This makes my point just how far left wing the RX

[Oceans11]

It was just another Gulf of Tonkin ruse.

Hey! If it works once it can work again.

And if you really WANT to go to war, any old flimsy excuse will do.

And just like Vietnam, no-one else really wants to send troops there, so its your ballgame, your glory.


-------------------------------------
July 27, 1994

30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War
By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon
Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear.

"American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression", announced a Washington Post headline on Aug. 5, 1964.

That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: "President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin."

But there was no "second attack" by North Vietnam -- no "renewed attacks against American destroyers." By reporting official claims as absolute truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam War.

A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese casualties.

The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 -- and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

The truth was very different.

Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers -- in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force.

"The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place," writes scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were "part of a campaign of increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been pursuing since early 1964."

On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf -- a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam.

But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened.

http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html

[This message was edited by eek on April 16, 2004 at 08:03 AM.]

 

[jaypaw]

beautiful

but irrelevant

 

[bblight]

General - did you say Harvard? Harvard???
That's the college that sits in the middle of the People's Republic of Cambridge? Gimmee a break willya- the people in Cambridge make your average run of the mill liberal look like a lock-step Fascist. A few years ago they had an art show on display at the Cambridge library - it was all dildo's - yes, I said dildo's, as in rubber dicks, - on display in various positions of repose. Where else but San Francisco East could you find such lasciviousness displayed as art? And in a public library?

And since when did college students not vote liberal - after all, most of the academic elitist can't find work anywhere else (except working (Working? - Well, showing up for work) for the government).

Each one of my 3 children graduated college as bonafied liberals. They each got a job and they each had all of these plans to spend their hard earned money - until they got paid and saw what happened to their checks - which quickly changed their political views - two are now Republicans and one is "non-alligned".

My youngest daughter does nothing but lament "They took $17,000 out of me last year -- $17,000!" - She's a real Republican in how she now thinks!

By the way, students don't tend to vote; but graduates who have to pay taxes do vote.

Unless Bush really screws the pooch, Kerry doesn't stand a chance

[This message was edited by bblight on April 16, 2004 at 09:33 AM.]

 

[Lt.Dan]

Left wing? I consider myself as a Progressive. I am not brainwashed by either of the 2 major political parties. I think and vote according to my own beliefs.

bblight,

Only 10% of the millions of men & women who served in RVN were in actual combat. I consider people like you, although you were in country, to only be a notch above Junior as far as your military service is concerned. Yes, I remember you Air Farce punks, in the rear w/ the gear drinking cold Hamm's and Olympia from your little Sanyo reefers. BTW, we would not allow AF F4s to fly close combat support because the chickenshits wouldn't fly low enough to see what the hell they were bombing or dropping napalm on. You wouldn't have last an hour in my outfit and the rest of you brave young girls would have been culled out in bootcamp. God bless the brave young Marines who are being slaughtered by Junior's gang of neocon, draft-doging chickenhawk. Left out hanging in the breeze by an administration that has no clue.

Semper Fi,

Lt. Dan

 

[bblight]

Lt Dan - a rather caustic comment about the Air Force - even if I do agree. As far as battle is concerned - well, you were a Lt and we all know how most of them got their battle wounds - from their own troops! And the Lts who didn't get wounded made sure they kept the EM in front of them.

You can talk your rag time crap for some other dimwitty - I was there and I know what went on!

In Vietnam officer = asshole, and Bronze bars meant really big gung ho asshole.

Go give your hua bulls... to the rest of the Pinko Brigade - I'm sure they love it!

I'd like to see your DD-214 to make sure you were there; I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't one of those "kind" who read a book and now tell stories.

By the way, it was 105's when I was there!

 

[FloydGondolli]

Blight, maybe we ought turn BG Burkett loose on the Lt. and his "heroic" cohorts here. Interent forums are loaded with many such "veterans".

