letters to the Corps of Engineers, Waxman says that the cost-plus-award system is "generally discouraged in the executive branch because it provides the contractor with an incentive to increase its profits by increasing the costs to the taxpayer." But in fact, the cost-plus-award method is an extremely common arrangement throughout the defense-contracting industry; one can leaf through the pages of Defense Daily and see many hundreds of contracts handled on the same basis. Given such widespread use, it is hard to conclude that the cost-plus-award method somehow makes the Halliburton contract a sweetheart deal for a politically favored company. (Nor is the contract unusually generous; the LOGCAP's range of a 1 percent to 9 percent fee is in line with standard government/industry practice.)

Finally, Waxman objects to what he calls Halliburton's "troubling" performance record, suggesting that Halliburton would not have gotten the contract had Vice President Cheney not once headed the company. But Waxman's charges — and their echoes in outraged editorials — overlook Halliburton's extensive history of defense work for earlier administrations. Indeed, far from having a "troubling" past, one could argue that Halliburton was a favorite contractor of the Clinton Pentagon.

The first LOGCAP was awarded in 1992, as the first Bush administration (including then-Secretary of Defense Cheney) was leaving office. Four companies competed, and the winner was Brown & Root, as it was known at the time (Halliburton changed the name to Kellogg Brown & Root after an acquisition in 1998). The multi-year contract was in effect during much of the Clinton administration. During those years, Brown & Root did extensive work for the Army under the LOGCAP contract in Haiti, Somalia, and Bosnia; contract workers built base camps and provided troops with electrical power, food, and other necessities.

In 1997, when LOGCAP was again put up for bid, Halliburton/Brown & Root lost the competition to another contractor, Dyncorp. But the Clinton Defense Department, rather than switch from Halliburton to Dyncorp, elected to award a separate, sole-source contract to Halliburton/Brown & Root to continue its work in the Balkans. According to a later GAO study, the Army made the choice because 1) Brown & Root had already acquired extensive knowledge of how to work in the area; 2) the company "had demonstrated the ability to support the operation"; and 3) changing contractors would have been costly. The Army's sole-source Bosnia contract with Brown & Root lasted until 1999. At that time, the Clinton Defense Department conducted full-scale competitive bidding for a new contract. The winner was . . . Halliburton/Brown & Root. The company continued its work in Bosnia uninterrupted.

That work received favorable notices throughout the Clinton administration. For example, Vice President Al Gore's National Performance Review mentioned Halliburton's performance in its Report on Reinventing the Department of Defense, issued in September 1996. In a section titled "Outsourcing of Logistics Allows Combat Troops to Stick to Basics," Gore's reinventing-government team favorably mentioned LOGCAP, the cost-plus-award system, and Brown & Root, which the report said provided "basic life support services — food, water, sanitation, shelter, and laundry; and the full realm of logistics services — transportation, electrical, hazardous materials collection and disposal, fuel delivery, airfield and seaport operations, and road maintenance."

In 2001, after the Bush administration came into office, the giant LOGCAP contract expired again and another competition was held. Once again, Halliburton won the contract, and it was under that arrangement that the Iraqi-oilfield analysis was done. As the record shows, Halliburton won big government contracts under the Clinton administration, and it won big government contracts under the Bush administration. The only difference between the two is that Henry Waxman is making allegations of favoritism in the Bush administration, while he appeared untroubled by the issue during the Clinton years.

That is not to say that there have not been problems with Halliburton's work — under both administrations. For example, Waxman cites a case last year in which the company paid a $2 million fine to resolve fraud allegations stemming from its work on a California military base. He also suggests that Halliburton/KBR overcharged the military throughout the Bosnia mission.

