Patrick McIrish and The Player's Club Scandal

Good write up Journey, good job
And I agree with what raiders says about good reasons to dislike most touts and assume they operate as scum. None the less, I do not and will not ever operate like this. Journey, I have never ever posted another play here or anywhere under any other name
Gl
Thanks for calling it as you see it
I e mailed u yday journey get back to me when u can
The RX Rules

 

I just looked at a thread started by Shrink on who's your favorite poster. In 53 posts Irish was listed twice, once by a mod. This wouldn't happen if the Rx believed that Irish tried to scam someone here.

 

Pat-

Care to tell us why you are criticizing dogball's unit play all of a sudden?

His style has been consistent through MLB and NFL. All of a sudden, you don't approve.

So tell us the real story about the Player's Club, Pat. Go on..tell us about the <stiff> books that you turned the Player's Club membership on to...

Snake Picks

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPM:
..... i do think it is wrong for someone to come to the rx and build a following, and then go tout.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks RPM. That was my original point in all this as well.

Hammy - I like you and I know you like Dog but I don't have any beef with you. Don't think I'm ignoring you, I just don't want to argue with you about this as much as I know you want to back up Dogball. I can appreciate what you are trying to do to help your buddy.


For everyone else who doesn't know the story about NAB here it is in a nutshell. I belong to a poker group. Some of the members have been getting their feet wet in playing off-shore. They wanted a recommendation for a cheap place to play, something like reduced vig as like most poker players they are cheap. At the time NAB was offering reduced vig (-105) on football and a bonus. Plus I was playing there myself at the time so I recommended them to this group.

To make a long story short the book went down. All of these people I have known for years lost their money. It made me sick to my stomach what I did. I NEVER RAN FROM IT OR BLAMED ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN MYSELF FOR MY PART IN IT! I stood up at the podium and told them the truth, McIrish made a mistake. One of the toughest things I have ever had to do. Some of these men were older and I could see the hurt and confusion in their faces when I told them. Though it was honest and not intentional I should have known better and it bothered me deeply what I did. I lost money myself but that was the least thing on my mind. I wish to this day I had the smarts to put them in a safe book like Olympic that had been around but I didn't.

Back on the board room I talked of this and asked for help on how to handle it leading up to the days of the meeting with the poker people. I even mentioned I didn't sleep for days leading up this and how shitty I felt. These were my friends and family whom trusted me that I let down. Trust me it's not a good feeling.

Well since Dogball read all about it back there as he is on the board, he knew this was a good situation for him to attack me on as he knew how bad I felt about it. "Teach me a lesson" for questioning him I suppose. I have to acknowledge that he was successful. Along the way he hoped to make himself look good and tarnish my name so people here will continue to buy his selections. Here was the first post he made about it in case anyone missed it:


HOW ARE ALL YOUR CARD ROOM BUDDIES that you helped screw over. Remember the ones that relied on you for a suggestion on where to send there "life savings? " Then the book goes down. I remember you coming in crying like the phony that you are . You put on a good show, but we all know that you got your money and BONUS out of there before they went under. I remember how you were going to change the world then, but I dont hear anything else about it now. Guess the payoff was ok.


Like I said, he knew how to use the info he had to his advantage. I guess by hurting others it was just a "bonus" for him. I don't even have any idea what the latest accussation is about with the Players Club. I guess he hopes something will stick eventually. I posted about that recently in the board room and now here it is as well. Trust me not only am I not running it in any manner there is ZERO dollars involved in it. Never was. It was an idea I helped develop because of this thing above where players got stiffed. I had a hand in players losing their money and wanted to do something about it instead of doing nothing but whine about it. I treat people the way they treat me and I wouldn't take a dollar that was not mine. I don't believe in it, never have and never will. You will get 10X back in bad karma over and above what you took that was not yours when you do wrong. Anyway I can see now with this post what this guy is all about. He will do ANYTHING to discredit anyone what says anything negative about him, he will stop at nothing.

I want to sincerely thank the people who have written me e-mails after he made that post above. Also the one's who have posted here to show some support. Judge for yourself what is the truth, I'm not trying to sell you all anything, he is. I have posted here in all forums for free trying to help myself and others make some money for quite a while. I never considered selling my opinions. It was nice to hear that some tout who is trying to sell his plays here and discredit me won't ruin the relationship I have made here with many many people here who I deeply respect.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask here or write me privately. I have been here long before this guy came and will be here long after he leaves. I don't expect his attacks to end but I hope all can at least understand why I have no respect for this guy. Some of those men who lost their money were in the 70's and 80's and I mentioned how it was a shame to see them lose money at that age, that's why he made fun of them losing their "life savings" in other posts. Anyway thanks for listening.

