Should the Joe Paterno Statue Come Down in Happy Valley?

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Should the Joe Paterno Statue Come Down in Happy Valley?

  • YES

    Votes: 84 66.1%
  • NO

    Votes: 37 29.1%
  • Cant decide

    Votes: 6 4.7%

  • Total voters
    127

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I'm 44 yrs old. I grew up just outside of Philly and followed Penn State football just like every other guy in the neighborhood. The campus was three hours away, but that was "our" team. Hell, I remember waking up on Sunday mornings as a kid and skipping cartoons to watch a 30 minute Penn State football highlights show. It was clear as a kid that Penn State football was different than other programs. The football program was always represented hard work, discipline, winning with honor and a team mentality. No names of the back of the jerseys and the coach always seemed to be more concerned about character than anything else. With any due diligence and research, you can find countless stories from former players who credit Joe with making them into proper men. He changed their lives. Don't believe it? Then you don't know the history of the program. Former players loved the guy like a father. Do a little research and you will see. From Wiki, "He challenged his players to be successful both on the field and in the classroom. The slogan has since become a trademark of Penn State Football and Penn State Athletics as a whole. In 2010, the Nittany Lion football team posted a 89% graduation rate, the highest of any team ranked in the final AP Top 25, dwarfing the second highest rate of 75%, which was held by Alabama and Miami (FL)."

I transferred to PSU for my last two yrs of college and had first hand experience of living in Happy Valley. There was a lot of pride in wearing PSU memorabilia. I have always been proud of my school and I always felt as if the football program was morally well above many of the programs who seemed to be running wild. The national championship win over trash-talking Miami was of particular pride. The good guys who played by the rules won the game... overcoming the trashtalking, swaggering Hurricanes. I think much of the country (outside of Miami) felt the same way. If you are old enough to remember the game that is... 1986

During the Sandusky allegations, the trial, and ultimatley the conviction I reserved my opinion on JoePa because there was simply not enough information. Those who were speaking out against him didn't have all the facts. Those who defended him didn't have all the facts. I privately told friends and family I thought Joe was getting a bad deal and that my instinct was that he would be redeemed when all was revealed. He failed miserably of course.. as we all know now. For me and many Pennsylvanians a tremendous shock.

With all that said.. wow.. I can't really describe who disappointed I am in Joe. People love to tear down icons... it's just the way things are. I was sure I was going to have my day to post about how people shouldn't rush to conclusions and need to wait for all the facts. I never in a million years would have guessed Joe had anything to do with shielding Sandusky. It still doesn't make all that much sense to me. But the facts are out and Joe really fucking dropped the ball big time.

The only sense I can make of it is thinking that Joe's world was a lot different than any readers here. As a graduate of sociology and one who take pride in understanding groups and demographics, I am of the opinion that Joe's generation didn't publicize or talk about pedophilia. I don't think it was talked about and therefore it wasn't properly understood. The guy is from a different time - and Happy Valley is out in the middle of nowhere hidden in the mountains of PA. I think he lived in a bubble out there - perpetually living with a 1950's mentality. That mentality created a unique experience for player, students, and faculty. I think that 1950's mentality is behind his lack of action - he simply chose to try and handle a highly personal matter of a friend in a 1950's way - out of the public eye, perhaps being fooled by his old friend, Sandusky, who I am sure convinced Joe the matter wasn't what it appeared and he would correct the situation. make no mistake... I am of the opinion Joe should have known better and ... for a man who taught others about morals, this is unforgivable. 1950's mentality or not. I don't think Joe was some secretly evil guy.. and those who do are probably not familiar with the amazingly positive influence Joe had on so many people. But Joe should have known better. Nothing is more sacred than protecting children.

I think JoePa and Sandusky probably had a heart to heart talk at some point and Sandusky fooled him into thinking "it" wasn't what it appeared to be. 1950's Joe wanted to believe him and made the WRONG decision. Fck it.. I'm done now. my two cents. As for the statue? I originally voted to keep it up before the Freeh report came out. Now? The moral mystique of Joe Paterno's Happy Valley is gone. Nothing is the same. It's a memory for me. But a memory that now has Sandusky creeping around the darkened halls attacking young boys. I'll remember Joe for the good things he did for so many - but in the end.. he's just a man. Not a deity. Penn State needs to move on into a new era. Camelot is dead.
 

