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the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Highly doubt that chop should be good support down around 1275 .... Obviously think we get to 1200 eventually but no way that soon IMO

Fascbook down 11% now hilarious .... And good news for freedom lovers in that the fascbook model is hard to monetize ...
 

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They timed the IPO wrong. They were about 6 months too late.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Doesnt really matter it's just gonna be really difficult to monetize it ... The more and more they stick up ads and ruin the user experience... As well as the privacy issues ....

Basicially need a society of drones that is willing to hand over tons of personal information for the profit of others ...
 

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Also with fascbook it's much more in your face as the user being able to understand how you are being exploited for profit through the data mining.... And now that they public there is great pressure for them to scale it up big time ....

Got issues like employers started to look at Facebook etc ....

Linedin in IMO is more monetizable as far a the loooooong term people have the incentive of giving away information in order to get a job/make business connections and you aren't going to be broadcasting shady things you do in you personal life up there either

The google model on the other hand does its data mining much more slyly .... Like with their recent privacy update .... Basicially if you are logged into your google/gmail account and web browse you are handing them your "likes" and such with your web browsing ..... So the mining you for profit in a way that many don't know is going on ...
 

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Fascbook future IMO most tied to what they do with their money as far a acquisitions and such and if the ? billion purchase of some photo sharing company is any indication its not gonna be pretty

Their base model social media thing alone won't be a huge winner long term and I'm sure more social media sites will pop up with time which do a much better job on the privacy front ... Im not into any of tht stuff ... but I know there are ones out already... I forget the names ...
 

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Social media sites on the internet are like night clubs.
Its a trend thing.
Todays hot night club is tomorrows out of business night club.

Its a herd mentality.

it was not long ago that MYSPACE was the latest and greatest. now its a ghost town.

Facebook is one big mis step away or its competition is one great idea away from making Facebook the new Myspace.

Cyber world dominance comes much easier and quicker then B&M dominance, but it also comes crashing down much easier and quicker to.

Countless examples.
 

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Yup

Google the only guy out there that you can be confident will be around for a very long time and continue to dominate that space ... As they branch out into other areas ... They got their Facebook clone in google plus now ...

Plus zuck should know his place and let people that know what they are doing run the show at least for a while... Like google founders did ...

PR and smart aquisitions will be a huge part of Facebook going forward and he's not the man for that job

-----------

Off topic but just saw that 23% of teens are diabetic or pre diabetic up from 8% in 2009 ... Just insanity ....
 

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U.S. lets China bypass Wall Street for Treasury orders


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By Emily Flitter
NEW YORK | Mon May 21, 2012 3:35pm EDT

(Reuters) - China can now bypass Wall Street when buying U.S. government debt and go straight to the U.S. Treasury, in what is the Treasury's first-ever direct relationship with a foreign government, according to documents viewed by Reuters.

The relationship means the People's Bank of China buys U.S. debt using a different method than any other central bank in the world.

The other central banks, including the Bank of Japan, which has a large appetite for Treasuries, place orders for U.S. debt with major Wall Street banks designated by the government as primary dealers. Those dealers then bid on their behalf at Treasury auctions.

China, which holds $1.17 trillion in U.S. Treasuries, still buys some Treasuries through primary dealers, but since June 2011, that route hasn't been necessary.

The documents viewed by Reuters show the U.S. Treasury Department has given the People's Bank of China a direct computer link to its auction system, which the Chinese first used to buy two-year notes in late June 2011.

China can now participate in auctions without placing bids through primary dealers. If it wants to sell, however, it still has to go through the market.

The change was not announced publicly or in any message to primary dealers.

"Direct bidding is open to a wide range of investors, but as a matter of general policy we do not comment on individual bidders," said Matt Anderson, a Treasury Department spokesman.

While there is been no prohibition on foreign government entities bidding directly, the Treasury's accommodation of China is unique.

The Treasury's sales of U.S. debt to China have become part of a politically charged public debate about China's role as the largest exporter to the United States and also the country's largest creditor.

The privilege may help China obtain U.S. debt for a better price by keeping Wall Street's knowledge of its orders to a minimum.
Primary dealers are not allowed to charge customers money to bid on their behalf at Treasury auctions, so China isn't saving money by cutting out commission fees.

Instead, China is preserving the value of specific information about its bidding habits. By bidding directly, China prevents Wall Street banks from trying to exploit its huge presence in a given auction by driving up the price.

It is one of several courtesies provided to a buyer in a class by itself in terms of purchasing power. Although the Japanese, for example, own about $1.1 trillion of Treasuries, their purchasing has been less centralized. Buying by Japan is scattered among institutions, including pension funds, large Japanese banks and the Bank of Japan, without a single entity dominating.

