My top 10 players in the NBA.

[JakeT.]

You are aware they made the conference finals in the superior conference this year? If they couldn't "mask him defensively" they would've lost to the Clippers in rd 2 because they were 1 of the best offensive teams in the NBA. Also Harden not being a good defender is 2013-2014, it's common knowledge he was pretty solid this year despite having to carry an insane offensive workload. When your 2nd best player is Trevor Ariza for most of the year, your D tends to suffer.

They made the conference finals and then were completely blown apart... They were outclassed by Curry and Klay and it was all because Beverley wasn't around. When you are getting dominated because you don't have a lesser known PG it speaks volumes about Harden's ability to defend. His defense isn't as bad as that funny YouTube video but he's still below average because he has no energy left on that end of the court after using it all on offense.

Houston was loaded this year IMO. Obviously injuries hurt them but Ariza is one of the best SFs in basketball and perhaps the top defender at that position. Howard is a monster on both ends. Two legit NBA-level starters at PF. I don't like Smith but he'll start for a lot of teams. Beverley might be the top PG defender in the NBA. Corey Brewer could start for a lot of teams.

The Rockets had so many strong defenders going that they were able to mask Harden's weaknesses and let him do his thing offensively. When Beverley went down they were not able to do that and it opened up holes for opponents. To me I'd rather have a complete player. To each their own.

 

[PatsFan1283]

They made the conference finals and then were completely blown apart... They were outclassed by Curry and Klay and it was all because Beverley wasn't around. When you are getting dominated because you don't have a lesser known PG it speaks volumes about Harden's ability to defend. His defense isn't as bad as that funny YouTube video but he's still below average because he has no energy left on that end of the court after using it all on offense.

Houston was loaded this year IMO. Obviously injuries hurt them but Ariza is one of the best SFs in basketball and perhaps the top defender at that position. Howard is a monster on both ends. Two legit NBA-level starters at PF. I don't like Smith but he'll start for a lot of teams. Beverley might be the top PG defender in the NBA. Corey Brewer could start for a lot of teams.

The Rockets had so many strong defenders going that they were able to mask Harden's weaknesses and let him do his thing offensively. When Beverley went down they were not able to do that and it opened up holes for opponents. To me I'd rather have a complete player. To each their own.

Howard missed half the year and clearly wasn't the player he was in years past. Houston was right to sign him but he's been beatup and not the player he was in Orlando. Trevor Ariza isn't 1 of the best SFs in the NBA either, you're working backwards to find an answer now. He's a good 3 and D guy but gimme a break. Nobody is considering him an elite swingman.

Losing in the conference finals isn't a negative. They beat a good Clippers team rd 2 that beat the defending champs. You can downplay it if you want but only 1 team wins the title.

 

[PatsFan1283]

delete

 

[PatsFan1283]

It's funny Jake because most people just watch the ball and think all the guys who score are the best players, this is how someone like Kevin Love gets overrated. They don't take into account a lot of the aspects of the game that you clearly recognize and I give you credit for that.

However, you go to an extreme end of almost underrating scoring. At the end of the day it's still easier to find good defenders than it is to find a top 5-10 elite scorer. There is a reason Memphis and Chicago go out in rd 2 every year.

 

[HacheMan]

It's funny Jake because most people just watch the ball and think all the guys who score are the best players, this is how someone like Kevin Love gets overrated. They don't take into account a lot of the aspects of the game that you clearly recognize and I give you credit for that.

However, you go to an extreme end of almost underrating scoring. At the end of the day it's still easier to find good defenders than it is to find a top 5-10 elite scorer. There is a reason Memphis and Chicago go out in rd 2 every year.

Kevin Love is not overrated.

He doesn't just score.

Has always been at the top of the list in rebounding and he can shoot from anywhere.

You can't measure any player who is on LeBron's team because we all know how that works...

 

[PatsFan1283]

Kevin Love is not overrated.

He doesn't just score.

Has always been at the top of the list in rebounding and he can shoot from anywhere.

You can't measure any player who is on LeBron's team because we all know how that works...

He's a good player and 1 of the more skillful guys, he isn't overrated now. A year ago when people thought he was top 5 in the league he was overrated though. He was never that type of player, I said it then and it's moreso consensus opinion now.

If your a PF/C and you can't really impact the game defensively at all, your value gets marginalized. The games just so much pick and roll now that bigs without lateral quickness have a lot of problems with it. This is a big reason why David Lee went from a 19-11 guy on good efficiency to the Warriors 9th man in the span of a year and the team got significantly better. David Lee is a really good offensive player but it's just tough these days if you can't play both ways. With the way teams play now, pretty much everyone has to guard everyone.

Lowe wrote a pretty good piece on him like a week ago.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/whats-next-for-kevin-love/

 

[JakeT.]

It's funny Jake because most people just watch the ball and think all the guys who score are the best players, this is how someone like Kevin Love gets overrated. They don't take into account a lot of the aspects of the game that you clearly recognize and I give you credit for that.

However, you go to an extreme end of almost underrating scoring. At the end of the day it's still easier to find good defenders than it is to find a top 5-10 elite scorer. There is a reason Memphis and Chicago go out in rd 2 every year.

