hehehe, good one sweetpea
now go look at a financial statement and think about how they can make red turn black
"sheep":lolBIG:
hehehe, good one sweetpea
now go look at a financial statement and think about how they can make red turn black
"sheep":lolBIG:
We need to get more of the Jap Companies building plants here...I read the other day that only 30% of their Cars sold here are assembled here & who knows where the parts come from...The Auto Companies except Ford (they don't need any govt money) need to file BR & reorganise...I also heard under the 2 tier UAW contract new hires hire in at 10 or 12 hr + ben & it only goes up to like 15 top rate.... The Execs & the brass need a pay cut too.A Complete overhaul is in order..Ford already did their downsizing a couple years ago I can't understand why GM & Chrysler did'nt follow suit... Most of the parts suppliers are non union already.
The problem is that Jap cars built in the US have subpar quality compared to the ones built in Japan.
I bought a new Toyota Sequoia in 2004, that was built in Indiana, which had more minor repairs (rear window motor, battery, u-joint recall, etc.) than my 1994 Lexus and 2000 Camry have had combined (both built in Japan).
Traded in the Sequoia last month for a 2009 Acura TSX - wanted the TL but noticed it was made in Ohio so I went with the Japan built TSX. My BIL has a 2003 TL (from Ohio) and has had the tranny replaced and broken engine mounts - no thanks.
Lesson learned is not to waste your money on any car built by fat, stupid, lazy, overpaid americans. (ie: midwest blue-collar workers) Make sure the VIN# starts with "J" if you want a quality Japanese car.
I bought a new Toyota Sequoia in 2004, that was built in Indiana, which had more minor repairs (rear window motor, battery, u-joint recall, etc.) than my 1994 Lexus and 2000 Camry have had combined (both built in Japan).
Traded in the Sequoia last month for a 2009 Acura TSX - wanted the TL but noticed it was made in Ohio so I went with the Japan built TSX. My BIL has a 2003 TL (from Ohio) and has had the tranny replaced and broken engine mounts - no thanks.
Lesson learned is not to waste your money on any car built by fat, stupid, lazy, overpaid americans. (ie: midwest blue-collar workers) Make sure the VIN# starts with "J" if you want a quality Japanese car.
The Republican southern Senators want the unions to take a pay cut and they want to bust the unions, but are they willing to take a pay cut and give us the benefits that they receive. How come it is always the working man's fault?? The CEO'S that make millions and the Republicans are always trying to fuck the little guy. Maybe we should blame Bill Clinton for the big surplus of money that George Bush and Dick Cheney fucking pissed away. Now that is 2 fucking corrupt bastards.
appreciate it and understand what you are saying. None of this is new for me. One thing is I have done this for years before we got here. She says we see way way of each other more now in Vegas then we did in Michigan. If anything we get along so much better in Vegas then in Michigan as my other job was way way more stressful then the one I have now. I think sometimes you lump me in with a lot of degenerate gamblers who live and die with this. That is simply not true. You have to remember everything is more or less done for me after about 6pm most nights. I work pretty much the same hours as her. Plus I never really scoreboard watch.
Funny you say that. Living your one and only life making the same amount of money from corporate america is no way to live for me. Now that is for me but I can see no worse way of living one's life. Most people would rather have a budget and get there monthly check and retire in 40 years with their penison, holding their breath the company dont ditch them whenever they want. I personally know at least a half dozen gamblers in town who are happily married for years and most of it is cause of the extra free they have together.
I cant guarantee anyone I will do great at this. We will have to see but I would rather shoot for the sky doing this then making the same amount every week. I figure at least I took a chance in life. Not the way I want to live same amount every week. I 100% compare myself to a bookie. I have the same edge they have on their clients and I know many successfull bookies.
Lets not forget my goal is too do this seriously for a few years then hopefully build enough of a bankroll to do my next high risk high reward activity I have planned in life. Like I said might not be for everyone but I would be so miserable working in corporate america.
