-SLIM- Soccer picks for the Gold Cup...

JackDee · Jul 12, 2003

"I was quite surprised with some of the players left off the Mexico squad considering the US had to take players off club games and for the most part came up with a good side while all Mexican players are on vacation and some players I would have expected to be there are not. "

mexico players left off HAD to be let off because most are competing in euro leagues, which right now are in preparation time, and besides that if some are indeed on vacation the us club games must be the least competitive on the globe, well maybe on the same level with jamaica, let's face it guys u.s. soccer is an oxymoron, there's no world league here after our own sport (aka bball, baseball), it's the rest of the world competing who are far, far more talented. A lower division argentinian team could easily take care of bussiness with a u.s. champions, frankly u.s. soccer is an oxymoron, or at least a non sequitor.

WildBill · Jul 12, 2003

Are you kidding me JackDee? Keep believing that if you want but the US has the best team in CONCACAF and the differential is growing. You are right about the MLS teams being weak, but that is merely because they get to spend next to nothing on their teams with a ridiculously low salary cap. This forces, for good reasons, talented players to go to Europe and they are doing better each year. McBride went to England on loan and scored about 20 minutes into his first game and did a great job for Everton in a limited amount of time there, not an easy feat for a forward who has to acclimate to the guys serving him the ball. Friedel was regarded as the best goalie in England last year, which Jamaican player has done that? The best US goalie in the MLS is going to play for Manchester United next year, ever hear of them??? Donovan could easily start on just about any team in Europe but the MLS and US Soccer decided they had to keep a couple guys here or lose all credibility, but its not in doubt that in a year or two he will be a star for someone that plays on that world stage, Mathis if he can stay healthy probably is headed there as well. And the US has a bunch of great players in the pipeline, most world experts regard our under 20 talent to be maybe the 4th or 5th best in the world right now. The days of the world laughing at the US national team are over, the pipeline is strong and our best players are slowly working their ways into starting roles for European teams, while a few of our players stay back to represent the MLS which is purely a developmental league and has no intentions at this time of being a rival to even the Mexican league. It gives young players from many countries a chance to develop their games and allows older players a chance at an easy gig to end out their careers. It remains an important piece of the puzzle of development as most of the world still greatly limits the number of international players and without it many players would get little opportunity to get better.

As for Mexico, who are you kidding? They have only have a couple guys playing in Europe, do you even know who they are? I sure do and I follow the Mexican league very closely, the guys they aren't using that I refer to are Mexican league players and their season will not start up again for about 3 weeks. And their best European players ARE on this squad. How come you didn't know this Jack? Are you like most Europeans and just assume you know better than any American about this sport and will just wave us off whenever we comment on it?

JackDee · Jul 13, 2003

alright, point by point...

1."You are right about the MLS teams being weak, but that is merely because they get to spend next to nothing on their teams with a ridiculously low salary cap." That's a fallacy, it's no ones problem that the salary cap is low, so i am not wrong here, it is low, and they are sub par teams, where's the argument.

2."This forces, for good reasons, talented players to go to Europe and they are doing better each year." Wrong here too, name more than 20 u.s. players in europe competing for a top 5 major league team, fvcking nigeria or egypt has got more players there, only one i can remember is langdon donovan or whatever.

3. "McBride went to England on loan and scored about 20 minutes into his first game " Βill, i both like and respect you as a poster, but that speaks volumes of your ignorance in terms of soccer, scoring 20 minutes into the games means shit, i ve never, never, in my soccer gambling life heard about such a stat, stick to what you know best, having an opinion and a good one on a lot of things, does not mean you can or should have on everything, stick to what you know you are embarassing yourself with such non soccer statements.

4." I sure do and I follow the Mexican league very closely, the guys they aren't using that I refer to are Mexican league players and their season will not start up again for about 3 weeks. And their best European players ARE on this squad. How come you didn't know this Jack? "
Do i have to be following every single country's national team on every single unimportant cup, do you? And btw, i seriously doubt the best euro players are in, esp. with the euro leagues just started prep.

Fact of the matter is, right now the u.s. in terms of soccer is rock bottom in terms of population/success ratio, rock bottom there with china, the only place in the world to challenge them, sorry for that man, soccer is another sport, a world sport, people like me who are seasones soccer spectators and players for more than 20 years consider any u.s. attempts at soccer as frankly laughable, stick to the baseball and bball, which oh wait, none of the rest of the world really to give a fvck about, but that's not the point, i am intentionally busting your balls here, fact of the matter is that the u.s. has got a long long way before they get any respect for their football, righ now though like it or not they are the laughing stock of the rest of the world. Sad, but true.

WildBill · Jul 13, 2003

Whatever Jack, you are a freakin moron who never has anything positive to say, especially about anything American. The world can see that just reading your almost Grantt like posts in the politics board. And this post is a real good one, full of nothing but "Wild Bill your an idiot replies". Where are your facts here? "US is the laughing stock of the rest of the world"...hmm, number 9 in the FIFA rankings isn't exactly laughing stock, but I know I can already see your response "Anyone that reads the FIFA's rankings is a moron and shows their lack of any intelligence"

To the readers, all this stuff here is Jack thinks the US is worthless and will think that until the day he dies. Even these points here have nothing to back them up except Jack's typical negative opinions. So like I say pick on me, pick on Nover, pick on Bush, but Jack you would stun me the moment you finally say something nice about something, ANYTHING!

