Sex Gambling and Religious Beliefs..I call on Reverends "Hache" and "Blue Edwards"

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue edwards:
monkey, i seriously doubt whether God cares about the outcome of a football game. it drives me nuts when players say "God helped us win".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the most awkward interviews I've ever seen was Evander Holyfield and Jim Gray (pretty sure it was Gray).

Gray asked Holyfield about 4-5 questions, and every answer was basically "I just gotta thank God for his help."

You could tell Gray was frustrated. He finally said something like "Ok, other than God, what was the key to this fight?"
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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Blue,
You have mail.

Thanks.
 

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I just got back to this ...my power has been out all day,lol...First we get hammered with bad weather, now the ice knocks out the power...I really feel a black cloud has been hanging over me...

I would like to thank SSI,Blue and Hache in particular...I have always enjoyed their philosophical opinions and hoped they`d chime in....

So is it possible to find that happy medium? Where you can gamble and have a strong faith?
Hache- Its not the first time I have heard someone say things "change for the better" when they are following strongly God`s word...I would prefer to find that happy medium, I couldn`t imagine changing my whole life...I do feel though like I`m being taught a lesson...What really got me thinking has been this incredible losing streak and these tough beats....I have never seen anything like it, like my luck will never return...

Hache- why did you lose touch anyway? If it was all going so well?

All three of you guys are regular players from what I can tell, so do you think there`s a happy medium? I don`t think I have ever gambled on sports with the expectation of making alot of money, more for the excitement of being "plugged in" to the game... I love the topic and thank you guys for responding.
 

SSI

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its something that i think we all struggle with, as i stated before (not one is perfect here on this earth).. and on the other hand , dont beat yourself up all the time.. "God loves you just as you are, he just doesnt want you to stay that way."
 

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How is beliveing that people started out as molecules rediculous in comparison to believing in an invisible man in the sky?
 

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Journey,

I'll give you my take on the subject, although my views represent a very small minority...

I am first and foremost a Darwinist, but I do believe in a supreme being. I can call this being God, but only if the person I am talking to knows I am not talking about the Christian God which was created in "the image of man". My God looks and acts nothing like a man. He is more of an entity or a force than a living creature.

Christianity, in the way it is commonly practiced today, has many flaws which are in contradiction to Darwinian theory. This is why I am incapable of being Christian. A good illustration of this is Mother Theresa. She was awarded sainthood which means Christianity considers her a role model for others to look up to and follow. Darwinian theory on the other hand considers her behavior highly disadvantageous for the human species. Why? Because it establishes a dependence relationship between disabled or disadvantaged people and those with higher capabilities. The more able folks will not have a suitable environment to hone and develop their skills while disabled folks will see that their disablities are not so inhibiting after all. Thus, disadvantaged people will have more children than the able-bodied and the overall levels of skill, dexterity, strength, intelligence, and other qualities which have made humans the dominant species on the planet will decline. It's basically saying that we shouldn't have evolved this way so let's turn back evolution for a while and when we lose some of our skills let's evolve in a different direction.

Philosophically one can argue in favor of all this of course and those who praise and herald Mother Theresa are implicitly doing that. But I like to think strength, intelligence and skill are good things and that humans are better off if the overall levels of these qualities increase rather than decrease.

How does this tie in to gambling? Well, if the gambling involves skill (like sports betting does) then our gambling activities are a form of jousting which serves a useful purpose in that we are honing our skills. These are very complex skills which involve distinguishing between useful and meaningless data, understanding emotional factors, and recognizing which types of information lend themselves to analysis and which must be left to the realm of subjectivity. Improving such skills must certainly correlate with better survival chances both on an individual level and on the level of the entire species. Our wins and losses are our Darwinian scorecards which tell us how well our skills are developing.

If you are losing over a long period it's a sign that you have failed in your most recent tests. You can either resign yourself to the failure and say that it's the order of things and join people who believe that our skills should go backwards, or you can rest, gain strength and come back fighting with a new approach and continue your Darwinian struggle, honing your skills all the while.

It's your call. You know where I stand on the issue, but I cannot tell you where you should stand. That's something you need to decide for yourself.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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To paraphrase Santayana: Newspapers ignorant of history are condemned to reprint it. How else should we interpret the recent headline, describing Pope John Paul II's address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, "Pope Says Evolution Compatible with Faith"?

There's not much "news" there. Fifty years ago Pope Pius XII said almost the same thing in the encyclical Humani generis: "The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, insofar as it inquiries into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter."

While not exactly canonizing Darwin, Pius XII did imply that the theory of evolution isn't necessarily inimical to Christianity. Certainly he didn't reject evolution altogether. How then do we explain the big headlines when John Paul II says basically the same thing in 1996?

One answer: the alleged war between science and religion is good copy. So any chance to chronicle another fight between them is pounced on by the media. The Big Bang? That proves God's existence-so much for those infallible scientists who think they can explain everything without God. Evolution? That proves human beings come from slime-so much for those infallible theologians with their dogma about man being the image of God. Which side gets the better play depends on who appears ahead at the moment. That's why John Paul II's recent address on evolution was cast as a concession speech in many stories; a supposed acknowledgement that science was right all along.

But there's another reason for the present media hoopla: John Paul II himself. He's a living contradiction to many in the media. They see him as a dogmatic, dominating Polish patriarch on the one hand, and brilliant philosopher and cultural critic on the other. "Can the same man who put the kibosh on women priests endorse Darwin?" they wonder.

But he didn't endorse Darwin. He said that evolution, so far as it concerns man's bodily origins, is really a theological non-issue. With certain qualifications such as God's ultimate role in man's creation, the direct creation of the human soul by God and man's inherent dignity as a person, the theory of evolution needn't be seen as contrary to Christian revelation. So we're really back to Pius XII with one proviso.

