San Jose .....yes Everfresh is a loser ...not an American citizen, but a loser. I really don't like one American death....one is too many .....but war is war .....people die. I wish we would give the children and woman and any decent people a chance to get out and then carpet bomb the whole freakin place and pound it with Daisy Cutters. Our death toll is still low compared to other conflicts ...we will prevail .....we could do it in a more ruthless way and save more American soldiers lives ..but we are too nice.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SanJose:
What a wonderful thread this is, really nice. Here we have a number of left wingers EXCUSING and DEFENDING the practice of using innocent women and children as human shields. Whether you are for or against the war, for you f*cking scumbags to excuse and defend this practice is incredible. This shows the true nature of your anti-war sentiment. You people are even worse than I thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Xpanda doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
What a wonderful thread this is, really nice. Here we have a number of left wingers EXCUSING and DEFENDING the practice of using innocent women and children as human shields. Whether you are for or against the war, for you f*cking scumbags to excuse and defend this practice is incredible. This shows the true nature of your anti-war sentiment. You people are even worse than I thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Xpanda doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
I don't have a problem with what, exactly? This thread was started by a statement that isn't remotely corroborrated. Show me a link from a reliable source, and then perhaps I'll comment on the subject matter. For now, I have only reiterated my position on the origins of this war, and stated my opposition to using the word terrorists to sweepingly describe anyone who tries to resist the US occupation.
Whatever. Just to be sure I wasn't completely wrong, and that perhaps there was this big 'women and children as human shields' story that somehow I had missed over the past few weeks, I went into google, did a search for 'human shields' AND 'Iraq.'
<removed comments>
Edited to amend: found two sources that are quoting one American soldier that said this is what he saw. If true, it's horrible. If not, it's slanderous. Links are helpful if discussions are to be taken seriously, for future reference.
<removed comments>
Edited to amend: found two sources that are quoting one American soldier that said this is what he saw. If true, it's horrible. If not, it's slanderous. Links are helpful if discussions are to be taken seriously, for future reference.
Its looking more like 'nam every day over there.
How to do a delayed mortar attack.
"Marines recalled how one resistance unit put ice in a mortar tube and then pumped the mortar down it. The ice melted and the round was fired after they had made their getaway."
-----------------------------------------
Falluja fighters dent US morale
Friday 30 April 2004, 17:33 Makka Time, 14:33 GMT
The fighters have mastered the art of attacking occupation
Under cover of darkness, US Marine snipers hunting the fighters of Falluja have spent a long night on Iraq's desert sand, emerging with little but frustration.
"We were on some very exposed ground and we didn't get anyone," said an exhausted Lance Corporal Migel Nunez, 22, of Elgin, Texas.
It was their tenth ambush mission in Iraq, none of which killed or captured a fighter near the city, site of a weeks-long standoff with resistance fighters who the US occupation forces say include Saddam Hussein loyalists and foreign Muslim fighters.
For weeks US Marines operating near the city have been searching houses, hunting suspected fighters and setting up ambush positions deep in enemy territory.
Few results
But the operations have yielded few tangible results and despite their high-tech weapons and draconian discipline, US Marines are struggling against resourceful resistance fighters with no clear leadership, structure or supply lines.
"It is just impossible to tell them apart. They can't aim very well and they don't have lots of weapons but they are resourceful and smart. They are geting better"
Peter Johnson,
Lance Corporal
Marines say the fighters have mastered the art of attacking them and then melting away in villages where it is impossible to distinguish between fighters and civilians.
"They fire their AK-47s from their homes, walk out the back door and then actually walk up and shake hands with American soldiers when the fighting is over," said Lance Corporal Peter Johnson, 20, of Wheaton, Illinois.
Signs of activity
That reality is especially troubling for Marines who had hoped to launch an offensive in besieged Falluja but have instead been searching for resistance fighters in nearby villages along roads infested with bombs.
So far they have seen signs of activity only in hamlets where assault rifles are hidden in wheat fields, while they listen to air strikes and explosions around Falluja in the distance.
Some Marines have begun
questioning their own tactics
Some Marines have begun questioning their own tactics. Many complain they alert their enemies long before they enter villages by travelling in noisy armoured vehicles.
But commanders say moving in small groups is far too risky in a land where everyone from farmers to soda shop owners could be guerrilla supporters or fighters.
Overnight on Thursday, the sniper unit attached to Golf Company returned to a village they left just hours earlier, hoping to ambush fighters who might have returned.
As soon as their noisy armoured vehicle approached, every household in one hamlet turned off its lights and then switched them on again when they left, an apparent signal to fighters.
'They know everything'
"The problem is they know everything about us. They hear us coming, they know what vehicles we ride in and calculate how many in each vehicle," said Private First Class Joseph France, 19, of Batesville, Indiana.
