LOL now JJ's going with Gringo's theory. Guys, I take the player's side whenever possible but if Revere had come in here with that story I would have snuffed it out in less than one second. No one, and I repeat, NO ONE, would have bought that story. It's not a scam if it has no chance of working. Again, who the hell knows, maybe that is what Revere had planned, and if so he's lucky that Man U won because he woulda been out 40 big ones.
I always find it amazing when people like JJ try to be moralistic about a business that basically has none.
Gambling is a serious business, thats why there are certain laws governing it. There are people who lose their Marriages, Homes and even their lives every day through it, but how many books worry whats happening on the other end of the line.
With the business resembling a shark pool, why should bookies have feel for recourse when bitten.
Gambling is a serious business, thats why there are certain laws governing it. There are people who lose their Marriages, Homes and even their lives every day through it, but how many books worry whats happening on the other end of the line.
With the business resembling a shark pool, why should bookies have feel for recourse when bitten.
JJgold...............duh
i think i said that Revere had this planned out as a no-lose situation no less the 20 times yeserday...
the only thing that most of the detractors Of Wsex say ....is that if the game would of lost they would of graded it a loser
but like i knew from the beginning (and evidently you do now) Wsex would not have graded it a loss (if so -500) but i say no-action
there is one thing that i cant figure out.....
Wsex tried to send e-mails notifying him of the wagers being cancelled....(bad info)
but it wasnt cancelled into the system...untill after the game....
IM0.........something prevented them from doing that on this PARTICULAR wager (80 wagers)......
if a supervisor was needed....where was he??? probably drunk off his ass somewhere......
maybe there was such a glitch in the software that this bet couldnt be cancelled until after the game?
whatever the reason the bet wasnt cancelled untill after the game...........Revere knew this couldnt be cancelled by the system
i think i said that Revere had this planned out as a no-lose situation no less the 20 times yeserday...
the only thing that most of the detractors Of Wsex say ....is that if the game would of lost they would of graded it a loser
but like i knew from the beginning (and evidently you do now) Wsex would not have graded it a loss (if so -500) but i say no-action
there is one thing that i cant figure out.....
Wsex tried to send e-mails notifying him of the wagers being cancelled....(bad info)
but it wasnt cancelled into the system...untill after the game....
IM0.........something prevented them from doing that on this PARTICULAR wager (80 wagers)......
if a supervisor was needed....where was he??? probably drunk off his ass somewhere......
maybe there was such a glitch in the software that this bet couldnt be cancelled until after the game?
whatever the reason the bet wasnt cancelled untill after the game...........Revere knew this couldnt be cancelled by the system
This subject has been worn out. It was tried appealled and reappealed. I'm a long time supported of WSEX as all know here. Why--Basic Reason No 1. is simple--I TRUST THEM! No.2. I PERSONALYY LIKE THEIR SOFTWARE. 3. Even thought I have lost, Whenever I asked for a payout IT WAS QUICK!
What I hope comes of this midnight (4am) Ride of paul REVERE14 is that WSEX fixes their software without a ajor overhaul--just a tune up.
What I hope comes of this midnight (4am) Ride of paul REVERE14 is that WSEX fixes their software without a ajor overhaul--just a tune up.
JJ, Gringo-
1) Do you KNOW if the anon IP address was the same anon IP address used by Revere in the past? (Using an anon IP address means that it all requests get masked to that one place. BUT! If Revere always used the same anon IP address, then he couldn't claim it was someone else. (And what would someone else have to gain?)
2) Do you have ANY problem with a book cancelling a winning bet AFTER the event? Be specific as to when it is okay. (The answer: 'when cancelling scammers' is not an acceptable, because it does not allow you to tell when the book is the scammer.)
3) In his "master plan", how did Revere know that WSEX would wait until after the game was a winner to cancel his bets?
Gosh, what a brilliant plan! This is really key, because if WSEX had cancelled the bets BEFORE they knew the outcome, they would have had a much stronger case. If Revere could REALLY predict and plan such a case-losing move by WSEX, then he should start his own 900-number psychic network.
There was no glitch preventing the software from cancelling the bet (and Revere could not have predicted one if there was). I doubt that Revere knew the blood-alcohol level of every supervisor or that none could reach the sportsbook for 5 hours (Steve says he got the call at 6:30 am). Did Revere plant mines or barb-wire baricades? Did the old Mission-Impossible team help him? NO, YOU PINHEADS!