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2000/08-14-2000/vo16no17_vietnam.htm

 

[bblight]

BY the way - now that we're into this Vietnam discussion - I was with a "Red Horse" construction team - we helped to build Phu Cat Air Base in '66. The base commmander was a Navy Commander (a Major to you) and we had RMK-BRJ working there. I was living in a tent that soon became a hootch in the jungle and got shot at a fair number of times during my tour. We were mortared with those damned "82"'s several times a week.
I even git to shoot back with my trusty M-1, which was traded in during my first month for an AR-15.
At one point, I was "volunteered" to fly crew on a C7A for a few weeks. We used to go to Bong Son and Ankhe for peace and quiet.

I know that you claim to be a rough, tough Marine, but please don't whine at me about what my tour was all about - You don't know!

 

[bblight]

Hey Floydd -
you're right about that - I remember this guy who claimed to be a Vietnam Vet replying to my claim to have also been in Korea -"Yeh man - the jungle in Korea is alomost as bad as Vietnam."
Jungle? Hell, you can't find a tree in the damned country - and the Arctic circle ain't that cold!

 

[Lt.Dan]

There must be a website for every wannabe in cyber space, here is another:

www.people who wannabe fictional characters from the movie "Boogie Nights".com

 

[jaypaw]

www.people.com ?

 

[FloydGondolli]

Hey Lt., I'd rather be a character from "Boogie Nights" than a character from "Forrest Gump".

Point is, you are a liar and a wannabe.

If you really were a Vietnam veteran, you would certainly know who B.G. Burkett is.

 

[wilheim]

B.G. "Stolen Valor" Burkett.

 

[FloydGondolli]

I see Wilheim knows how to use Google.

 

[bblight]

Right on Floydd - I'd happily sign a Form DA-180 - better yet, I have my DD-214 which lists my "SEA" service.

I've met a few "false" Vets, but it was usually lies told in a barroom.

THe BG Burkett thing is so true! It's not just the Fake hero's, - it's the false charactrization of Vietnam Vets as fringe lunatics. Way back when, I used to proudly have the fact of my Veterans status on my Resume - until I figured out it was hurting rather than helping me.

Have you ever noticed that every time someone goes "p o s t a l" that the media tries to tie their eruption on militery service.

Yup Floydd, - you're right.

 

[wilheim]

What is a DD Form 256? Or a DD 1725? What is the date on DD214 (the date between DD and 214). What is box 10A fo DD214? What is in box 33? What is a VA form 26-8320?

wil.

 

[bblight]

Hmmm - lets see - my original DD214 is in a safe deposit box - but I have several copies - the words DD form 214 are on the bottom left of the form - but, because it's a copy, I only see half of them, so there might be something under the word "form".

Box 10A gives my selective service number
Box 33 is the typed name grade ??? authorization officer - it's typed over by the name, rank, service branch, and title of the officer and not totally readable.

What's on 10b?

 

[wilheim]

BB lol. 10b is the selective service local board number, and address (draft board).

33 - should read: John A. Doe, MSGT. USA
Chief, DAC (or whatever in AF)

wil.

 

[bblight]

33 reads "Frank J. Krushensky, 1/LT, USAF; Base Separations Officer".

 

[wilheim]

1st Liutenant wow. I wonder how Lt. Krushensky is doing today. I only got a Master sargeant to sign me out, not really John Doe though, I don't like to use real names if I can help it.

A VA form 26-8320 is a certificate of eligibility for loan guaranty benefits, which is a VA loan to buy a house. Mine was issued at the John F. Kennedy Federal Building, Boston, Mass. 02203.

A DD256 is an an Honorable Discharge.

The date on all DD forms 214 (back then) was 1 Jul 66. A DD1725 is a certificiate of appreciation for services in the armed forces of the US during a critical time in its history, signed by the incumbent president (Nixon in my case).


wil.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Wil,

Did you ever have your DD-214 updated or request for a correction of military records. I did in 1981 and found that I had an extra PUC awarded to my Division, a NMUC and several gook medals like the Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation W/ Galantry Cross Color and Republic of Vietnam Meritoriuos Unit Citation (Civil Actions Color, First Class) plus I had 3 extra bronze stars for for my VSM. No big deal just a little extra fruit salad if you ever fall out in uniform. The General has an email addy where you can reach me for awhile. Getting ready to live the country for a bit but I can give you the appropriate info if interested.

Semper Fi,

Lt. Dan