Only respond if you have seen blackfish

[Enfuego]

For the exact same reason I am for equality.

I care about the well being of other living things outside of myself.


Bad post.

You're missing the point.

You told FZ in that thread he shouldn't care about the issue of gay marriage because it doesn't impact his life in any way. Sea world training whales has zero impact on your life. Using the same logic you used in the gay marriage thread, I ask again, if it doesn't impact your life, why do you care?

 

[GoBlue34]

They found a gene where dolphins like to be in small spaces

 

[SECplayer]

I saw the film and didn't find any of the revelations all that ground breaking. Call me crazy but I wasn't all that surprised to find out that there have been a number of trainers killed by orcas. It's an incredibly dangerous job. You're dealing with an animal the size of a big SUV.

I'm sure if someone did a similar documentary on lions kept in captivity over the course of 30/40 years, there would have been a similar number of attacks and fatalities. Or any other animals (tiger, elephant, etc...).

But I don't think you can use that to justify shutting down every zoo in the world.

 

[JustinCruise]

I saw the film and didn't find any of the revelations all that ground breaking. Call me crazy but I wasn't all that surprised to find out that there have been a number of trainers killed by orcas. It's an incredibly dangerous job. You're dealing with an animal the size of a big SUV.

I'm sure if someone did a similar documentary on lions kept in captivity over the course of 30/40 years, there would have been a similar number of attacks and fatalities. Or any other animals (tiger, elephant, etc...).

But I don't think you can use that to justify shutting down every zoo in the world.

Orcas mental capacity and emotional intelligence is far more advanced than a lion, elephant etc... possibly even humans

 

[JustinCruise]

You're missing the point.

You told FZ in that thread he shouldn't care about the issue of gay marriage because it doesn't impact his life in any way. Sea world training whales has zero impact on your life. Using the same logic you used in the gay marriage thread, I ask again, if it doesn't impact your life, why do you care?

You're a pretty sharp guy enfuego but your argument here makes no sense

If there are humans/animals suffering just because it doesn't impact your life directly is no reason to not care about it.

 

[Enfuego]

You're a pretty sharp guy enfuego but your argument here makes no sense

If there are humans/animals suffering just because it doesn't impact your life directly is no reason to not care about it.

Well then, your argument that gay marriage doesn't impact you so it's a non issue really holds no water right? You can't have it both ways.

And for the record, I don't care if homos get married nor am I really fond of putting wild animals in pens.

 

[JustinCruise]

Well then, your argument that gay marriage doesn't impact you so it's a non issue really holds no water right? You can't have it both ways.

And for the record, I don't care if homos get married nor am I really fond of putting wild animals in pens.

:think2:

When did I say gay marriage is a non issue?


I have been pretty clear that I see it as a big human rights issue.


You may be referring to my question to Zit, where I asked him how does two men/women being married HARM his life (which he never did answer btw). You may want to go back and look because in no way is what you are saying accurate of my stance on the issue. I don't want to argue but I do care about my stance being represented correctly.

 

[GoBlue34]

:think2:

When did I say gay marriage is a non issue?


I have been pretty clear that I see it as a big human rights issue.


You may be referring to my question to Zit, where I asked him how does two men/women being married HARM his life (which he never did answer btw). You may want to go back and look because in no way is what you are saying accurate of my stance on the issue. I don't want to argue but I do care about my stance being represented correctly.

Then defend your stance where you said they have found a gay gene

 

[SECplayer]

Orcas mental capacity and emotional intelligence is far more advanced than a lion, elephant etc... possibly even humans

So I assume you are a vegetarian?

 

[Enfuego]

:think2:

When did I say gay marriage is a non issue?


I have been pretty clear that I see it as a big human rights issue.


You may be referring to my question to Zit, where I asked him how does two men/women being married HARM his life (which he never did answer btw). You may want to go back and look because in no way is what you are saying accurate of my stance on the issue. I don't want to argue but I do care about my stance being represented correctly.

And you're making my point for me. I ask you...

How does a bunch of whales swimming in a pool in Florida harm your life?

 

[JustinCruise]

And you're making my point for me. I ask you...

How does a bunch of whales swimming in a pool in Florida harm your life?

Enfuego, the logic you are using to make this connection is not sound. I'll try to explain it again. Either I am not doing a good job or you are unbelievably stubborn. Perhaps both.

There is a very big difference that you are missing here.

Gay marriage does not harm those involved or bystanders. If tom and jack get married (the parties involved), it does not harm them or you (the bystander). No one is hurt in this situation. So in this case a live and let live approach seems valid.

Now consider whales in captivity. You are correct that orcas in captivity does not harm my life (the bystander), but it harms the orcas greatly (the parties involved).Therefore someone IS hurt in this situation. Whales in captivity harms those involved but not bystanders

 

[Enfuego]

Enfuego, the logic you are using to make this connection is not sound. I'll try to explain it again. Either I am not doing a good job or you are unbelievably stubborn. Perhaps both.