Sorry I got off the threads subject just felt I needed to defend myself. Carry on!!
"Plus I never really scoreboard watch."
THIS is the key element to being a legitimate, full time sports capper and investor. There's plenty of work to do without wasting time watching in-game scores. The only scores that matter are END of games (or halftimes if you happen to be someone who works 2H wagers).
I'd venture that the average sports bettor spends more time watching the scoreboard than he does capping and analyzing important data.
Witness the myriad "in game threads" here at the Rx where guys will spend two to three hours anxiously following every jump shot, pass or run in a game when they could instead be using those couple hours to get a much better set up for later or next day events.
THIS is the key element to being a legitimate, full time sports capper and investor. There's plenty of work to do without wasting time watching in-game scores. The only scores that matter are END of games (or halftimes if you happen to be someone who works 2H wagers).
I'd venture that the average sports bettor spends more time watching the scoreboard than he does capping and analyzing important data.
Witness the myriad "in game threads" here at the Rx where guys will spend two to three hours anxiously following every jump shot, pass or run in a game when they could instead be using those couple hours to get a much better set up for later or next day events.
From this morning's Blade in Toledo, OH
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081213/BUSINESS02/812130362
UAW workers' pay on par with Japanese competitors in U.S.
<table width="248" align="right" bgcolor="#f1f1f3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>
By STEVE EDER
BLADE STAFF WRITER <center></center>
The question of how much a union assembly-line worker makes for building Chrysler Jeeps in Toledo versus how much a nonunion technician earns for building Honda Accords in Marysville, Ohio, is perplexing the policymakers in Washington.<center></center>
It's so perplexing that it halted the painstaking negotiations in the U.S. Senate to lend $14 billion to bail out the struggling automakers.<center></center>
As a prerequisite for the aid to automakers, Senate Republicans demanded that United Auto Workers agree to wage concessions that would cause pay for its assembly-line workers to fall in line by next year with those paid by Japanese companies.<center></center>
The numbers, however, paint a picture of UAW wages already in line with Japanese competitors building cars in the United States.<center></center>
"There's a lot of myths out there," said Ed Miller, a spokesman for Honda, which has plants in six states, including Ohio.<center></center>
"There's some assumptions about our pay and benefits that are just that - they are assumptions," he said.<center></center>
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, in a news conference in Detroit yesterday, accused the Republican senators of engaging in "subterfuge" to stand in the way of a bailout, going so far as to say the GOP wanted to "pierce the heart" of organized labor.<center></center>
"There were Republicans that wanted to tear down any agreement we came up with," Mr. Gettelfinger said.<center></center>
During the past month, as the Big Three have pleaded with Congress to loan them millions to bail them out of a financial mess that threatens their survival and as many as 3 million jobs, the UAW repeatedly has been forced to defend the wages earned by its workers and offer concessions to aid the faltering automakers.<center></center>
In one attempt to dispel rumors about lavish $73-an-hour wages paid to UAW workers, the union released a fact sheet explaining that Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors pay $28 an hour for assemblers and $33 an hour for skilled trades workers. New hires make about $14 an hour, according to the union.<center></center>
The fact sheet called the notion that UAW workers make $73 per hour "outdated and inaccurate," explaining that figure includes not only health care, pension, and other compensation, but includes the pensions and health-care benefits of retired employees.<center></center>
"That $73 was not explained very well over the years," Mr. Miller of Honda said.<center></center>
General Motors says its total hourly costs are $69 an hour - including the pension and health benefits of more than 432,000 retired workers. Toyota, which has fewer retirees and less costly benefit packages, says its total wage costs average $48 an hour.<center></center>
But based strictly on wages, the $28 an hour paid by Ford, Chrysler, and GM fall in line with their counterparts. Toyota says it pays about $30 an hour, while Honda pays $28.87, and Nissan pays an hourly rate of about $25 an hour.<center></center>
The $28.87 Honda workers earn includes the base wage of $24.80, plus an attendance bonus of $1.25 for each hour worked, a bonus-sharing program that adds $2.32 per hour, and an earnings payment of 50 cents per hour.
