OVERRATED COACH LIST

[GreenDoberman]

I left out WCC, but I'll rate them in order since that is one of my conferences I follow closely.

1. Dick Davey (Santa Clara)- gets most out of limited talent. If he was a little better recruiter, Broncos could compete with Zags.

2. Mark Few (Gonzaga)- what can you say about a coach that has kept this minnow at the level they are at for 5 plus years?

3. Steve Aggers (LMU)-program was at absolute rock-bottom when he took over, they are now feared at home, and respectable on the road. Proven winner at EWU as well.

4. Randy Bennett (St. Mary's)- like LMU, Gaels were at rock bottom when he took over. Has program in right direction and is bringing the right kids to Moraga.

5. Phil Matthews (USF)-I'm on the fence here. Sometimes Matthews looks like a genius, other times a goof. Has been getting too many program kids, disrupting continuity. If he sacrifices a little physical talent for mental acumen and work ethic in recruiting, he might be able to duplicate his success in the JUCOs.

6. Brad Holland (USD)- I think Holland stinks, as do the majority of head coaches that have UCLA lineage (see below). Unfortunately, he had 5 seniors and two monsters in the middle last year and the home court to win the conference title. This boosted his stock, but I see through that facade.

7. Michael Holton (Portland)- another UCLAn who is walking into a dead-end job, and will likely leave it in the same condition. Portland has improved, but not at the pace LMU and SMC has. Losing close to Oregon every year won't cut it Coach H.

8. Paul Westphal (Pepperdine)- It's so obvious his heart is not in it. It's like he's biding his time for Phil Jackson to quit. THe injury bug has crushed Waves, but his talent over brains recruiting and roll the ball out floor tactics don't get it done.

 

[LowTide]

Mark Gottfried is in the lower echelon of the SEC,although he can recruit.Alabama ran a junior high offense last year.As for why they are looking better this year,everybody attributes their success to the presence of Tom Asbury,who previously coached Pepperdine and Kansas State(successfully,I may add).His specialty is coaching big men and he has junked the high post offense that was so easy to defend last year.

 

[snowtime]

Here's my ranking of Big 10 coaches:

1. Izzo,proven recruiter gets the best of them despite having a young team this season due chemistry problems. IMO,he's between 1 and 3 spot.

2. Bo Ryan, the best X and O coach in this league by taken a bunch of underachievers to be the toughest team in the conference as Wisky usually wins at Madison.

3. Gene Keady,like it or not, he missed Bobby not being in Bloomington. He's the ambassdor of Big Ten but his recruiting has been suspect but one of the hardest practice coach in the conference.

4. Jim O'Brien, a good player's coach but his current health issue may force him to early retirement due to his damaged vocal cords.

5. Bruce Weber, a Keady protege who had done a remarkable job at Southern Illinois. The waiting has got him landed at Champaign but can he keep the program in the right direction ala Self? He hasn't coach a Big Ten game yet despite my opinion of him.

Six. Dan Monson, the king of Gonzaga coaches but he's below Mark Few at the current totem pole. He's a quota hire for cleaning up the academic fraud mess but will the Humphries will be next Kevin McHale for the Gophers who badly needs a consistant winner.

7. Mike Davis, I'm an IU fan but not a fan of his NBA coaching style. He's not a good gameday coach but with good personality. He's got lucky by happened to be Bloomington while Knight got the raw deal. His long term contract was the evidence of 2002 NCAA Tournament run but it was more of Jared Jeffries coaching on the floor than MD.

8. Tommy Amaker, a Dukie SOB on a quota hire.

9. Bill Carmody, a Pete Carrol protege, win an impressive resume at Princeton but he's having a tough job to fill at Northwestern. Hard to recruit some good basketball players with the Ivy League brains.