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Agree with all that.

To give it some context, imagine having that conversation with your 80-year-old Grandma or Grandpa. They wouldn't have a clue and nor would they want to.
 

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but in the end.. he's just a man. .

A lot of typing there....

but in the end...

HE'S A MAN WHO MADE THE WRONG CHOICES........PERIOD...END OF SENTENCE

IT IS THAT CUT and DRY......................................

SPIN WHAT YOU WILL........

GAME OVER...JO PA....
 

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I'm 44 yrs old. I grew up just outside of Philly and followed Penn State football just like every other guy in the neighborhood. The campus was three hours away, but that was "our" team. Hell, I remember waking up on Sunday mornings as a kid and skipping cartoons to watch a 30 minute Penn State football highlights show. It was clear as a kid that Penn State football was different than other programs. The football program was always represented hard work, discipline, winning with honor and a team mentality. No names of the back of the jerseys and the coach always seemed to be more concerned about character than anything else. With any due diligence and research, you can find countless stories from former players who credit Joe with making them into proper men. He changed their lives. Don't believe it? Then you don't know the history of the program. Former players loved the guy like a father. Do a little research and you will see. From Wiki, "He challenged his players to be successful both on the field and in the classroom. The slogan has since become a trademark of Penn State Football and Penn State Athletics as a whole. In 2010, the Nittany Lion football team posted a 89% graduation rate, the highest of any team ranked in the final AP Top 25, dwarfing the second highest rate of 75%, which was held by Alabama and Miami (FL)."

I transferred to PSU for my last two yrs of college and had first hand experience of living in Happy Valley. There was a lot of pride in wearing PSU memorabilia. I have always been proud of my school and I always felt as if the football program was morally well above many of the programs who seemed to be running wild. The national championship win over trash-talking Miami was of particular pride. The good guys who played by the rules won the game... overcoming the trashtalking, swaggering Hurricanes. I think much of the country (outside of Miami) felt the same way. If you are old enough to remember the game that is... 1986

During the Sandusky allegations, the trial, and ultimatley the conviction I reserved my opinion on JoePa because there was simply not enough information. Those who were speaking out against him didn't have all the facts. Those who defended him didn't have all the facts. I privately told friends and family I thought Joe was getting a bad deal and that my instinct was that he would be redeemed when all was revealed. He failed miserably of course.. as we all know now. For me and many Pennsylvanians a tremendous shock.

With all that said.. wow.. I can't really describe who disappointed I am in Joe. People love to tear down icons... it's just the way things are. I was sure I was going to have my day to post about how people shouldn't rush to conclusions and need to wait for all the facts. I never in a million years would have guessed Joe had anything to do with shielding Sandusky. It still doesn't make all that much sense to me. But the facts are out and Joe really fucking dropped the ball big time.

The only sense I can make of it is thinking that Joe's world was a lot different than any readers here. As a graduate of sociology and one who take pride in understanding groups and demographics, I am of the opinion that Joe's generation didn't publicize or talk about pedophilia. I don't think it was talked about and therefore it wasn't properly understood. The guy is from a different time - and Happy Valley is out in the middle of nowhere hidden in the mountains of PA. I think he lived in a bubble out there - perpetually living with a 1950's mentality. That mentality created a unique experience for player, students, and faculty. I think that 1950's mentality is behind his lack of action - he simply chose to try and handle a highly personal matter of a friend in a 1950's way - out of the public eye, perhaps being fooled by his old friend, Sandusky, who I am sure convinced Joe the matter wasn't what it appeared and he would correct the situation. make no mistake... I am of the opinion Joe should have known better and ... for a man who taught others about morals, this is unforgivable. 1950's mentality or not. I don't think Joe was some secretly evil guy.. and those who do are probably not familiar with the amazingly positive influence Joe had on so many people. But Joe should have known better. Nothing is more sacred than protecting children.

