(Old Topic, dated 08-16-2002) General Warning about the industry

Quote: "The US government are worse than the mob."

History shows them to be one in the same my friend.

Additionally, the US government employs more felons then any other hiring entity.

Simple Game

 

[grinin]

Products go through a fairly standard life cycle. And I think we can view internet gambling as a "product".

I don't recall the exact wording from Marketing 101 but the Initially stage is R&D/Startup where there are a very few companies providing the product being introduced to consumers. If it becomes popular with consumers the groundbreaking companies have a incredible head start.

The next stage of a successful product (obviously a lot of new ideas fail to get past the startup stage) is a rapid growth of consumers and companies marketing to them.

Later stages are characterized by a consolidation of the industry into a few larger companies with the smaller companies being driven out of the marketplace or acquired by the larger.

Internet gambling is still a growth industry:

"The volume of gambling dollars is expected to double over the next three years"

Of course companies still fail even when the product is highly desired by consumers. However, there will be even more companies prosper during the growth stage of the product life cycle.

I don't have a problem investing money in offshore sportsbooks, and that is exactly the way I think of my balances, as an investment. However, as with any investment it is my responsibility to do due diligence when choosing where to invest. I therefore keep my balances based on the degree of risk I perceive with the company that is holding my money. The majority of my funds are with a select few companies. However because of additional choices such as overnight lines, line differentiation from the norm, unique lines/props I also have balances with a few second tier or even lower books. I just choose to keep the total balances at these books at no more than 20% of my total bankroll. As in any investment strategy diversification is the key.

It is always a RISK vs REWARD analysis.
Come on! Lets, get a clue, we are all gamblers.

 

[PanchoSanza]

I predict none of the following will go under between now and the end of football.

I would be willing to bet anyone 5 figures that they don't.

CRIS
Canbet
Olympic
WWTS
Olympic
WSEX
Sportingbet

If any of these do, I am done gambling offshore and so will a whole lot of others.

 

[Geekinstein]

Joe, fight on brother. You are on the right side of this issue.

I too have been getting these indicators and thus my campaign...

 

[Payton]

<<<<< Funny thing though, none of them asked why I was clearing out my account.>>>>>>>

Joe, why would a good book ask or care? It is afterall your money?

 

[wantitall4moi]

I did know that the Station's 'syndicate' was doing this, but as you say you have to be instate, so that defeats the purpose. I was of course speaking in wide spread terms. As in allowing bettors from everywhere to place bets with them.

I am also aware that the odds, especially in baseball, are non comparitive. I think I mentioned that somehwere. Also the futures odds are shitty. As well as the props, for those that like them, are very limited.

But you hit the nail right on the head when you put up that laundry list...are all those things good or bad? I think they are most definately a mix there. While some seem great, they might actually lead to problems down the road.

It is like buying a Mercedes. You pay more up front. but if you get in a crash you odds of surviving are a lot greater than if you were driving a Geo Metro. You get what you pay for.

Offshore addresses everything for every type of bettor, that is no argument.

 

[Stampede66]

Unless you have facts (specific facts at that) you are just stirring the pot. Objective information about who is in trouble and why they are in trouble is always welcome, but of course it never comes across that way. Why is this? Because it is impossible to tell who really is in trouble (until it is very late) and these accusations may very well turn out just to be slander. This environment (posting forum) is too political (but very much needed) just to take at face value, we must read carefully and make our own assessments.

Joe, you sound like Biff here....Offer me something concrete and I might listen, otherwise you are throwing darts in the dark.

 

[basesAREloaded]

So long as the human brain emits endorphines, most books will have the dough-ray-me to pay.


Regards


/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

 

How on earth could you possibley rate Joe in there with Biff?
Don't you know that it si very hard for people to just put the finger on some shop.
Joe was only trying to give everyone a headsup and not to leave to big of a balance anywhere offshore, which is very good advice as far as i am concerned.
Sometimes you must just take something for face value and not try to dig to deeply into something like this. This is just my take on the whole offshore industry at this time.
I don't really know of any guarntees in life anyway.
I think Joe knows more than he is telling also, but rumors are running like wildfire all over at this time.

 

San Jose,

Please forgive me for not addressing your question earlier, it is a valid one and one that should strike the cornerstone of any gambling posting forum.

If your source has proven to be accurate in the past then you should post.

My advice would be to do so in the form of questions.

Also keep in mind that your source may have heard something in confidence so a little vagueness would not hurt (open-ended quesitons work best).

For example, let us assume that you heard that Book X could not meet their payroll and employees were told that if they told anyone they would be fired.

A good title to a thread would be "Rumor about Book X" and good content would be "I heard a rumor that they were having financial problems, anybody know anything?"

There should be nothing wrong with asking such a question.