10. Steve Alford, Tom Davis shouldn't be let go few years ago at Iowa City. Alford had a great college playing career for Coach Knight but has paid his coaching dues in a small college level with impressive stint at SW Missouri State. His coaching problem at Iowa had started with his father,Sam Alford, being his head assitant and director of basketball operations. I didn't like the way of his handling with his players with spotty off/court records,especially with Paul Pierce.

11. Ed Who? , Penn State is the worst Big Ten basketball team along with Northwestern. I never seen the guy coached on TV for me give him a opinion.

 

[winkyduck]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Funk Monkey:
Come on. If Coach K has such great talent, why aren't there more Duke players in the NBA?

Unless I'm forgetting somebody, Grant Hill is the only NBA All-Star from Duke in the last...20 years? 30 years?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

***coach k has great COLLEGE talent. who can dispute laettner i one of the best college players ever! and bobby hurley is one of the best COLLEGE PG ever. this is just like the heisman trophy - it goes to the best college player - not best potential nfl guy. coach k has the best COLLEGE talent.

as for other coaches - i did leave off westphal - oops! watching him coach it is very apparent his heart isn't in it.

also - green is 100% with stew merrill. this guy is one of the best coaches most people have never heard of. he gets mediocre talent and tunrs them into a solid team. in the recent NCAAs - he outcoached roy williams (ooops - while on the list of overrated coaches how could i leave him out - he might be #1 on the list - with the talent he had at KS - and for the most part never making it to the F4 is a disgrace) in the opening game so badly it was embarrassing. if utah state made that 3 @ the buzzer (and i was happy they didn't since i had the UNDER in that game and if the game goes to OT - i lose that bet) they might knock off "rock chalk jayhawk" in the 1st round stew could have been KS. i know most people have never seen merrill coach - but seeing him coach against fullerton - the guy is one of the best coaches in america!

rail - i am going to the lmu @ fullerton game tuesday, 12/30. if you are gonna be there - say hello. i'll be behind the csuf bench. you should recall what i look like but i will be sitting next to a short, middle agedm overweight asian guy - so look for me.

 

[ThePoet]

Most overrated caoch: Mike Davis -- Indiana.
Best coach: Rick Majerus - Utah; (Bill Self 2nd)
Best program to send kid to: Duke
Best new coach: Jamie Dixon - Pitt

 

[PaulV]

Great topic guys. In fact, as part of the first day of March Madness when a group of us college hoop junkies annually get together, we traditionally induct a new coach into what we refer to as the "Raveling Hall of Fame," short for a basketball cesspool of overrated coaches whose talented teams regularly take the pike during March Madness, named after its charter member, George Raveling. Inductees over the years have included:

Jim Harrick*

Lou Henson

Norm Stewart

Gene Keady (I see where he's listed by some as being a great coach, but what has he ever won???)

Steve Lappas

Lute Olson*

Larry Finch

Jerry Greene

Digger Phelps (a 2003 Veteran's committee inductee)

* victim of "the Harrick burp" which states that, in any given year, a team can defy all odds and win the national title in spite of its coach.

Any suggestions for the selection committee to consider this year are most welcome, though this thread has already provided for some good names.

 

[snowtime]

PaulV,

Please add the following to the list:
1.Dale Brown,the choking tiger bait

2.Billy Donovan ,can't win big one in the football school.

3. Bill "Chicken$hit SOB" Frieder

4. Mike "I can't coach" Davis

5. Quin Snyder

six. Rick Barnes

7. Bob Huggins "Thanks to KMart's broken leg"

 

[SaltyBrine]

You guys crack me up. Certainly some coaches are better than others, but many of the names on these lists are clear indications the author(s) are clueless.

And by the way, Railbird's personal notes about some of the coaches are pretty outrageous and are good examples of the garbage that proliferates these forums far too frequently. (See the Nover article on the homepage.)

 

[PaulV]

Salty, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

I've been following college hoops for 25 years and, believe me, this author is not clueless about the sport. I simply go by what I see, and what I have seen from the coaches on my list is more tank jobs with talented teams than should be the norm. From a bettors standpoint, I can also tell you that I've won a lot more than I've lost by going against them over the years come tourney time. Name any of them and I can defend the selection.