I think JoePa and Sandusky probably had a heart to heart talk at some point and Sandusky fooled him into thinking "it" wasn't what it appeared to be. 1950's Joe wanted to believe him and made the WRONG decision. Fck it.. I'm done now. my two cents. As for the statue? I originally voted to keep it up before the Freeh report came out. Now? The moral mystique of Joe Paterno's Happy Valley is gone. Nothing is the same. It's a memory for me. But a memory that now has Sandusky creeping around the darkened halls attacking young boys. I'll remember Joe for the good things he did for so many - but in the end.. he's just a man. Not a deity. Penn State needs to move on into a new era. Camelot is dead.

wow.
Congrats on the best post in the thread.
You could put that in the NYTimes and it would probably win an award.
I think just about everyone agrees with you accept for forum posters with names that start with E.
 

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wow.
Congrats on the best post in the thread.
You could put that in the NYTimes and it would probably win an award.
I think just about everyone agrees with you accept for forum posters with names that start with E.

Thanks dude. Lots of good posts all around. Emotional subject. Glad we live in a country where we can say what we feel. Ok.. back to watching season one of breaking bad for me..
 

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wow.
Congrats on the best post in the thread.
You could put that in the NYTimes and it would probably win an award.
I think just about everyone agrees with you accept for forum posters with names that start with E.

:):)

I agree with Chop, very nice post SoCal.
 

And if the Road Warrior says it, it must be true..
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The guy is from a different time - and Happy Valley is out in the middle of nowhere hidden in the mountains of PA. I'll remember Joe for the good things he did for so many - but in the end.. he's just a man. Not a deity.


Sorry....I don't agree with with my buddy...Choptalk


I know a FEW people that grew up in that age of turning a blind eye to this shit....and not one of them would have allowed this to go further than it did.

Joe Pa is as guilty as Sandusky......JMO
 

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He may be hard-headed and maybe unwilling to see something he doesn't want to see, but he's no douchebag. I wish everyone on this forum was as willing to calmly discuss things without falling back into second grade style name-calling. The RX would be a better place if they were.

Thank you for that comment All American. I haven't attacked anyone in this thread for their opinion and I kind of expect the same. It's a good discussion and one that everyone in American should have. This problem is obviously bigger than PSU and that is unfortunate.
 

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The bit I don't get about your argument is you must see there was a cover up by the way Paterno persuaded his superiors to deal with it in house. At that point they were covering up and in doing so were then allowing it to happen more.

He/they actually did both, even if there's a difference between the two.

VS, my argument is this...how did Paterno persuade his superiors to deal with it in house? If someone could provide that little bit of proof at some point, the argument would be over.
 

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I'm 44 yrs old. I grew up just outside of Philly and followed Penn State football just like every other guy in the neighborhood. The campus was three hours away, but that was "our" team. Hell, I remember waking up on Sunday mornings as a kid and skipping cartoons to watch a 30 minute Penn State football highlights show. It was clear as a kid that Penn State football was different than other programs. The football program was always represented hard work, discipline, winning with honor and a team mentality. No names of the back of the jerseys and the coach always seemed to be more concerned about character than anything else. With any due diligence and research, you can find countless stories from former players who credit Joe with making them into proper men. He changed their lives. Don't believe it? Then you don't know the history of the program. Former players loved the guy like a father. Do a little research and you will see. From Wiki, "He challenged his players to be successful both on the field and in the classroom. The slogan has since become a trademark of Penn State Football and Penn State Athletics as a whole. In 2010, the Nittany Lion football team posted a 89% graduation rate, the highest of any team ranked in the final AP Top 25, dwarfing the second highest rate of 75%, which was held by Alabama and Miami (FL)."

I transferred to PSU for my last two yrs of college and had first hand experience of living in Happy Valley. There was a lot of pride in wearing PSU memorabilia. I have always been proud of my school and I always felt as if the football program was morally well above many of the programs who seemed to be running wild. The national championship win over trash-talking Miami was of particular pride. The good guys who played by the rules won the game... overcoming the trashtalking, swaggering Hurricanes. I think much of the country (outside of Miami) felt the same way. If you are old enough to remember the game that is... 1986

During the Sandusky allegations, the trial, and ultimatley the conviction I reserved my opinion on JoePa because there was simply not enough information. Those who were speaking out against him didn't have all the facts. Those who defended him didn't have all the facts. I privately told friends and family I thought Joe was getting a bad deal and that my instinct was that he would be redeemed when all was revealed. He failed miserably of course.. as we all know now. For me and many Pennsylvanians a tremendous shock.