Also, Honda workers are offered a competitive health care plan.<center></center>
At the Jeep plant in Toledo, workers were concerned about the perceptions of what they are paid.<center></center>
"We haven't had a raise," said Glenn Paisie, 53, of Point Place, a 30-year employee. "We don't get no raises. … We're only making a couple bucks more an hour than the foreign plants down in Georgia. The problem is they don't have any retirees to pay for. That's the biggest problem."<center></center>
Mr. Paisie noted that new hires at Jeep make about $14 an hour.<center></center>
"How much lower do you want us to go? I think about it, taking a cut, but you have to understand our bills are up to what we make," he said.<center></center>
Nelson Lichtenstein, the director of the Center for the Study of Work, Labor, and Democracy at the University of California, Santa Barbara, said the rejection of a bailout is about much more than wages.<center></center>
"It's not just the wage," said Mr. Lichtenstein, who has written books on the automotive industry and Wal-Mart. "It is the whole ethos of having a career. That's what is at stake here."<center></center>
Mr. Lichtenstein believes those in the Senate who are demanding new concessions from unions are looking beyond wages and are hoping to wash away the power that the UAW has on the factory floor.<center></center>
"That's really what these Republicans are asking for," Mr. Lichtenstein said.<center></center> Mr. Gettelfinger, during his news conference yesterday, accused Republican senators from the South who blocked passage of the auto-loan bill of doing the bidding of foreign automakers who have located factories in their states.<center></center>
"They thought perhaps they could have a two-fer here maybe: Pierce the heart of organized labor while representing the foreign brands," Mr. Gettelfinger said.<center></center>
Mr. Lichtenstein said if the UAW falters, it'll cause the wages for assemblers to fall across the board.<center></center>
"If the UAW is caught in a total bind, then what will happen is in the South these transplants will start paying Wal-Mart wages," Mr. Lichtenstein said.<center></center> Japanese firms such as Honda say they are continuing to pay a wage that's competitive with their Big Three counterparts.<center></center>
"People who live in communities where there are Honda plants, they know," Mr. Miller said.<center></center>
"The further you get away you are more likely to not know or get things confused."<center></center>
There are no Honda plants in or near Washington, where lawmakers are deciding the fate of the U.S. auto industry.<center></center>
In a statement late Thursday night after talks came to a halt, U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) chided Senate Republicans for being out of touch with the "real America."<center></center>
"Tonight, Senate Republicans, who sometimes observe that all wisdom does not reside in Washington, D.C., decided that they should dictate a labor contract for American autoworkers to replace the one agreed to just last year," Mr. Brown said. "While workers were willing to be part of the solution, they could not and should not shoulder the entire burden."<center></center>
Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, a Republican, supported the bailout and bemoaned its failure, calling on the White House to use other funds to rescue the automakers.<center></center>
"The politics need to end before more companies fall through the ice," Mr. Voinovich said in a statement.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081213/BUSINESS02/812130362
UAW workers' pay on par with Japanese competitors in U.S.