[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on 02-15-03 at 09:10 PM.]

 

[elmer9]

dogball is the one on trial here,not decent folk.he is the one who is beggin 4 money.

 

I know Elmer, it's the old go on the "offensive" game plan. I know what he is doing but I felt the NAB accussation was serious enough for me to respond to. Not often I am called a thief and a phony by a tout. No one I know will ever believe I would fleece my friends for any amount of money, just wanted to show the background on how this guy thinks. He will have others bring up allegations as this goes on, just wanted to show what kind of guy this is we are dealing with.

Here's another classy example of how Dogball operates if you disagree with him. After our man Raiders did something Dog didn't agree to here's his next post towards him. Go after the man's mother........

--------------------------------------------


dogball
big game specialist

Wrom: JYFMY
Registered: 03-13-02
Posts: 2734
A few important facts you need to know about Raiders
72001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys, this is one of the most unbeliveable things I
have ever had happen to me. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE
WITH RAIDERS 72001 Mother. As you know, Raiders
expressed concern here yesterday about me posting the
phone number Raiders sent to me via e mail. The number
he sent me is a cell phone that only has a beeper
attached. I tryed it many times and finally got a call
from his mother tonight asking why I was beeping her
son.
As it turns out, there is a good reason Raiders will
not commit to the challenge I proposed , he is a 16
year old high school kid. His mother told me he got
the crap kicked out of him by a kid in school because
he did not pay the guy who runs the football POOL in
high school.
I explained how Raiders was obsessed with me and she
warned me that her son is gay and often sends nude
pictures of himself to older men who he tries to get
to pay him for sexual favors to pay off his gambling
debts.
This is a sad story and I regret to be the one to
report it to you. None the less, It explains Raiders
conduct, obsession with me and attempt to defraud me
out of TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS by having me Post up with
him. LOL Then claiming that I would not agree to the
terms of the challenge which I proposed. LOL again
Anyway, I expect some level of bashing associated with
my recent business venture, I am grateful for all
those who expressed interest and supported me. I will
unfortunatley not be able to participate in these
childish games with 16 year old members of man boy
lover clubs. We all know that I am here to win money,
that I have never been distracted by these games, and
that I will only respond to people capable of adult
interaction, as I always have.
I must warn Raiders, although his mom told me she is
taking his computer, if he insists on sending me
further e mails, I will have no choice but to refer
all of his e mails to the proper authorities, as His
mom insist I do.
posted 12-25-02 11:57 PM

------------------------------------------------------



The sad thing is when Raiders accepted his challenge Dog then backed out and went on the attack. Oh boy.....

I know I have other insults coming from him and Hammy. Just giving you his track record. Thanks for the support, I have to get back to work now for tomorrow's games. Good luck men.

 

Pat-

Yesterday, you began a thread criticizing dog's choice of units.

These are the same units that he played during MLB and NFL. You were silent on the issue until dog began receiving $$$ for his picks--this appears to be what is bothering you.

I guess that you lack the backbone to just say "I hate anyone who gets money for their picks." Your criticism of his units is clearly unfounded, and it is no surprise that you refuse to engage any farther in the discussion that you began.

Snake Picks

 

Pat-

So you sold a group of 70-80 year old guys on the idea of posting up with a stiff book? Oh wait, they were begging you to refer them to a reduced vig book.

So you expect us to believe that you didn't make a dime in referral bonus?

Snake Picks

 

Ham - that is incorrect. I have been speaking out on multi-unit plays since I've been here! In fact long before Dog was ever here. When he was winning I brought it up several times! That was one of the reasons he was so angry at me before. I'm not sure where you have been. Let me repeat this in case you missed it....

As a guideline you should bet between 1, 1.5 or 2% of your bankroll on any one play. For the day you should never expose more than 8% of your bankroll in action! For most the first step in beating this sport is lasting long enough to do so. Money management is as much a part of this as picking winners. Some would argue more so. For a guy who is trying to make a living selling his plays not to recognize this and practice it is not a good sign.

Touts should be telling their customers not only tips on who they think will win but tips on how to be smart with their money. Playing 70 units in the NBA on a Friday night is not smart with your money. It's foolish. I'm not sure you or he really understands what a unit is. A unit can be any amount of money. Each person's unit can be different from another persons, it should be 1% of your bankroll. If your bankroll for betting sports is $100,000 than your unit is $1000. If your bankroll is $1000 than your unit plays should be $10. If your bankroll is $1000 and you are playing 70 units like Dog says than that is $700 in action. You won't last long if that's how you bet. Remember you only want to bet 1 or 2% of your bankroll on any play, no more than 8% in action on any one day. To win you must first survive.