"They hear us coming, they know what vehicles we ride in and calculate how many in each vehicle"
Joseph France,
Private First Class
"We know nothing about them. We don't know who they are. They know how to surprise us and they are resourceful with their weapons and know how to escape."
Marines recalled how one resistance unit put ice in a mortar tube and then pumped the mortar down it. The ice melted and the round was fired after they made their getaway.
The eagerness to kill fighters showed in a recent skirmish when Marines entering a village spotted three men running as they approached. They pursued and fired on the men, killing one, wounding and capturing another.
Marines said the men fired on them. A senior officer said they had no weapons, but that with shots coming in the men were legitimate targets because they ran.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FD57CF75-62E8-4C43-BF2D-2D0F0F89437B.htm
------------------------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> they had no weapons, but that with shots coming in the men were legitimate targets because they ran.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Reminds me of that film 'Full metal jacket.'
"Anyone who runs is a VC.
Anyone who stands still, is a well disciplined VC."
How to do a delayed mortar attack.
"Marines recalled how one resistance unit put ice in a mortar tube and then pumped the mortar down it. The ice melted and the round was fired after they had made their getaway."
-----------------------------------------
Falluja fighters dent US morale
Friday 30 April 2004, 17:33 Makka Time, 14:33 GMT
The fighters have mastered the art of attacking occupation
Under cover of darkness, US Marine snipers hunting the fighters of Falluja have spent a long night on Iraq's desert sand, emerging with little but frustration.
"We were on some very exposed ground and we didn't get anyone," said an exhausted Lance Corporal Migel Nunez, 22, of Elgin, Texas.
It was their tenth ambush mission in Iraq, none of which killed or captured a fighter near the city, site of a weeks-long standoff with resistance fighters who the US occupation forces say include Saddam Hussein loyalists and foreign Muslim fighters.
For weeks US Marines operating near the city have been searching houses, hunting suspected fighters and setting up ambush positions deep in enemy territory.
Few results
But the operations have yielded few tangible results and despite their high-tech weapons and draconian discipline, US Marines are struggling against resourceful resistance fighters with no clear leadership, structure or supply lines.
"It is just impossible to tell them apart. They can't aim very well and they don't have lots of weapons but they are resourceful and smart. They are geting better"
Peter Johnson,
Lance Corporal
Marines say the fighters have mastered the art of attacking them and then melting away in villages where it is impossible to distinguish between fighters and civilians.
"They fire their AK-47s from their homes, walk out the back door and then actually walk up and shake hands with American soldiers when the fighting is over," said Lance Corporal Peter Johnson, 20, of Wheaton, Illinois.
Signs of activity
That reality is especially troubling for Marines who had hoped to launch an offensive in besieged Falluja but have instead been searching for resistance fighters in nearby villages along roads infested with bombs.
So far they have seen signs of activity only in hamlets where assault rifles are hidden in wheat fields, while they listen to air strikes and explosions around Falluja in the distance.
Some Marines have begun
questioning their own tactics
Some Marines have begun questioning their own tactics. Many complain they alert their enemies long before they enter villages by travelling in noisy armoured vehicles.
But commanders say moving in small groups is far too risky in a land where everyone from farmers to soda shop owners could be guerrilla supporters or fighters.
Overnight on Thursday, the sniper unit attached to Golf Company returned to a village they left just hours earlier, hoping to ambush fighters who might have returned.
As soon as their noisy armoured vehicle approached, every household in one hamlet turned off its lights and then switched them on again when they left, an apparent signal to fighters.
'They know everything'
"The problem is they know everything about us. They hear us coming, they know what vehicles we ride in and calculate how many in each vehicle," said Private First Class Joseph France, 19, of Batesville, Indiana.
"They hear us coming, they know what vehicles we ride in and calculate how many in each vehicle"
Joseph France,
Private First Class
"We know nothing about them. We don't know who they are. They know how to surprise us and they are resourceful with their weapons and know how to escape."
Marines recalled how one resistance unit put ice in a mortar tube and then pumped the mortar down it. The ice melted and the round was fired after they made their getaway.
The eagerness to kill fighters showed in a recent skirmish when Marines entering a village spotted three men running as they approached. They pursued and fired on the men, killing one, wounding and capturing another.
Marines said the men fired on them. A senior officer said they had no weapons, but that with shots coming in the men were legitimate targets because they ran.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FD57CF75-62E8-4C43-BF2D-2D0F0F89437B.htm
------------------------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> they had no weapons, but that with shots coming in the men were legitimate targets because they ran.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Reminds me of that film 'Full metal jacket.'
"Anyone who runs is a VC.
Anyone who stands still, is a well disciplined VC."