<table width="248" align="right" bgcolor="#f1f1f3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>
<table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
By STEVE EDER
BLADE STAFF WRITER <center></center>
The question of how much a union assembly-line worker makes for building Chrysler Jeeps in Toledo versus how much a nonunion technician earns for building Honda Accords in Marysville, Ohio, is perplexing the policymakers in Washington.<center></center>
It's so perplexing that it halted the painstaking negotiations in the U.S. Senate to lend $14 billion to bail out the struggling automakers.<center></center>
As a prerequisite for the aid to automakers, Senate Republicans demanded that United Auto Workers agree to wage concessions that would cause pay for its assembly-line workers to fall in line by next year with those paid by Japanese companies.<center></center>
The numbers, however, paint a picture of UAW wages already in line with Japanese competitors building cars in the United States.<center></center>
"There's a lot of myths out there," said Ed Miller, a spokesman for Honda, which has plants in six states, including Ohio.<center></center>
"There's some assumptions about our pay and benefits that are just that - they are assumptions," he said.<center></center>
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, in a news conference in Detroit yesterday, accused the Republican senators of engaging in "subterfuge" to stand in the way of a bailout, going so far as to say the GOP wanted to "pierce the heart" of organized labor.<center></center>
"There were Republicans that wanted to tear down any agreement we came up with," Mr. Gettelfinger said.<center></center>
During the past month, as the Big Three have pleaded with Congress to loan them millions to bail them out of a financial mess that threatens their survival and as many as 3 million jobs, the UAW repeatedly has been forced to defend the wages earned by its workers and offer concessions to aid the faltering automakers.<center></center>
In one attempt to dispel rumors about lavish $73-an-hour wages paid to UAW workers, the union released a fact sheet explaining that Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors pay $28 an hour for assemblers and $33 an hour for skilled trades workers. New hires make about $14 an hour, according to the union.<center></center>
The fact sheet called the notion that UAW workers make $73 per hour "outdated and inaccurate," explaining that figure includes not only health care, pension, and other compensation, but includes the pensions and health-care benefits of retired employees.<center></center>
"That $73 was not explained very well over the years," Mr. Miller of Honda said.<center></center>
General Motors says its total hourly costs are $69 an hour - including the pension and health benefits of more than 432,000 retired workers. Toyota, which has fewer retirees and less costly benefit packages, says its total wage costs average $48 an hour.<center></center>
But based strictly on wages, the $28 an hour paid by Ford, Chrysler, and GM fall in line with their counterparts. Toyota says it pays about $30 an hour, while Honda pays $28.87, and Nissan pays an hourly rate of about $25 an hour.<center></center>
The $28.87 Honda workers earn includes the base wage of $24.80, plus an attendance bonus of $1.25 for each hour worked, a bonus-sharing program that adds $2.32 per hour, and an earnings payment of 50 cents per hour.
Also, Honda workers are offered a competitive health care plan.<center></center>
At the Jeep plant in Toledo, workers were concerned about the perceptions of what they are paid.<center></center>
"We haven't had a raise," said Glenn Paisie, 53, of Point Place, a 30-year employee. "We don't get no raises. … We're only making a couple bucks more an hour than the foreign plants down in Georgia. The problem is they don't have any retirees to pay for. That's the biggest problem."<center></center>
Mr. Paisie noted that new hires at Jeep make about $14 an hour.<center></center>
"How much lower do you want us to go? I think about it, taking a cut, but you have to understand our bills are up to what we make," he said.<center></center>
Nelson Lichtenstein, the director of the Center for the Study of Work, Labor, and Democracy at the University of California, Santa Barbara, said the rejection of a bailout is about much more than wages.<center></center>
"It's not just the wage," said Mr. Lichtenstein, who has written books on the automotive industry and Wal-Mart. "It is the whole ethos of having a career. That's what is at stake here."<center></center>
Mr. Lichtenstein believes those in the Senate who are demanding new concessions from unions are looking beyond wages and are hoping to wash away the power that the UAW has on the factory floor.<center></center>
"That's really what these Republicans are asking for," Mr. Lichtenstein said.<center></center> Mr. Gettelfinger, during his news conference yesterday, accused Republican senators from the South who blocked passage of the auto-loan bill of doing the bidding of foreign automakers who have located factories in their states.<center></center>
"They thought perhaps they could have a two-fer here maybe: Pierce the heart of organized labor while representing the foreign brands," Mr. Gettelfinger said.<center></center>
Mr. Lichtenstein said if the UAW falters, it'll cause the wages for assemblers to fall across the board.<center></center>
"If the UAW is caught in a total bind, then what will happen is in the South these transplants will start paying Wal-Mart wages," Mr. Lichtenstein said.<center></center> Japanese firms such as Honda say they are continuing to pay a wage that's competitive with their Big Three counterparts.<center></center>
"People who live in communities where there are Honda plants, they know," Mr. Miller said.<center></center>
"The further you get away you are more likely to not know or get things confused."<center></center>
There are no Honda plants in or near Washington, where lawmakers are deciding the fate of the U.S. auto industry.<center></center>
In a statement late Thursday night after talks came to a halt, U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) chided Senate Republicans for being out of touch with the "real America."<center></center>
"Tonight, Senate Republicans, who sometimes observe that all wisdom does not reside in Washington, D.C., decided that they should dictate a labor contract for American autoworkers to replace the one agreed to just last year," Mr. Brown said. "While workers were willing to be part of the solution, they could not and should not shoulder the entire burden."<center></center>
Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, a Republican, supported the bailout and bemoaned its failure, calling on the White House to use other funds to rescue the automakers.<center></center>
"The politics need to end before more companies fall through the ice," Mr. Voinovich said in a statement.