In the California case, the company clearly engaged in wrongdoing. But the scope of the problem, when considered in light of the enormous amount of work Halliburton/KBR does for the government and the fact that the issues have been resolved, does not seem a reason to cut Halliburton off from future work. As far as Bosnia is concerned, while critics correctly point out that the company's payment far exceeded original estimates, they fail to mention that a 1997 General Accounting Office report placed the blame mostly on the Army, and not Halliburton/KBR. "Our review shows that the difference in the Army's estimates was largely driven by changes in operational requirements once the forces arrived in Bosnia," the GAO wrote. "Specifically, the Commander in Chief of U.S. Army, Europe, decided to increase the number of base camps from 14 large camps to 34 smaller ones and to accelerate the schedule for upgrading troop housing." Halliburton/KBR was paid more because the Army wanted more.

Now the company is doing major work in Iraq. And while Halliburton's record is generally good, it seems clear that projects of such enormous scope and cost warrant constant scrutiny from government accountants. Because of that, Waxman's request for a GAO investigation of the Iraqi oil contracts seems entirely reasonable. So reasonable, in fact, that by the time he made the request, the GAO had already decided to study the issue. The study will be part of a long line of GAO investigations of military matters. For example, from 1991 to 1993, the GAO published 75 reports on all aspects of Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm. It would not be unreasonable to expect as many from Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The problem, from Henry Waxman's perspective, is that the investigation will likely show that both the government and Halliburton/KBR acted properly. Such a conclusion won't help Waxman's ongoing campaign to suggest that there is something inherently corrupt in the relationship between the Bush administration and Halliburton. Nor is the New York Times likely to editorialize about it. But if the president's critics really want the truth, they'll have to accept the results of the investigations they have demanded.
 

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Jaypaw,

do you think Waxman or Cheney should beat up illegal aliens?
 

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A difference exists between those who are qualified and those who are not qualified to be in this country. Let me clarify, I am not knocking those who are in this country legally, and the jobs they do, however the continued influx of illegals in any capacity is the problem, not a solution towards the problem. Simply put if we would close our boarders, corporate American would be forced to pay a living wage, because most people American, visa, or naturalized American would not do the particular job, and force the employer to raise the wage, and not be dependant upon tips for survival. Secondly, it may seem stereotypical, however most immigrant families have several children because of limited planned parenting education. Whites are also to blame in this however, immigrants have more of an incentive to have children while they are in the U.S., because the children are legalized citizens, thus the parents cannot be deported. In addition, lets not forget those who do not work including whites and collect from the almighty “safety net” of welfare. Secondly, I did not make this a race issue, nor did I state that the bathroom attendant was a lowly position, or attack his race or character. I am not stating this point as an issue of race, I am stating that the influx of people who do not belong in this country have destroyed it for the rest of us. Now going back on the bathroom attendant issue, now if I applied for such a position with several degrees, and I was up against a person with no education what so ever, whom do you think the establishment would hire? The answer is obvious, so in essence yes the bathroom attendant is theoretically taking a job away from me. Employers seem to detract themselves from those with any type of education, because of their own fear that the person is more qualified or may compete for their job. Yes, an army of immigrants is coming, to my hometown, and of course yours. However, this army is educated and primed to take my mid-level management job, and anything else they can get their hands on. That is why the immigration and countless H1-B to L1 visas needs to stop. Thankfully, you own your own business, and or not dependant upon the corporate machine to put food on your table. However others like myself are, however this is a different time and place, and we the educated peons cannot compare in any capacity with the governmental corporate bureaucracy. Additionally I do not perceive any person as trash, nor do I judge based upon what they do, however when a person expects a tip for pouring me a glass of water, or handing me a cold big Mac, that my friend is a problem.


Dr.
 

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No WC...

I just wanted to be sure you knew about the haliburton thing so that wouldnt continue to be perpetuated... To be honest I'm not even paying attention to your discussion.

By the way - I love Atlanta in this game.
 

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Jaypaw, thanks for the additional insight on Halliburton, I do not have a feeling either way, but I do know that had Clinton awarded Al Gore's former company the same contracts, there would have been congressional hearings the next day.