The arguments you make that this was some great plan by Revere are just plain embarassing and you should be ashamed of yourselves. WSEX past-posted, Revere didn't. End-of-story.
1) Do you KNOW if the anon IP address was the same anon IP address used by Revere in the past? (Using an anon IP address means that it all requests get masked to that one place. BUT! If Revere always used the same anon IP address, then he couldn't claim it was someone else. (And what would someone else have to gain?)
2) Do you have ANY problem with a book cancelling a winning bet AFTER the event? Be specific as to when it is okay. (The answer: 'when cancelling scammers' is not an acceptable, because it does not allow you to tell when the book is the scammer.)
3) In his "master plan", how did Revere know that WSEX would wait until after the game was a winner to cancel his bets?
Gosh, what a brilliant plan! This is really key, because if WSEX had cancelled the bets BEFORE they knew the outcome, they would have had a much stronger case. If Revere could REALLY predict and plan such a case-losing move by WSEX, then he should start his own 900-number psychic network.
There was no glitch preventing the software from cancelling the bet (and Revere could not have predicted one if there was). I doubt that Revere knew the blood-alcohol level of every supervisor or that none could reach the sportsbook for 5 hours (Steve says he got the call at 6:30 am). Did Revere plant mines or barb-wire baricades? Did the old Mission-Impossible team help him? NO, YOU PINHEADS!
The arguments you make that this was some great plan by Revere are just plain embarassing and you should be ashamed of yourselves. WSEX past-posted, Revere didn't. End-of-story.
JAVA......thanks for not throwing my name along with jj and gringo........lol
i posted "the master plan" idea (though not exactly like you stated) right after, Wsex reported he gave bogus contact info..
i am willingly to concede everything for the sake of argument....
except this....i still believe
Revere made those wagers with knowledge that the worst case scenerio would be that if the game lost.....it would be no-action or at the most -500..
and yes Java, anytime somebody hits something, that as a bookmaker i dont think should happen....i AUTOMATICALLY think the worse.....
yea i am probably trying to make this out to be more of how it actually went down......
but im convinced the guy is no-good........so i wouldnt put anything past him..
i posted "the master plan" idea (though not exactly like you stated) right after, Wsex reported he gave bogus contact info..
i am willingly to concede everything for the sake of argument....
except this....i still believe
Revere made those wagers with knowledge that the worst case scenerio would be that if the game lost.....it would be no-action or at the most -500..
and yes Java, anytime somebody hits something, that as a bookmaker i dont think should happen....i AUTOMATICALLY think the worse.....
yea i am probably trying to make this out to be more of how it actually went down......
but im convinced the guy is no-good........so i wouldnt put anything past him..
Dimes-
Thanks for the concession on my points.
I want to understand your point about the "no action or at most -500". I frankly do not see how Revere could possibly argue against responsibility for the full amount (or make a claim that it wasn't him).
Reason 1) Revere spent two hours making the bets. It was not like he typed 40,000 instead of 400.
Reason 2) Revere claimed that he had bet around the $500 in the past. If true, this established the pattern and practice for both himself and WSEX. (There's a few posts floating around that quote Jay Cohen himself explaining that you have to alter the amounts of successive bets to prevent system from thinking you double-bet the same wager accidentally.)
3) This guy has 40 dimes in his account. That is a lot of postup (maybe not the biggest) but probably in the top fraction of a percent. It sounds like he has made large bets before. There are many that for only $500 it isn't worth picking up the phone. (How many big players would leave if all limits were maxed at $500.) My point is that I can't see anybody buying any argument that a player of this size intended to bet only $500.
This is a player that books are supposed to watch. For a player with this much money, you can practically dedicate an entire clerk to his business. If he is too sharp for the internet, just allow him phone bets only, so a human being can make the decision or check the lines. In all seriousness, I think it is a fatal philosophy to accept more than a dime or two over the internet, where identity concealment and multiple accounts are easiest.
I'm NOT saying Revere is a good guy or a hero. Maybe he was laying off action, maybe he scalped from sites with different line, .. whatever. I just can't think of any argument that would convince me that the guy wasn't responsible for the full amount, unless WSEX cancelled the bet BEFORE they knew the outcome of the game. So, I can't justify your belief that "Revere made those wagers with knowledge that the worst case scenerio would be that if the game lost.....it would be no-action or at the most -500..".
Thanks for the concession on my points.
I want to understand your point about the "no action or at most -500". I frankly do not see how Revere could possibly argue against responsibility for the full amount (or make a claim that it wasn't him).