Granting China a direct bidding link is not the first time Treasury has gone to great lengths to keep its largest client happy.
In 2009, when Treasury officials found China was using special deals with primary dealers to conceal its U.S. debt purchases, the Treasury changed a rule to outlaw those deals, Reuters reported last June. But at the same time it relaxed a reporting requirement to make the Chinese more comfortable with the amended rule.

Another feature of the U.S.-China business relationship is discretion: The Treasury tried to keep its motivation for the 2009 rule change under wraps, Reuters reported.

Documents dealing with China's new status as a direct bidder again demonstrate the Treasury's desire for secrecy -- in terms of Wall Street and its new direct bidding customer.

To safeguard against hackers, Treasury officials upgraded the system that allows China to access the bidding process.
Then they discussed ways to deflect questions from Wall Street traders that would arise once the auction results began revealing the undeniable presence of a foreign direct bidder.

"Most hold the view that foreign accounts only submit 'indirect bids' through primary dealers. This will likely cause significant chatter on the street and many questions will likely come our way," wrote one government official in an email viewed by Reuters.
In the email, the official suggested providing basic, general answers to questions about who can bid in Treasury actions.

"For questions more extensive or probing in nature, I think it prudent to direct them to the or Treasury public relations area," the official wrote.

The granting to China of direct bidder status may be controversial because some government officials are concerned that China has gained too much leverage over the United States through its large Treasury holdings.

For example, economist Brad Setser, who is a member of the National Economic Council and has also served on the National Security Council, has argued China's large Treasury holdings pose a national security threat.

Writing for the Council on Foreign Relations in 2009, Setser posited that China's massive U.S. debt holdings gave it power over U.S. policy via the threat of a swift, large sale of U.S. debt that could send the market into turmoil and drive up interest rates.

But Treasury officials have long maintained that U.S. debt sales to China are kept separate from politics in a business relationship that benefits both countries. The Chinese use Treasuries to house the dollars they receive from selling goods to the United States, while the U.S. government is happy to see such strong demand for its debt because it keeps interest rates low.

A spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to calls and emails seeking comment.

The United States has, however, displayed increasing anxiety about China as a cybersecurity threat. The change Treasury officials made to their direct bidding system before allowing access to China was to limit access to the system to a specially designed private network connection controlled by the Treasury.

China is among the most sensitive topics for bankers and government officials who court the country as a financial client because of its size and importance, and none would agree to comment on the record for this story.

A former debt management official at the Treasury who did not want to be identified said that as China's experience in the U.S. Treasury market has deepened over time, Chinese officials may have felt more comfortable taking the reins in the management of their holdings.

Their request to bid directly, in his view, came from a confidence that their money managers could buy U.S. debt more efficiently on their own than through Wall Street banks, which can often drive up the price of Treasuries at an auction if they know how much large clients are willing to pay. Such a practice that is not specifically illegal, though most traders would deem it unethical.

Evidence of China's growing sophistication as a money manager in the U.S. markets is clear in its expansion of operations in New York. Its money management arm, the State Administration for Foreign Exchange (commonly called SAFE), has an office in Midtown Manhattan and a seasoned chief investment officer -- former Pacific Investment Management Co derivatives head Changhong Zhu -- in Beijing.

A woman who answered the phone at SAFE's New York office said no one in the office was authorized to talk to the media.
(Editing by Martin Howell and Steve Orlofsky)
 

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There is an obvious incentive from Obama & Co to encourage China to keep US$ here, China is slowly winding down its US Treasury holding while increasing oil reserve...but who cares...Ben will come to the rescue when shit hit the fan anyway.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Eventually there will be no "rescue" snoop... In that "printing" or whatever You want to call it won't work ...

The don't fight the fed mentality is a bubble in itself IMO eventually it will pop

Who knows when
 

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Not trying to be a wiseass, serious question...

Don't you support the extended tax break?

Taxes are a straw man argument ... It's a means to divert from the true problem federal government inefficiently overspending ... And create class warfare and use tax policy for talking points in the one party divide and conquer scheme..... Plus the tax code overall is a joke as all the special interests and big money have fucked with the tax laws over the years in their favor it needs to be simplified ...

Look I understand in such a huge economy there is some role of the state and some need of taxation but it absolutely out of control today when u add up not only income tax but also has taxes, sales taxes, property taxes,taxes on bills, and all the other hidden taxes that are out there

It's my view that most of the centralized needs should be handled by the state and the federal government does a horrific job as far as efficiency of spending tax dollars

Let's take eduction for example

As a nation we spend a ridicous amount on education based on what we spend we should be #1 by a mile ... The reality we now rank 17 in math and science .... It's a complete joke .... Also centralized planning of things such as education make the populace as a whole be complacent and don't take individual responsibility for their own situation (like taking an interest in their kids education)
 

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Taxes are a straw man argument ... It's a means to divert from the true problem federal government inefficiently overspending ... And create class warfare and use tax policy for talking points in the one party divide and conquer scheme..... Plus the tax code overall is a joke as all the special interests and big money have fucked with the tax laws over the years in their favor it needs to be simplified ...

