My advice would be to follow SBR's "Recommended List". If a book is removed, be cautious. Watch the ratings. Do not ever post up with a shop that is rated below B-.
SBR is the Moody's or Standard & Poors of this industry. We need some type of unbiased source to rate these books. And SBR does an excellent job. If they did not exist, I am certain that I would have been stiffed by more than one book by now. No stiffs since learning of SBR.
SBR is the Moody's or Standard & Poors of this industry. We need some type of unbiased source to rate these books. And SBR does an excellent job. If they did not exist, I am certain that I would have been stiffed by more than one book by now. No stiffs since learning of SBR.
Dogball...I see your point of view BUT everyone knows the RX is PART watchdog and Part Business . I agree the RX has a little responsiblity in this as it was promoting a product But I fully believe that at the TIME of a book coming on here they do check it out to an extent the best they can...We all have to be cautious in what we do..Heck I played at Bet PAN also because of the RX but I made the choice to do it knowing the risks as with anybook that could go 
up...(not saying Bet Pa has yet). Seeing this happen makes me feel more comfortable with books like Oly and pinny though
I choose not to play at V-wager for example even though the RX loves it...I see your point just wanted to share mine
up...(not saying Bet Pa has yet). Seeing this happen makes me feel more comfortable with books like Oly and pinny thoughI choose not to play at V-wager for example even though the RX loves it...I see your point just wanted to share mine
Wilheim-
COntinuing the analogy, I dont technically pay Smith BArney for there opinion, I pay them to execute trades for me when I buy stock. Naturally built into that is the cost of there research if they recommend a stock . But I still have to pay someone when i want to buy a stock
Thanks for sharing Dante, I hope I didnt come off as blaming the rx for this, I stated my opinion and invited others into a seemingly very intersting debate.
We have newbies who blindly listened and oldies like you who did the same.
We all know the risks and I understand that.
Thanks
At the end of all this, when the dust settles, it is clear to me this dilema needs to be addressed , there has to be a happy median bwtween watchdog and business in order for all sides to strive.
COntinuing the analogy, I dont technically pay Smith BArney for there opinion, I pay them to execute trades for me when I buy stock. Naturally built into that is the cost of there research if they recommend a stock . But I still have to pay someone when i want to buy a stock
Thanks for sharing Dante, I hope I didnt come off as blaming the rx for this, I stated my opinion and invited others into a seemingly very intersting debate.
We have newbies who blindly listened and oldies like you who did the same.
We all know the risks and I understand that.
Thanks
At the end of all this, when the dust settles, it is clear to me this dilema needs to be addressed , there has to be a happy median bwtween watchdog and business in order for all sides to strive.
sbr had pan am a b rated book until it was too late by the time they dropped em it was stiff city. I have 3k+ there as a resulst of thr rx endorsement. I have never seen a book with this much praise out of the blocks not even last one year. Every day this week they say refund by tommorrow... I dont see a takeover due to the location of pan am. Hopefully the backers will be honest enough to pay out or new owners withen that country will assume the debts.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogball:
Wilheim-
COntinuing the analogy, I dont technically pay Smith BArney for there opinion, I pay them to execute trades for me when I buy stock. Naturally built into that is the cost of there research if they recommend a stock . But I still have to pay someone when i want to buy a stock
Thanks for sharing Dante, I hope I didnt come off as blaming the rx for this, I stated my opinion and invited others into a seemingly very intersting debate.
We have newbies who blindly listened and oldies like you who did the same.
We all know the risks and I understand that.
Thanks
At the end of all this, when the dust settles, it is clear to me this dilema needs to be addressed , there has to be a happy median bwtween watchdog and business in order for all sides to strive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
dogball,
you have some VERY valid points Sir I understood you correct and agree
Wilheim-
COntinuing the analogy, I dont technically pay Smith BArney for there opinion, I pay them to execute trades for me when I buy stock. Naturally built into that is the cost of there research if they recommend a stock . But I still have to pay someone when i want to buy a stock
Thanks for sharing Dante, I hope I didnt come off as blaming the rx for this, I stated my opinion and invited others into a seemingly very intersting debate.