John Paul II's Assumption

John Paul II apparently accepts the idea widely (but not universally) held among biologists that the scientific evidence corroborates evolution. But that hardly amounts to a papal "endorsement" of Darwin. John Paul II would be the first to admit that, when it comes to science, he's a layman. Only when a scientific hypothesis or theory impinges on theological matters does he have any special authority regarding science.

In his talk to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the pope reportedly stated that evolution is "more than a hypothesis." At first, some critics of evolution argued that the pope was mistranslated into English here. What he really said, they argued, was that "new knowledge has led to the recognition of more than one hypothesis in the theory of evolution."Even the English language edition of the Vatican's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, seemed to concur, until a corrected translation was published. John Paul II did say evolution was "more than a hypothesis," according to the paper.

In any event, it seems clear that the pope thinks evolution is supported, at least to some extent, by the evidence. Noting various discoveries and evolution's progressive acceptance by "researchers," he concluded, "The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

Perhaps John Paul II was making a subtle distinction, sometimes made by philosophers of science, between a hypothesis and a theory. A hypothesis, on this view, is simply a possible explanation of a phenomenon; a theory is an explanation with some evidential verification, usually based on testing and research. The pope appears to think there's evidence to support evolution, hence it is "more than a hypothesis."

Catholics and Evolution

Must faithful Catholics accept evolution as true? No, but they may accept it, with the proper theological qualifications in place, without contradicting their faith. Whether man's body actually evolved from a subhuman species isn't, as such, a theological issue even if, indirectly, it may have some theological implications; it is mainly a question of scientific evidence. Perhaps John Paul agrees with those who think the scientific evidence supports evolution. But Catholics, as Catholics, are not obliged to hold that scientific assessment.

In recent years the theory of evolution has been challenged by critics who contend that the scientific evidence doesn't support it. Some critics even attack the theory as a form of naturalism, the philosophical view that nature is all there is-no God, no supernatural, no transcendental order of being. The idea is that human existence can, at least in principle, be wholly explained in terms of scientific laws. Evolution, on this view, wholly accounts for human origins, in purely physical terms.

Whatever the scientific evidence for evolution, a purely naturalistic formulation of the theory won't hold up philosophically or theologically, anymore than a purely naturalistic account of human nature as it exists today will. Human beings possess spiritual souls. That means, among other things, that we have intellects and wills, neither of which can be entirely reduced to merely natural, scientific explanations without jettisoning the reliability of all human thought and human freedom. For, as C. S. Lewis and others have argued, unless at least some of our thoughts aren't explicable wholly in terms of the physical processes of the natural world, the very scientific idea of nature itself is unreliable. For it, too, would be merely the product of biochemically determined thinking. And unless at least some of our choices aren't wholly produced by the operation of purely natural, physical laws, all our choices, including moral decisions to kill, lie, cheat or steal, would be mere products of nature. We would make them because the physical, biochemical processes of the universe compel us to; we couldn't do otherwise.

Now we all think people's thoughts or decisions are at least sometimes explicable in terms of mere physical processes. When, for instance, a drunkard tells us he's seen a pink elephant, we explain it entirely in terms of alcohol's effect on his nervous system. Or when a captured loyal soldier divulges strategic secrets to the enemy under the influence of conditioning and drugs, we don't consider him a traitor. We say he was brainwashed, and explain his actions that way rather than as a free decision to betray his country.

Those who would reduce the human mind to matter- philosophical naturalists-claim that all human thoughts and decisions are similarly reducible to particular states of brain chemistry. But no naturalist really thinks all thoughts as unreliable as his theory suggests and few, we can suspect, would deny human freedom altogether. For doing so, as we have seen, would undermine science-indeed, all knowledge.

If, therefore, a particular version of evolutionary theory assumes a complete, purely natural continuity between human beings and other animals, including the emergence of the human mind from mere matter apart from any more-than natural-(or supernatural) cause, that view must be false. A scientist who claims to explain everything about man in terms of evolution winds up explaining nothing, for there is no basis for thinking anything he says about man is true. He traps his theory-not to mention himself-in a naturalistic straightjacket. He must hold that he himself theorizes as he does simply because the whole universe and its physical, biochemical laws move the molecules around in his head that way, not because he's discovered some "truth" about the way things are.

A Crucial Distinction

Obviously, John Paul II distinguishes between evolutionary theories compatible with sound philosophy and theology, and those, such as naturalism, which aren't. In his talk to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, he spoke of "theories of evolution," rather than simply the theory of evolution, to make the distinction. Believers who defend or attack evolution should make the same distinction.

When a philosophically or theology unsound version of evolution is proposed, it should be challenged on those grounds. But when a view of evolution doesn't contradict sound philosophy or theology-when it is compatible with what John Paul II calls "the truth about man"-then its validity depends on the scientific evidence. Ultimately, the evidence will either corroborate or undermine the theory. Those who accept or reject such a theory should do so on scientific, rather than philosophical or theological, grounds.

That distinction will, no doubt, displease those who think the theory of evolution not only scientifically false but theologically erroneous. Little can be said to persuade Fundamentalist Protestants otherwise. But Catholics who criticize Pope John Paul II for not condemning evolution should recall Pope Pius XII's now half-century old teaching, and avoid trying, in their anti-evolutionary fervor, to be more Catholic than the pope.

www.catholic.net
 
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Why do people care what the pope says? I went to catholic school for 2 years and (after growing up) I cannot believe that people believe this nonsense.
Yes, the invisible god that needs lots of tax free money all the time loves you, but he will kill you and send you to burn in hell if you worship these other gods.

The only time I use religion is after a bad play during a wager. I say "Je$u$ Chr|$t!!
 

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