Look I understand in such a huge economy there is some role of the state and some need of taxation but it absolutely out of control today when u add up not only income tax but also has taxes, sales taxes, property taxes,taxes on bills, and all the other hidden taxes that are out there

It's my view that most of the centralized needs should be handled by the state and the federal government does a horrific job as far as efficiency of spending tax dollars

Let's take eduction for example

As a nation we spend a ridicous amount on education based on what we spend we should be #1 by a mile ... The reality we now rank 17 in math and science .... It's a complete joke .... Also centralized planning of things such as education make the populace as a whole be complacent and don't take individual responsibility for their own situation (like taking an interest in their kids education)

Yeah pretty much agree 100%...

It is laughable we have this huge debate over the top tax rate...Like 35% is pure unabridged capitalism and 39% is straight soclialism/communism and would be the stepping stone to a total welfare state. When the real issues are all the corporate welfare, bailouts, defense contractors...It really is a joke how much they have made the tax code so screwed up.

Every year you hear politicians throw around "simplify the tax codes", that is 1 of those things I just never see happening....All simplify the tax code would really mean is close loopholes for big corporations/special interests etc which is essentually a tax INCREASE....

I think the rich and their crony politicians have done a masterful job acting like doctor's, lawyer's and other highly paid professionals is where the debate lies. This isn't about taxing people who make 2-300k at all...

It is about taxing people who have 500 million and pay 15% a year after their ninja accountants get ahold of everything.

You are on the right track on the state level Tiz, but most of these states are dumber than the fed gov as sad as it sounds.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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The states are "dumb" mainly to political apathy in the populace as a whole

Theoretically the more local the money the more people will bitch and moan and have access/ a say to how these funds are spent so they are put to better use... Rather then send a bunch to Washington beuracrats ...

Our problems obviously aren't just a government issue but also a societal problem in general ... But overall the big government mantra that has been increasingly engrained in our society adds to this as well ... As peoe feel a false sense of security that somebody else is dealing with these issues and there is no need for me to personally get involved

That along with how both parents have to work to make ends meet, the breakdown of the family (liberal aided) etc etc ... These obviously are big issues with alot of moving parts and alot of different variable at play
 

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FB
lol
 

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Facebook’s continued fall has put the social network on pace to be one of the worst large U.S. IPO starts in the past five years.


Bloomberg
The social network’s much ballyhooed offering was in the midst of its second-straight day of declines, dropping as low as $30.98 today. That would have been an 18.5% drop from its IPO of $38.

The stock has recovered somewhat, recently down 3% to $33. That also marks a 13% decline from its IPO price, equal to the worst three-day start for an IPO that raised over $1 billion since 2007, according to Dealogic.

There have been 23 U.S. IPOs over that size since 2007.* Through the first three sessions, only asset-manager Och-Ziff Capital performed as poorly, losing 13% as well, according* to Dealogic. In fact, only seven of the deals ended their first three sessions in the red, the data provider says.

Facebook would have to fall further to be worst first-week performer, given Och-Ziff ended its inaugural week down 24%. Overall the 23 IPOs averaged a 15.6% gain during their first week, according to Dealogic, meaning Facebook would have to hit $44 by Thursday’s close to catch them.

Among deals that raised over $500 million since 2007, Facebook would be on pace for the fourth-worst first week, behind Och-Ziff, Orbitz Worldwide and Clearwire. (Orbitz and Clearwire both lost 17%.)

To be sure, it is only midday Tuesday and Facebook’s shares could rebound.

But for now, the most-traded IPO in history has gotten off to one of the ugliest starts in recent history.

Here are the first three days for the $1 billion-plus IPOs since 2007 via Dealogic.

 

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Market losing steam at the end of the day.
2 day winning streak in doubt.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Will be many a big up day along the way ... Acting like a bear with increasing volitility ... Yesterday's volume dropped off big time vs previous sessions when it was red everyday ... Another bearish sign ....
 

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Eventually there will be no "rescue" snoop... In that "printing" or whatever You want to call it won't work ...

The don't fight the fed mentality is a bubble in itself IMO eventually it will pop

Who knows when

It's already not working. But in theory, Ben has $3.5 t of digital $$$ on the balance sheet to flip bonds to infinity and if he wants, he could certainly print more to support the bubble. The entire system is a cluster fuck. Prolong the artificial low interest rate policy will depress fixed incomes further.....STAGFLATION or Japan lost decade here we go...........
 

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