It's gonna happen eventually Bar.
Eventually, retired government employees will also have their pensions cut.
They'll enable some emergency legislation and hack a chunk off all those retired government bums with their early retirement on health grounds double-sized pensions etc etc.
At least those auto workers actually created some wealth over the decades, unlike government employees.
The only pot left with any cash is the pension/social security pot, so don't be surprised to see it come under pressure.
Eventually, retired government employees will also have their pensions cut.
They'll enable some emergency legislation and hack a chunk off all those retired government bums with their early retirement on health grounds double-sized pensions etc etc.
At least those auto workers actually created some wealth over the decades, unlike government employees.
The only pot left with any cash is the pension/social security pot, so don't be surprised to see it come under pressure.
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yeah and this goes beyond just the auto industry
my uncle worked for a union shop in the printing industry his whole life and his pension likely at risk
the union ran um outta town a year or two ago
now he's working less hours and getting paid less at a smaller printing company
plus also realize that alot of the union/pension money is stashed in equities and other crap that is getting killed to boot
my uncle worked for a union shop in the printing industry his whole life and his pension likely at risk
the union ran um outta town a year or two ago
now he's working less hours and getting paid less at a smaller printing company
plus also realize that alot of the union/pension money is stashed in equities and other crap that is getting killed to boot
If they want a chunk of my own "pension property" then they'll have to prise it out of my cold dead hand, since it consists of hard assets like a hoose, not easily manipulable government promissory notes and contracts.
My arse would be twitching if I had a big pension pot entitlement due in the next 10-20 years.
My arse would be twitching if I had a big pension pot entitlement due in the next 10-20 years.
yeah that's my uncle
luckily my aunt is making more these days to pick up the slack
they should be fine but likely gonna have to work longer than they had envisioned
like many other americans even in non union related industries looking at their current 401k holdings and such
the fact that people living longer a big problem with the baby boomers nearing retirement age and all this mess on equities and such that their retirement is stashed in getting hit hard
they gonna hang around in the job market longer and not get outta the way for the youngins looking for jobs
If they DO leave pensions alone, then they'll prolly tax the ass off stock market pension fund income and pension income distributed to retirees.
:grandmais
What they miss on the swings they'll nail on the roundabouts, and taxing people at source is far easier than trying to get it from them after they've been given it.
:grandmais
What they miss on the swings they'll nail on the roundabouts, and taxing people at source is far easier than trying to get it from them after they've been given it.
y alot easier for them to tax first
that's why they directly deduct state income tax, federal income tax, medicare, and social security from your paychecks
J6P less likely to get pissed off and start a 2nd american revolution since he never had the money in their hands anyway
if J6P had to fork over 20-50% of his income in one lump sum for the previous year every april 15th he'd be one pretty pissed off motherfucker
that's why they directly deduct state income tax, federal income tax, medicare, and social security from your paychecks
J6P less likely to get pissed off and start a 2nd american revolution since he never had the money in their hands anyway
if J6P had to fork over 20-50% of his income in one lump sum for the previous year every april 15th he'd be one pretty pissed off motherfucker
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