JackDee · Jul 13, 2003

i like it how you dont answer to any of the numbered points i made, 1, 2, 3, 4.

i also like how you say: " And this post is a real good one, full of nothing but "Wild Bill your an idiot replies". " while i clearly state that: "Βill, i both like and respect you as a poster, "

moreover i like to lose much respect for you for a multitude of reasons, amongst others how you mention me "pick on Nover" revealing your agenda in a very rare circumstance as if nover was an icon of americanism.

I also like how you fail to notice any positive remark i ve made about the states just because i am outspoken on my criticism on imperialist, super power tacticts of the u.s. leadership.

i also like your politician-esque adress to the "readers" of this forum which is nothing but a slander about my posting persona, equating bush with nover, my posting persona with negativism, and offering a blatant case of vast generalizations, for what, for saying that the u.s. soccer team is sub par, for saying that it's not your high point in sports, didnt i also say that baseball is not ours either or did you miss that? What do you want me to say, that the u.s. excels in soccer, they dont, they are the worst national team per population ratio together with china for a fact, do you want me in your peculiar americanism to bow down and say you are not, you are, why are you even arguing this one, we europians never argued we are good at baseball, although you chose to call your league the "world series".

And then you resort to calling me a moron, a sign of loss or nerve here, why is that, you made a point, which was not right, so what, move on.

WildBill · Jul 13, 2003

Do we gotta make up a chart to prove there probably are worst teams out there than the US in soccer "success per capita" or whatever stupid point you are trying to make with that. I still don't get the point of all that, I never equated the US with world power, I just made the assertion that I feel confident they will win this particular tournament because they brought many of their best players and I feel the other teams that could challenge for the title haven't. And then you have to go out and insult the team calling them a "disgrace". Whatever, that is a clear shot at me. As for Nover, that is just the latest thing you have done. I mean putting out stupid comments about how you are going to pay him not write, how about if I make a stupid comment about paying you Jack not to have a rude thought? Bet the price would be rather high. But ok, you are right. Just would be nice Jack if next time we are talking about a subject, say the Gold Cup, you contribute to the postings instead of just continue to use it for your endless anti-American diatribe.

WalkofLife · Jul 15, 2003

I have to agree with WildBill here, JackDee. If you look at the way soccer has been developing in the U.S., you will find out the US national soccer team has reached the TOP 10 Elite IN THE WORLD in a little bit over a decade; right now the U.S. national soccer team is currently ranked as #9. If you look back in time, you will see how soccer was a sport for little girls in the US when the World Cup took place there in 1994. From there on, the growth factor when it comes to understanding the game, the developement of strategy and athletic performance of the players has been EXPONENTIAL.

Check this out:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Taken from FIFA.com:
Ranking as of 25 June 2003
1 Brazil
2 France
3 Spain
4 Argentina
5 Netherlands
6 Germany
7 Turkey
8 England
9 United States
10 Czech Republic
11 Italy
12 Mexico
13 Denmark
14 Ireland Republic
15 Portugal
16 Cameroon
17 Belgium
18 Costa Rica
18 Sweden
20 Paraguay
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a little bit over 10 years of having created a professional league, the U.S. has become the best team of CONCACAF; better than Mexico, country that presumes to have a rich trajectory and tradition in this sport. The U.S. national is also ranked above ITALY, which national team has been WORLD CHAMPIONS in the past.

What will happen within the next 20 years in the world of soccer? The U.S. is very likely to be a respected contender of the world championship, that'd be my educated guess. And even then, the history soccer in the U.S. will barely be in an adolescent phase.

You also need to consider the following factors:
<LI>You have insinuated there are cultures that have known the sport for generations already. Well, many people from these countries with a rich history of soccer are now emigrating to the US. By the day.

<LI>Despite of the fact that the MLS is not really competitive right now due to the low salary cap, keep in mind that NIKE has just signed up a KID for a contract worth $1M. That's how it all begins.

<LI>And this is gonna sound lie BS but it's true. NUTRITION in America is improving the performance of athlete kids. They're growing taller and stronger every time.

Do not count out the US just yet. I think they have a real shot at the championship in this looney toon Gold Cup. And remember that a journey of a 1000 miles begins with 1 step.

Having spoken BS, I'd like to take advantage of the occassion to remind you all folks, I gave you some winners above. WTF is my pat in the back? Huh?

-Slim- · Jul 15, 2003

tonight

Guatemala under 2.5
Honduras under 2.5

WildBill · Jul 15, 2003

The US should certainly be the favorite or second favorite here, they get the home field all the way up until the last game and have brought a solid team with only weakness maybe being a little weak on the back 4. Keller is far and away the best in this tournament, just that alone makes them a tough team to beat. A big, whopping, extra bonus is getting Reyna back on the field, he is far and away the best player for the simple task of keeping order and holding the ball, then distributing it to the right guy. This is the one thing the US has lacked in their play and Claudio's emergence as a top notch player has pretty much tracked the national team's rise in the world's rankings.
As long as Reyna is healthy and can play the whole tournament this is the best team on the field. And winning shouldn't be much of a surprise, they are the defending champs and in that tournament they sent a far less talented team. I thought it a bit strange, Arena says he wants to win this one and didn't care about the Confed Cup. I think he should have played it the other way around, the Confed Cup was a chance to get his guys good experience playing on the road and against teams with a different style. He already knows how to set up a team to beat CONCACAF teams, just put a better goalie and a lot of speed outside and you are going to qualify, but its not such an easy task playing other teams from around the world. Oh well, I can't argue with him too much, he has been the best coach we ever had and it made me laugh and feel sorry for the Ticos when that no good Steve Sampson got the job. They couldn't find anyone better???