We have newbies who blindly listened and oldies like you who did the same.
We all know the risks and I understand that.
Thanks
At the end of all this, when the dust settles, it is clear to me this dilema needs to be addressed , there has to be a happy median bwtween watchdog and business in order for all sides to strive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
dogball,
you have some VERY valid points Sir I understood you correct and agree
Lastly, what is the point of determining the Prescription's level of accountability? Even if we were to reach a consensus on their being 100% accountable, I do not believe that there will ever be any compensation coming from the RX. So again, what is the point?
And with the timing of this disastrous event, I feel that everyone is really screwed here. There will be no bailout as was the case with GA and others. In their cases, there was still time enough for some healing between the event and now (SuperBowl). Isn't now (Superbowl/The Big Game) supposed to be the big payoff for book backers/investors? It seems BetPanAm could just not reach the finish line. And I am certain that the troubles did not recently begin. They probably began to dig a hole for themselves as early as October.
And with the timing of this disastrous event, I feel that everyone is really screwed here. There will be no bailout as was the case with GA and others. In their cases, there was still time enough for some healing between the event and now (SuperBowl). Isn't now (Superbowl/The Big Game) supposed to be the big payoff for book backers/investors? It seems BetPanAm could just not reach the finish line. And I am certain that the troubles did not recently begin. They probably began to dig a hole for themselves as early as October.
Thanks Dante, I think you are another figure who has to lead for the players in this matter.
Boxing Freak-
This is strictly a hunch on my part, but I would not be surprised to see Ken draft some kind of remedy / bailout for those who lose $, IF IT HAPPENS.
Ken has a lot of power and understands what is at stake
Boxing Freak-
This is strictly a hunch on my part, but I would not be surprised to see Ken draft some kind of remedy / bailout for those who lose $, IF IT HAPPENS.
Ken has a lot of power and understands what is at stake
there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that BETPANAM had problems from the onset.......there is no way a book can go into the tank this fast..........either
1. the books stability was misrepresented from the onset
2. g**** mismanagement (if this is the case, warning signs of problems would of become VERY VISIBLE TO THE OWNERS...long before no pay and slow pay, they just elected to ignore them..
3. disapearing funds......(read into this what you want)....
people nothing is for sure in the booking business.......some go under......BUT ITS A PROCESS.....ITS NOT LIKE EVERYTHING IS HUNKY-DORY ONE DAY THEN YOU GO TO BED AND WAKE UP THE NEXT MORNING.....AND OOOPS EVERYTHING IS TURNED TO POOP.........
IT IS NOT LIKE THAT.........
what pisses me off is there is never any accountability.....the freakin owners know if they are in trouble or not..............imo
SHRINK has alot of explaining to do.............
1. the books stability was misrepresented from the onset
2. g**** mismanagement (if this is the case, warning signs of problems would of become VERY VISIBLE TO THE OWNERS...long before no pay and slow pay, they just elected to ignore them..
3. disapearing funds......(read into this what you want)....
people nothing is for sure in the booking business.......some go under......BUT ITS A PROCESS.....ITS NOT LIKE EVERYTHING IS HUNKY-DORY ONE DAY THEN YOU GO TO BED AND WAKE UP THE NEXT MORNING.....AND OOOPS EVERYTHING IS TURNED TO POOP.........
IT IS NOT LIKE THAT.........
what pisses me off is there is never any accountability.....the freakin owners know if they are in trouble or not..............imo
SHRINK has alot of explaining to do.............
Dog - Thats is the key point here, only Ken can possibly really make a difference in this case as far as The Rx is concerned. The mods are trying to deal with all the different opinions and accusations as best we can. Bottom line is that our hands are tied as far as any real remidies are concerned in this matter. Unike individual problems that posters come to us with, where we can arbitrate, and with luck get a just solution to the problem. The BetPanAm situation is not like that. its more of a class action than a specific grievience. We like everyone else, can only wait and see, while hoping for the best.
wil.
wil.