There is a very big difference that you are missing here.

Gay marriage does not harm those involved or bystanders. If tom and jack get married (the parties involved), it does not harm them or you (the bystander). No one is hurt in this situation. So in this case a live and let live approach seems valid.

Now consider whales in captivity. You are correct that orcas in captivity does not harm my life (the bystander), but it harms the orcas greatly (the parties involved).Therefore someone IS hurt in this situation. Whales in captivity harms those involved but not bystanders

Do you have a link to a scientific study that shows a whale in captivity is in fact harmed?

 

[JustinCruise]

Do you have a link to a scientific study that shows a whale in captivity is in fact harmed?

There is scientific evidence that their brains are capable of higher emotional intelligence needs than humans. There is clear cut evidence that they spend their entire lives with their families. There is also no documented case of a orca harming a human in the wild.

In captivity they float alone in a tiny tank, unable to fulfill their complex emotional needs, and have harmed and killed trainers.

So yes there is evidence that captivity harms the whales. Much much more than i listed here.

At some point you just have to give it up man and admit you were wrong. You take every issue to the extreme no matter what the subject matter.

 

[Jstack34]

Do you have a link to a scientific study that shows a whale in captivity is in fact harmed?

The history of captive orcas is a sad one, with many stillbirths and premature deaths. Out of more than 190 whales held in captivity since the 1960s, only a handful ever lived into their 30s. The average amount of time orcas survived in captivity has increased with each decade as the humans in charge grew more skilled at caring for captive whales. A 2010 study found that the 52 whales who died in captivity after 1994 lived an average of 10 years and 10 months in captivity, whereas the average time in captivity for the 42 whales still alive at that time was 15 years and nine months.


http://www.alternet.org/environment/are-parks-seaworld-harming-or-helping-killer-whales

I assume you didnt watch the documentary

 

[Enfuego]

There is scientific evidence that their brains are capable of higher emotional intelligence needs than humans. There is clear cut evidence that they spend their entire lives with their families. There is also no documented case of a orca harming a human in the wild.

In captivity they float alone in a tiny tank, unable to fulfill their complex emotional needs, and have harmed and killed trainers.

So yes there is evidence that captivity harms the whales. Much much more than i listed here.

At some point you just have to give it up man and admit you were wrong. You take every issue to the extreme no matter what the subject matter.

What is being taken to the extreme? We're having a conversation. Thought that's what the forum was all about.

I don't want your opinion, want some fact based evidence if you have it. I'm asking because I don't know.

 

[Kruser6]

I agree it is tough to think about keeping animals in captivity and while this documentary focuses on Whales, take a trip to the zoo - Have you ever seen the little cages the lion, tigers, bears, all of those animals are kept in? What about birds people keep at home in cages? How about my neighbors dog who hasn't been out of it's kennel in 4 years. What do you we propose? To shut down every zoo in America? I don't understand why they felt the need to publicly single out SeaWorld.

On another note, I hope every person involved in making the show is a vegetarian.

 

[JustinCruise]

I agree it is tough to think about keeping animals in captivity and while this documentary focuses on Whales, take a trip to the zoo - Have you ever seen the little cages the lion, tigers, bears, all of those animals are kept in? What about birds people keep at home in cages? How about my neighbors dog who hasn't been out of it's kennel in 4 years. What do you we propose? To shut down every zoo in America? I don't understand why they felt the need to publicly single out SeaWorld.

On another note, I hope every person involved in making the show is a vegetarian.

I don't visit Zoo's.

When I have children I will not take them to zoo's because I don't want them to think thats ok

 

[Enfuego]

I don't visit Zoo's.

When I have children I will not take them to zoo's because I don't want them to think thats ok

Come on dude, don't be that guy. Let your kids enjoy the animals.

 

[shane-o-mac]

What bullshit. According to my in depth research on wiki, there are 75 captive killer whales in the world currently, 23 of which are housed at the 3 SeaWorlds. There is an estimate that there are 50,000 killer whales in the world. I have no way to back this up, but I'm guessing SeaWorld has done more for those 50,000 killer whales through fundraising and awareness than the harm that is done upon the 23. How many RXers have seen a killer whale? How many RXers have been whale watching? My guess is most killer whales have been seen by the general population at SeaWorld. SeaWorld is a necessary evil. Without places like these, how many kids would want to grow up to save the whales and shit like that? Everyone talks about the horrible conditions these whales face, but no one talks about the awareness for conservation efforts these aquariums generate through the public coming in contact with these creatures.

 

[KillaRSox]

What's next?

You going to chain yourself to some tree about to be cut down?...