How not to do it would be a thread titled "Book X cannot meet payroll/threatens employees not to tell". The reason being that you are hearing a rumor, regardless of the reliability of the source, it is still a rumor and if it turns out to be untrue or only partially true, the books rep is unfairly trashed.

**********

payton,

"Joe, why would a good book ask or care? It is afterall your money?"

Customer service and customer retention.

Maybe I needed the money to buy Wheaties. Maybe I did not like the color scheme of their website. Maybe I was treated poorly (real or perceived) by a clerk. Maybe I was pissed because I could not get a wager in due to web problems on their side. Maybe...

Point being that they have no clue.

All they know is that Account 1111 now has a 0 balance.

**********

As an aside, the role of the US Government did not enter my thinking at all.

Personally, I think they are much more concerned about terrorists and Iraq than bookies in the Bahamas.

Though if they can catch a few while enforcing the new money laundering rules... well what the hell.

Joe

 

[Geekinstein]

Great topic, deserves a bump...

 

[Revere14]

I don't have any information beyond what is readily available (on "watchdog" sites, etc.) but the general state of the economy seems to be poor. In the event of a baseball strike I think books (along with everyone else) will suffer tremendously.

Nevertheless I am still keeping sizeable balances at top tier books.

Revere14

 

[SHACK]

Shrink, I must admit I agree with every point that you have made here. Every new industry consolidates and many don't make it. Look at the auto companies in the big boom-over 500 auto companies, more recently all the internet companies that didn't make it. The auto and internet are here to stay. You just have fewer, albeit stronger companies that strive. There is lots of money to be made in this industry, and now with the advent of the internet, cost structures are being reduced. Good companies will make it, hopefully the crooks will burn in hell, sooner rather than later.

 

[SanJose]

JOE,

THANKS FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION WITH AN INTELLIGENT RESPONSE. MY QUESTION WAS AIMED AT EVERYONE, BUT THANKS ANYWAY FOR TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER.

WHILE I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU POSTED, IM NOT POSTING THE INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN BY MY FRIEND IN COSTA RICA. BASED ON THE POSTS MADE BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC HERE, I DONT THINK THEYD LIKE WHAT I HAD TO SAY, AND WOULD RIGHTFULLY ASK WHERES MY PROOF.

FOR SOME STRANGE REASON, MANY POSTERS HERE TAKE ALMOST A PERVERTED SMILE WHEN NEWS OF ONE BOOK GOING UNDER COMES OUT, BUT SAY SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT SEVERAL BOOKS AT ONCE AND YOURE THE SECOND COMING OF BIFF. SO ALL I'LL SAY IS THAT I CANT SPEAK TO BOOKS IN ANTIGUA OR CURACAO, BUT A GUY I KNOW IN THE BUSINESS IN COSTA RICA TELLS ME THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL BIG TO MEDIUM SHOPS IN BIG TROUBLE THERE. END OF STORY, YOU GUYS ARE ON YOUR OWN.

 

[okay]

I respect you and admire you for having the guts! And kudos to russ for saying so too! You are missed here, but I think Peep thinks he will do just fine with the football forum, so what the hell: Joe, enjoy your wife and kids and good luck to you!

 

[PanchoSanza]

that makes sense.....

 

[Stampede66]

This is a complicated issue not because of whether or not Joe has a valid point or not, but mainly because of the venue it is being discussed in (this forum).

The sportsbooks pay the bills around here, therefore any unfounded or speculative information or opinions about these places is going to meet heavy resistance. Simple as that.

Joe - I have always liked your posting style and I commend you for taking a stand on something you believe in. But on the other hand, if you want people to hear what you are saying, you'd better offer something more than pure speculation.

BTW - I am sorry that I compared you to Biff
.....This is something that needs discussed, even if it is based on opinion rather than facts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

 

have to agree with PANCHO and the GENERAL

OLY and WWTS are all you need...

 

Let me get this straight some posters have heard a rumour from a friend who knows a insider that says the Industry is in trouble. No one can find anyone willing to mention the names or the books. joe is entitled to his opinion, but without any facts it's all speculation. It's no secret some books are getting stronger and others are getting weaker WOW! what a suprise. Are people suppose to believe that when a book becomes weaker they will fold up and stiff all the players? Is it possible that some of the books rumoured will simply be bought up by the stronger books? What these smaller books have NO value? Perspective customers, mailing lists hold no value?

Lets all of us yank our money out of the smaller outs and only use three. What a great idea! no shopping opportunites, No scalping, no hedging, just the choice of Texas A&M -7, Texas A&M -7, and Texas A&M -7 GREAT!

 

[JerkPatrol]

What a total tool you are for making a post like this.

No wonder they fired your asss..