I did not have any $ in PanAm, but came close not that long ago.
What can (should) the RX do in hindsight?
1. Any referal monies received from PanAm from posters listing RX of the referal should be placed in a pool and refunded, pro-rata to those players. Why ? RX received the benefit from this transaction with ZERO risk or cost of service. This was unearned profit at the expense of the players.
2. Advertising dollars received less the costs involved to originate the advertising (this includes employee time) and cost to place the ads on the RX site (technology, time, live lines) should be identified and provided back to RX posters. Why ? Sites that are deemed worthy to be advertisers onthe RX are assumed by the players to have some degree of due dilligence having been perfromed up front and some monitoring on an ongoing basis. Otherwise we would expect every site in the yahoo directory to be here.
I think the RX does a very commendable job almost all the time. What happened is not their fualt, but perhaps they could have done more to monitoring of operations.
Just my thoughts. Doesn't mean much now.
What can (should) the RX do in hindsight?
1. Any referal monies received from PanAm from posters listing RX of the referal should be placed in a pool and refunded, pro-rata to those players. Why ? RX received the benefit from this transaction with ZERO risk or cost of service. This was unearned profit at the expense of the players.
2. Advertising dollars received less the costs involved to originate the advertising (this includes employee time) and cost to place the ads on the RX site (technology, time, live lines) should be identified and provided back to RX posters. Why ? Sites that are deemed worthy to be advertisers onthe RX are assumed by the players to have some degree of due dilligence having been perfromed up front and some monitoring on an ongoing basis. Otherwise we would expect every site in the yahoo directory to be here.
I think the RX does a very commendable job almost all the time. What happened is not their fualt, but perhaps they could have done more to monitoring of operations.
Just my thoughts. Doesn't mean much now.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seymour:
Panam turning into a scam is not Shrink's fault - however, he made Panam - they would have been nobodies without his hyping - remember him and Krack going to Panama - what a complete bunch of shi t.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally agree w/ your statement.
their trip kind of reminds me of the Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels' characters heading out to Aspen in that 1994 classic Dumb and Dumber.
No, I'm not blaming Shrink for this. I fell for his hype. He over hyped PanAm like it was the best book in the world. He got me. Did PanAm pay him extra to do overhype their book? Maybe. Only he knows. Again, I'm not blaming him or anyone else. I was a sucker and got pulled into this scam, just like many others.
In the future, I'll try to avoid making such a huge mistake.
If PanAm, doesn't pay up, at least I hope they stay open a while and I can scalp the rest
of my money out.
Panam turning into a scam is not Shrink's fault - however, he made Panam - they would have been nobodies without his hyping - remember him and Krack going to Panama - what a complete bunch of shi t.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally agree w/ your statement.
their trip kind of reminds me of the Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels' characters heading out to Aspen in that 1994 classic Dumb and Dumber.
No, I'm not blaming Shrink for this. I fell for his hype. He over hyped PanAm like it was the best book in the world. He got me. Did PanAm pay him extra to do overhype their book? Maybe. Only he knows. Again, I'm not blaming him or anyone else. I was a sucker and got pulled into this scam, just like many others.
In the future, I'll try to avoid making such a huge mistake.
If PanAm, doesn't pay up, at least I hope they stay open a while and I can scalp the rest
of my money out.
I'm with ya Red. I too was a dumb dumb f*ck for buying into the hype. And the reason the whole bond issue pisses me off is that if it had just been hype about the "stand-up guys" involved I never would have bought into it, but I was led to believe that there was government-enforced protection for the players - which clearly there was not. It would be nice to see Ken say "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I didn't do my homework on the bond. I just took my friends' word for it." However all we get is "You'll have to ask PanAm about it, I really don't know." - very irritating.