The point is all Dog (and every other tout) needs to do is give their pick. To say this is a 70 unit plays is nothing more than trying to manufacture paper wins to impress potential customers. When in fact is sends the exact opposite message, it tells most this guys doesn't understand the most basic of premise of being a professional. If a guy loses at 70 units he can post 150 units the next day. If they lose than go to 300 units the next day and so on until he wins. That's not what touts should be doing or anyone else. They are selling their picks or should be, not boasting of huge monopoly money wins. It's pointless and though designed to fool posters with huge $$$$ wins it will only fool the most basic of newbies in this business. We had someone here lose all year in college hoops with his plays, all year! Then with the season winding down started pressing. He was up to 150 units I think when he finally won a game. Then this tout's mesage was "there's another sport that I have made money in. I win in everything". LOL.

Do you notice when TRK tracks people he puts the column with everyone's play based on 1 unit plays! He allows a 3rd column but that one is pointless. Anyone can keep pressing until they win a game, that is what I speak out against. Rely on your picks to do your talking, not a slick marketing plan and huge unit presses to fool folks on what your record is. There is no reason for a guy to do that unless he is tryng to represent something that is not true.

Does any of this make sense? If not I tried. Certainly Dog isn't the only one who does this, I have spoken agaisnt this for some time. When a new guy comes in and uses big unit plays if you watch a lot of times they have designs on being a tout one day. They are here to build a following and make their business off the posters that are here. Exactly what Dog did. Not long after he got here I understood why he was here from the go. To steal players and open up a tout business. Did any of this make sense?

I know you are trying to run interfernce for him but what he did was wrong Hammy. He is really trying to decieve people around here and throw around baseless alllegations. I know he's a lawyer (at least so he claims) and you are going to school to be one but please don't attack me because he wants you to. We have always had a good understanding with each other. You know I wouldn't steal anyone's money, I post this about unit plays to help others. Not for any other reason. I hope he doesn't force you to attack me to remain his friend but if it happens that way I understand. Peace.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hamneggs:
Pat-

So you sold a group of 70-80 year old guys on the idea of posting up with a stiff book? Oh wait, they were begging you to refer them to a reduced vig book.

So you expect us to believe that you didn't make a dime in referral bonus?

http://www.mbpicks.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had to try and hoped you really wanted some answers in this. I understand your position and don't blame you.

Good luck in school Ham. Peace.

 

Pat- Are You so self serving and righteous that you can not believe one person called you out on your flawed logic. I did not ever ask Hammy or anyone to say one word on my behalf. I am well aware that I will be in this pretty much by myself with guys who know me and like me occassionally chiming in a fair word.
Hammy can and I am sure will confirm that I did not ask him to start this thread or speak on my behalf. You can only spin it so much before it gets ridiciolus. I am not sure if you even believe what you say about me at this point , but I am not proud of having to say the things about you that I have. This is a shame

The RX Rules

 

>>>....... but I am not proud of having to say the things about you that I have. This is a shame...<<<<<


Dog - so you believe I knew NAB was going to be a stiff book and led my family and friends there to be fleeced or not? What things did you "have" to say? You lost me now......

 

[elmer9]

dogball,you are such a phony any 5 year old would call you out.

 

>>>>>If you are some stupid that you can not get even that correct, how could you be a watchdog for the players? And what exactly are you doing to watch the players? Aside from the bonus you got from a certain book for refeering all your card room buddies to them prior to them going down. I know as a fact you knew about that, If you get the sharp plays, as you told me you do in an e mail I am looking at, THEN you knew that book was falling also. What can of watch dog are you that steals from his retired card buddies?<<<<<<


Here's another calling me a thief. Did you "have" to post this one as well?

You say here you have "FACTS" I knew a book was going down. You knew from being on the board it almost killed me to tell those folks NAB went out of business. I lost my own money but what was worse was telling the people who trusted me I let them down. The fact you knew that and came out here to attack me with it is almost an unspeakable cheap shot. Wow. You have ZERO credibility here with anyone that can think for themself. You came here and stole your business from this place.

You are pathetic even by tout standards. Why you think calling me a thief will help you scam the posters here into sending you money is beyond me Mr Lawyer.

 

not w

 

HYPOTHETICAL

Pat, suppose that a group of 10 posters approach you and offer to pay you $10,000 each for your MLB plays. You realize that you could use that money to pay back the Player's Club membership. Do you accept the offer?

Snake Picks