Reason 1) Revere spent two hours making the bets. It was not like he typed 40,000 instead of 400.
Reason 2) Revere claimed that he had bet around the $500 in the past. If true, this established the pattern and practice for both himself and WSEX. (There's a few posts floating around that quote Jay Cohen himself explaining that you have to alter the amounts of successive bets to prevent system from thinking you double-bet the same wager accidentally.)
3) This guy has 40 dimes in his account. That is a lot of postup (maybe not the biggest) but probably in the top fraction of a percent. It sounds like he has made large bets before. There are many that for only $500 it isn't worth picking up the phone. (How many big players would leave if all limits were maxed at $500.) My point is that I can't see anybody buying any argument that a player of this size intended to bet only $500.
This is a player that books are supposed to watch. For a player with this much money, you can practically dedicate an entire clerk to his business. If he is too sharp for the internet, just allow him phone bets only, so a human being can make the decision or check the lines. In all seriousness, I think it is a fatal philosophy to accept more than a dime or two over the internet, where identity concealment and multiple accounts are easiest.
I'm NOT saying Revere is a good guy or a hero. Maybe he was laying off action, maybe he scalped from sites with different line, .. whatever. I just can't think of any argument that would convince me that the guy wasn't responsible for the full amount, unless WSEX cancelled the bet BEFORE they knew the outcome of the game. So, I can't justify your belief that "Revere made those wagers with knowledge that the worst case scenerio would be that if the game lost.....it would be no-action or at the most -500..".
Java.........this is how i see it
Revere....knew Wsex had software that could be manipulated into accepting wagers.....that otherwise wouldnt be booked as action..
books have rules on wagering..if the books limit is 10k on a game and some how im able to wager 50k.....sir you have no action on 40k...
now what if its not in the rules?? like this case......well when a book discovers it phucked up...its no action.....the phuck up in this case would be 40k on one soccer match....
wsex.....hey what the hell is this?? we dont accept this kind of action!!!
Revere made his wager in such a way...the book would make it a no-action bet..(Wsex attempted to e-mail no-action to him)
this protects him if the game loses.. and i honestly believe he knew (because i would do it and any honorable book would too)
they would do this...
if the GAME WOULD OF LOST...they would have made it no-action or gave him action on 500.....why do i say this...because thats whats supposed to be done....
if i have a new customer....and i explain the rules to him....but leave out that i dont take half-time bets on baskets......and he makes a half-time bet..and he leaves it on the voice-mail....if the game loses, i tell him that he saved some money no-action......if the game wins he can phuck me and i know he can, because he is taking advantage of my mistake..
Revere also made his wager in such a way that if the game wins.....he can claim he should be paid because Wsex should have had better software, specific rules, ect...
all he did was turn Wsex's integrity and lack of rules against them..........
hope i made some sense with this...
Revere....knew Wsex had software that could be manipulated into accepting wagers.....that otherwise wouldnt be booked as action..
books have rules on wagering..if the books limit is 10k on a game and some how im able to wager 50k.....sir you have no action on 40k...
now what if its not in the rules?? like this case......well when a book discovers it phucked up...its no action.....the phuck up in this case would be 40k on one soccer match....
wsex.....hey what the hell is this?? we dont accept this kind of action!!!
Revere made his wager in such a way...the book would make it a no-action bet..(Wsex attempted to e-mail no-action to him)
this protects him if the game loses.. and i honestly believe he knew (because i would do it and any honorable book would too)
they would do this...
if the GAME WOULD OF LOST...they would have made it no-action or gave him action on 500.....why do i say this...because thats whats supposed to be done....
if i have a new customer....and i explain the rules to him....but leave out that i dont take half-time bets on baskets......and he makes a half-time bet..and he leaves it on the voice-mail....if the game loses, i tell him that he saved some money no-action......if the game wins he can phuck me and i know he can, because he is taking advantage of my mistake..
Revere also made his wager in such a way that if the game wins.....he can claim he should be paid because Wsex should have had better software, specific rules, ect...
all he did was turn Wsex's integrity and lack of rules against them..........
hope i made some sense with this...
dime and others,
I think you're giving Revere too much credit.
I think he just wanted to place a big bet on the game and he wanted to make sure to get a price of +120. The UK bookmakers wouldn't deal with him because he's American so WSEX was the only available out. I really don't think he expected to gain by this because he must have thought there is a 95+% chance that WSEX is competent, ie. finds a way to make it no action before the start or simply accepts the bet.