 

[Fingerlakes]

Worst :
Steve Lappas

Over rated :
John Calipari
Rick Barnes
Roy Williams
Bob Huggins

The very best :
John Chaney
Bob Knight
No one has done more with less than these two. They only recruiy certain types of players and often play with less talent than their opponents. Their system never changes and in my opinion that is why they continue to win.

Under rated :
Jim Barron
Skip Prosser
Tim Welch
Jim Boeheim ( I sat behind his wife at the Dome the other night and she is sooo hot. I give him extra points for this. }

 

[stolidog]

How the hell did Boeheim get that hot wife anyway? I guess Carmelo was feeding her the baloney pony while he hid in the other bedroom reading Bobby Knight's 'How to Coach' books.

 

[GreenDoberman]

Snowtime,
good analysis on the Big Ten, I pretty much agree with you, although I would put O' Brien a couple of notches lower. I agree Carmody has struggled and that he is no Pete Carril.

 

[Railbird]

Agree Obrien a couple nothces lower, I know a kid who played for him at BC, didnt think much of him as a person or a coach.

 

[WilmasPimp]

For those who posted that Lute Olson is an overrated coach, check out every game where Arizona was an underdog in the 3 seasons since they lost to Duke in the title game:

12/9/03 vs. Texas (+2.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
1/25/03 @ Kansas (+5) WIN OUTRIGHT
1/2/03 @ Oregon (+2) WIN OUTRIGHT
3/21/03 vs. Oklahoma (+3.5) LOSS
3/9/02 vs. USC (+3.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
2/16/02 @ USC (+6) LOSS, COVERED
2/14/02 @ UCLA (+3.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
2/2/02 @ Stanford (+8.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
1/31/02 @ Cal (+4.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
12/22/01 @ Oregon (+1.5) LOSS
12/15/01 @ Michigan State (+1) LOSS
12/4/01 vs. Illinois (+2.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
11/17/01 @ Texas (+2) WIN OUTRIGHT
11/9/01 vs. Florida (+6.5) WIN OUTRIGHT
11/8/01 vs. Maryland (+11) WIN OUTRIGHT

That's right, in the last 15 games that Arizona has been a Dog, Lute's won the game freaking outright 11 times.

And the run in '97 was no fluke. #1 Kansas, #1 North Carolina, and #1 Kentucky were each STACKED with future NBA stars and legendary coaches. Lute beat them all.

Mike Montgomery is the best coach in the nation, IMO.

 

[SaltyBrine]

Paul...actually your list was one clearly thought out, and I would agree with your assessments. My comments were primarily directed to...well, I guess you're astute enough to figure that out on your own.

 

[Railbird]

Wilma,

Nice post, that 1997 team played a half court style, and Miles Simon and Bibby were both well coached before they got to Arizona, Miles Simon was basically the coach of that team not Lute Olsen, Miles would dictate the pace of play and never turned the ball over, he new when to go and when to pull out, and that team had some good post players Davidson,Bramblet and JAson Terry off the bench. That was the most talented team that year I could not believe they got 7 vs Kentucky.

That underdog streak you posted is interesting, but it seems most of the outright wins were aginst other weak coaches that run and gun like Lavin,Bibby,Kent,Gary Williams, and Donovan.


It was fun to watch Arizona lose as a 10 point favorite in Anaheim the next year in the tourney to Hanno Mottola, And Dolelac, or when they lost as a 13 point favorite to Santa Clara in the 1st round. Yes this years team is talented, but they are collectivley a stupid team and will for sure take a dump this MArch to a less talented team in the early or mid rounds.

 

[GreenDoberman]

Add Barry Collier, to the list of Underrated coaches, after I saw his Nebraska squad half-court to death Minnesota last night. Huskers will lose a ton of games in the Big 12, but it's not because Collier can't coach.