Dr. I don't tip at fast food restaurants, I'm certainly not offended if they have a tip jar out, just like I'm not offended by the homeless alcoholic beggar on my streetcorner trying to pass himself off as a decorated vet.

I don't feel guilty when I tip, that is the culture that we live in and the vast...VAST majority of people that I tip in Las Vegas are not illegal aliens. Besides, how would I know if they were, because their skin color is different?

You claim not to judge, yet you assumed your cab driver and your black jack dealer were illegal immigrants. How do you know this? Because they aren't white?

You make compelling arguments, but then you flush them all down the toilet by using your trip to Las Vegas as an example.

Las Vegas is the ultimate Service Industry. It has been for over 50 years. It is where players come to play, and hustlers get hustled. Gambling is not just a hobby, it is an addiction. That is why Billionaires from around the world travel to this city every day and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a night. Tipping is as much a part of the culture as bass fishing is in Alabama. Obviously tipping is not part of your culture, that is fine, but it does not give you a reason to bash those that work here and make their living on...TIPS....then wrap the entire enchelada in your "illegal immigrant's are ruining the economy" argument. They are two independant variables.

You are the type of person that plans a trip to France, then comes home pissed because they don't speak to you in English. Guess what, you are on their turf. NY City cabbies expect tips....Waiters in Indianapolis expect tips....Bartenders in Portland, OR expect tips. That doesn't make them illegal aliens worthy of violent acts. And certainly, if you get shitty service, do not tip. But I'm sure the cab driver wasn't the only person you cheaped out on...because you take pride in your ignorance.

So knowing these things...why did you even come out to Vegas? If you don't understand the way it works, or even more so, you don't care for the way it works, why subject yourself to it? I don't go ice fishing because I don't like the cold...but if I did, I wouldn't bitch about it.

You feel better about yourself by mistreating people, which says alot about your character, or lack thereof. And that, Mr. unemployed PhD...is why and your obnoxious puking bowler friend don't have jobs.
 

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This may be may favorite thread ever.

OBB- Funny stuff, "Fear and Loathing" material.

WCB- Superb writing.

JP- Great info on Haliburton, take no shit from the left.

DRH- Right on. While I agree with you, I believe the handwriting is on the wall. Certain places in this country are all too willing to give the freedoms for which my ancestors gave their lives, to people who just jumed a wall yesterday. If you are white and educated, I don't think immigration will affect you greatly. Just a fact.

Las Vegas is for everyman. At least when Vegas shoves the vacuum in my pocket, I have a chance of getting it all back. New York, however, shoves the vacuum in, then leaves you at the curb.

Lastly Eagles -6, no way they don't come out fired up.
 

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I do not read the crap you folks post,
but I am up +6 dimes today after BILLS
and DENVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am here and ready to HAMMER !!!!!

I have the balls to make mucho bucks !!!!!
and I WILL !!!!

OBB
 

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just like making +28 dimes
in 1.5 weeks at casino local...
playing blackjack...

i will not let down,
bizness will come to me because I
am a nice OleBillBeater !!!!
who treats people good....

OBB
 

ATL

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I must say this is about the most bizarre thread I've ever seen in this forum but fascinating nonetheless...From outsourcing in India to Halliburton to charges of racism and cultural bias, you guys hit on some topics. I love Vegas and like to think of it as a great equalizer where the uneducated and yes, illegal can find some slice of the American dream. It is far from perfect but it is working to a degree out in the desert. glad to see you guys tucked a few winners in amongst the debate, a beautiful microcosm of society...I'll go under in the monday niter, best of luck
 

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No offense men as I enjoyed the read (for some reason) but this belongs in the Rubber Room. This is the pick forum part of the site.
icon_wink.gif
 

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WC Bias... it IS surprising OBB is unemmployed right...

Hey come see us at Lake Las Vegas sometime and we'll talk some real estate..

I hope it wasn't his OBB's condom that kid swallowed at the RIO..nah he probably doesn't use a rubber to jack off

Cowboys and Under MNF!
 

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