To give a bookmaker $40k knowing that the book has a number of options is simply stupid. To all those who said Revere had a plan, I put the question to you: would you honestly consider doing something like this on account of the positive EV you get with it (moral considerations aside)? It's a huge negative EV play IMO and Revere was lucky as hell to get the outcome he did.
In fact, if it weren't for McIrish's post on the subject I would have suspected that the deal was for a lesser amount (like half, say) on condition that Revere announce (falsely) that he was paid in full. But with all the mods involved, I had to cancel this suspicion of mine. It seemed awfully fishy that they wanted to do the deal on the phone if they were willing to pay the whole thing. If you're going to splurge like that you might as well maximize the kudos and announce the thing publicly in dramatic style. You'd make an advertising campaign out of it to show how great a book you are. The fact that WSEX did it in a fairly low key manner made me think they probably didn't pay the full amount. But that's just suspicious ole' me. Maybe the deal was just one-on-one with Revere and even the mods were lied to!!??? OK, just speculating here...
I think you're giving Revere too much credit.
I think he just wanted to place a big bet on the game and he wanted to make sure to get a price of +120. The UK bookmakers wouldn't deal with him because he's American so WSEX was the only available out. I really don't think he expected to gain by this because he must have thought there is a 95+% chance that WSEX is competent, ie. finds a way to make it no action before the start or simply accepts the bet.
To give a bookmaker $40k knowing that the book has a number of options is simply stupid. To all those who said Revere had a plan, I put the question to you: would you honestly consider doing something like this on account of the positive EV you get with it (moral considerations aside)? It's a huge negative EV play IMO and Revere was lucky as hell to get the outcome he did.
In fact, if it weren't for McIrish's post on the subject I would have suspected that the deal was for a lesser amount (like half, say) on condition that Revere announce (falsely) that he was paid in full. But with all the mods involved, I had to cancel this suspicion of mine. It seemed awfully fishy that they wanted to do the deal on the phone if they were willing to pay the whole thing. If you're going to splurge like that you might as well maximize the kudos and announce the thing publicly in dramatic style. You'd make an advertising campaign out of it to show how great a book you are. The fact that WSEX did it in a fairly low key manner made me think they probably didn't pay the full amount. But that's just suspicious ole' me. Maybe the deal was just one-on-one with Revere and even the mods were lied to!!??? OK, just speculating here...
Java and everyone else that is still supporting revere, after the four way conversation it was quite apparent to everyone, including revere, that he was owed nothing. That is why you saw him come in here and post I will take whatever WSEX chooses to give me.
He knew he was caught, period.
WSEX didn't want to hear about it anymore. They gave the guy a $40K gift. $40K to them is like buying a value meal at McDonalds.
If you can't accept that revere was a complete thief, then you simply didn't read between the lines in his last posts.
Either way he has his crack money now. I personally know karma is a bitch. His check will get cashed ten fold. Enjoy revere.
He knew he was caught, period.
WSEX didn't want to hear about it anymore. They gave the guy a $40K gift. $40K to them is like buying a value meal at McDonalds.
If you can't accept that revere was a complete thief, then you simply didn't read between the lines in his last posts.
Either way he has his crack money now. I personally know karma is a bitch. His check will get cashed ten fold. Enjoy revere.
Gringo-
1) All of Revere's posts stated his position strongly and I don't recall him seeking any compromise less than 100% of what he bet and won. Not much between the lines there. Sounds like there is even less between your ears.
2) I think WSEX paid because they got caught past-posting and didn't have a leg to stand on.
3) Do you know that Revere uses crack? That's a pretty strong accusation that someone needs $40K in crack money. Or is this just name calling instead of having real facts to back up your arguments?
4) If you personally know Karma to be a bitch, then you must have done a lot of bad things that you are still paying for. (Backing a decision by a book to past-post will pile on more bad karma.)
1) All of Revere's posts stated his position strongly and I don't recall him seeking any compromise less than 100% of what he bet and won. Not much between the lines there. Sounds like there is even less between your ears.
2) I think WSEX paid because they got caught past-posting and didn't have a leg to stand on.
3) Do you know that Revere uses crack? That's a pretty strong accusation that someone needs $40K in crack money. Or is this just name calling instead of having real facts to back up your arguments?
4) If you personally know Karma to be a bitch, then you must have done a lot of bad things that you are still paying for. (Backing a decision by a book to past-post will pile on more bad karma.)