With all that said.. wow.. I can't really describe who disappointed I am in Joe. People love to tear down icons... it's just the way things are. I was sure I was going to have my day to post about how people shouldn't rush to conclusions and need to wait for all the facts. I never in a million years would have guessed Joe had anything to do with shielding Sandusky. It still doesn't make all that much sense to me. But the facts are out and Joe really fucking dropped the ball big time.

The only sense I can make of it is thinking that Joe's world was a lot different than any readers here. As a graduate of sociology and one who take pride in understanding groups and demographics, I am of the opinion that Joe's generation didn't publicize or talk about pedophilia. I don't think it was talked about and therefore it wasn't properly understood. The guy is from a different time - and Happy Valley is out in the middle of nowhere hidden in the mountains of PA. I think he lived in a bubble out there - perpetually living with a 1950's mentality. That mentality created a unique experience for player, students, and faculty. I think that 1950's mentality is behind his lack of action - he simply chose to try and handle a highly personal matter of a friend in a 1950's way - out of the public eye, perhaps being fooled by his old friend, Sandusky, who I am sure convinced Joe the matter wasn't what it appeared and he would correct the situation. make no mistake... I am of the opinion Joe should have known better and ... for a man who taught others about morals, this is unforgivable. 1950's mentality or not. I don't think Joe was some secretly evil guy.. and those who do are probably not familiar with the amazingly positive influence Joe had on so many people. But Joe should have known better. Nothing is more sacred than protecting children.

I think JoePa and Sandusky probably had a heart to heart talk at some point and Sandusky fooled him into thinking "it" wasn't what it appeared to be. 1950's Joe wanted to believe him and made the WRONG decision. Fck it.. I'm done now. my two cents. As for the statue? I originally voted to keep it up before the Freeh report came out. Now? The moral mystique of Joe Paterno's Happy Valley is gone. Nothing is the same. It's a memory for me. But a memory that now has Sandusky creeping around the darkened halls attacking young boys. I'll remember Joe for the good things he did for so many - but in the end.. he's just a man. Not a deity. Penn State needs to move on into a new era. Camelot is dead.

Damn, post of the thread. Very enlightening. Great job!
 

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wow.
Congrats on the best post in the thread.
You could put that in the NYTimes and it would probably win an award.
I think just about everyone agrees with you accept for forum posters with names that start with E.

I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this matter. I wish you'd respect mine just a bit.
 

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Sorry....I don't agree with with my buddy...Choptalk


I know a FEW people that grew up in that age of turning a blind eye to this shit....and not one of them would have allowed this to go further than it did.

Joe Pa is as guilty as Sandusky......JMO

It's cool. I understand people feel strongly about the subject and rightfully so. Let me ask you though... Do you acknowledge that aside from this matter, that Joe appeared to be a good teacher to his players? A positive influence to those kids passing through his program? Iffffffffff you acknowledge those other amazingly positive attributes the man exhibited .. isn't it a bit confusing how someone like that could make such a grave mistake? There is no "spin" here in this question, it's simply a point of interest to me. How does a guy exhibit such amazing ethics and morals throughout his career and concurrently fck up so badly? Some posters ride their emotion and suggest he was an evil guy all along. Others like myself... are scratching our heads wondering what in the F happened up there at university Park behind closed doors. I have an open mind and I am willing to consider Joe might have been a bad apple underneath a facade of honor and inegrity. I don't close my eyes to any possible realities. Shit man... hollywood couldn't write a script like this. It's too bizarre. But when I try to make sense out of why he protected Sandusky, it just doesn't compute. Just to be 100% clear... I am of the opinion that he is at fault, and unforgiveably so. But something doesn't add up. Some posters will say Joe' entire legacy was a sham. That's a pretty bold statement. I will remember Joe for all the positive things he did for the school, the community, the team.... and forever wonder how he could have F'd up so badly in the most important event of his life. Truth really is stranger than fiction sometimes.
 

And if the Road Warrior says it, it must be true..
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SoCal
I'm am not trying to say that Paterno is not a GREAT coach.... he is an amazing coach when it comes to Football....just saying that he knew about this 10+ yrs ago and turned a blind eye.
 

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Just to be 100% clear... I am of the opinion that he is at fault, and unforgiveably so. But something doesn't add up

great post........................

U type like a crazy M.F...lol

do your fingers hurt..lol

SHAME on JO PA
 

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SoCal
I'm am not trying to say that Paterno is not a GREAT coach.... he is an amazing coach when it comes to Football....just saying that he knew about this 10+ yrs ago and turned a blind eye.

The thing about it is.. he built his legacy on teaching morals and winning with honor. Honestly... I am not trying to make a case for the guy. As much as it might seem I am. I am truely baffled by the whole thing. Was he privately and evil guy out for himself and family... fuck all everyone else? Or was he really this great teacher of morals and integrity? I personally have no reason to believe he was living a lie his whole life ... so i am really f'ing confused how a man who taught so many others to live right - could have F'd up so badly. What the F happened up there? I took a stab by hypothesizing about his generations way of dealing with things. But Fck... what do I know. It's confusing as shit to me how a guy like that makes such a big mistake - some will say greed. I dunno. If it was greed then that's saying his whole life was a sham I think
 

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His whole life WAS NOT A SHAME.....

the BACK END WAS FOR SURE>>>>AND HE KNEW IT....
 
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My belief is that Paterno knew and didn't care; guaranteed that if it was one of Paterno's kids or his friends' kids he would have dealt with it much quickly and more harshly. Maybe, just maybe the whole "winning with honor" thing was a mirage and he only cared about being king-shit at Penn State.
 

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My belief is that Paterno knew and didn't care; guaranteed that if it was one of Paterno's kids or his friends' kids he would have dealt with it much quickly and more harshly. Maybe, just maybe the whole "winning with honor" thing was a mirage and he only cared about being king-shit at Penn State.

^^^ this.....Well said
 

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I think JoePa and Sandusky probably had a heart to heart talk at some point and Sandusky fooled him into thinking "it" wasn't what it appeared to be. 1950's Joe wanted to believe him and made the WRONG decision.

Paterno painted himself as "old-fashioned Joe" when it served him well, and he may well have privately talked with Sandusky at some point, but simply being "fooled" doesn't jibe with the timeline. We know that Paterno knew about the 1998 investigation and was keenly interested in how it progressed. If that were the first time Paterno learned of Sandusky's ways, talked with him then and was "fooled" at that point, it's amost understandable. But to be informed in 2001 about the shower rape, knowing what he already knew from 1998, and still do nothing -- worse than that, let the brass know he didn't want them to go to the authorities -- and STILL to allow Sandusky to bring young boys to Penn State facilities... well, it's hard to make any sort of argument that a reasonable person could still be unaware of what he had in his house.

My own opinion is that Paterno simply became too enamoured of himself. Conciously or subconciously, he saw himself as a king in his own kingdom, and saw the football program as his sole purview. He was not to be questioned. He made the rules. Keep in mind that the Sandusky case was not the first time he had stonewalled, hid or interfered with an investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...-11-22/11-22-11-Paterno-Discipline/51346682/1

In the end he went to his grave still insisting the 13 years (or more) that Jerry Sandusky was allowed to use Penn State football as a honey trap for young boys was "not a football scandal" (that's what Paterno said in his final e-mail to former players). He even took advantage of the short period before the final Sandusky affair came to light to push for an unscheduled raise for himself. Paterno certainly did some good things -- donations, assurance of a good graduation record, etc. -- but knowing what we all now know, it certainly seems that Joe Paterno's greatest concern was Joe Paterno.

Whatever happens to Penn State now -- death penalty or something less -- they really need to start a completely fresh page with the football program. There should be no holdovers from the Paterno days. Remove the statue, change the uniforms, start on a completely blank page.
 

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