I understand what you are saying but I just think Harden is more of a regular season player you have to surround with defensive talent to have a team with a legit shot at a title. That alone makes him a borderline top 10 guy for me.

If you put Harden high up you have to include Carmelo pretty high up as well it would seem. Carmelo has scored more than Harden in most recent seasons. Shoots better. Rebounds better. Turns the ball over half as much.

He obviously plays with less talent around him and is much worse at making his teammates better, but offensively they are pretty close in a lot of categories. Why does Harden make your list but Carmelo doesn't?

 

[JakeT.]

Also on a side note I think Ariza is right below the elite level of SF. You have LeBron by himself, then Kawhi. Then I think Ariza is in the next group with guys like Carroll, Deng, maybe Giannis. I'd take Ariza over Rudy Gay any day.

 

[PatsFan1283]

I understand what you are saying but I just think Harden is more of a regular season player you have to surround with defensive talent to have a team with a legit shot at a title. That alone makes him a borderline top 10 guy for me.

If you put Harden high up you have to include Carmelo pretty high up as well it would seem. Carmelo has scored more than Harden in most recent seasons. Shoots better. Rebounds better. Turns the ball over half as much.

He obviously plays with less talent around him and is much worse at making his teammates better, but offensively they are pretty close in a lot of categories. Why does Harden make your list but Carmelo doesn't?

Harden is better on both sides of the ball than someone like Melo. Higher TS% because he shoots more 3s at a higher % and gets to the line more. Not to mention almost doubles Melo in assists. With their being more shooting on the court than ever, guys who can create are more valuable now. You get a guy an open 3, that's the best shot you can take. Big reason the NBA has become a guard dominated game. I mean he's just better.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Also on a side note I think Ariza is right below the elite level of SF. You have LeBron by himself, then Kawhi. Then I think Ariza is in the next group with guys like Carroll, Deng, maybe Giannis. I'd take Ariza over Rudy Gay any day.

He's a good 3 and D guy but he's still a roleplayer. Can't create offense. Harden created more of their offense this year than any other player for their team in the league.

Durant, George, Hayward, Batum to name a few.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Hache you think I'm harsh on Love for his D? Jake probably has Love outside his top 300

This dude would cut Dirk for not playing great D

 

[festeringZit]

My list...

1. LeBron James
2. Chris Paul
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Anthony Davis
5. John Wall
6. Kawhi Leonard
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Kevin Durant
9. Stephen Curry
10. James Harden
10a. Marc Gasol or Russell Westbrook or Blake Griffin

Defense counts.

Nevermind... apparently I'm blind.

 

[HacheMan]

Hache you think I'm harsh on Love for his D? Jake probably has Love outside his top 300

This dude would cut Dirk for not playing great D

I'd consider defensive rebounding part of playing defense.

Everyone isn't a lockdown defender.

Again, you can't judge what's happening this year.

Everyone takes a back seat to guys like Lebron.

Ask Bosh & Wade.

I almost ranked him at 10 over Howard but if Howard is healthy he's dominant.

My ranking assumed all players are healthy and playing.

Same age....same youth or decline...But healthy

And a healthy Kobe, for example, is still up there...His talent didn't just vanish overnight.

Now going into next year there's no telling. He may drop drastically.

I've always loved the argument about some guys putting up great numbers because they are on a lousy team.

Ok why aren't alllll of the other average & below average players putting up those numbers as well??

Really a ridiculous theory...

 

[PatsFan1283]

I'd consider defensive rebounding part of playing defense.

Everyone isn't a lockdown defender.

Again, you can't judge what's happening this year.

Everyone takes a back seat to guys like Lebron.

Ask Bosh & Wade.

I almost ranked him at 10 over Howard but if Howard is healthy he's dominant.

My ranking assumed all players are healthy and playing.

Same age....same youth or decline...But healthy

And a healthy Kobe, for example, is still up there...His talent didn't just vanish overnight.

Now going into next year there's no telling. He may drop drastically.

I've always loved the argument about some guys putting up great numbers because they are on a lousy team.

Ok why aren't alllll of the other average & below average players putting up those numbers as well??

Really a ridiculous theory...

Your idea of putting up numbers and my idea of that are probably two different things then. Kobe shot 37%, 29% from 3, he really can't do much when the ball isn't in his hands anymore. A lot of guys could score 22 if you gave them 20 shots a game and their teams would win 1/3rd of their games or whatever. He's played like 45 games the last 2 years combined. When you get old like that it isn't really being hurt, it's moreso your body just can't play basketball at a high level 3-4 a week. He's just chucking on a bad team. He was like the most inefficient player in the league last year. It's not like you can really fit what he does into the framework of a good team.

Your average solid wing player shot the same from 3 as Kobe shot from the field last year, think about that. Not the same volume but still that speaks to how inefficent he was.

 

[PatsFan1283]

This dude is 7'3 in 8th grade. That is messed up.

 

[JakeT.]

Hache you think I'm harsh on Love for his D? Jake probably has Love outside his top 300

This dude would cut Dirk for not playing great D

Hey now I actually think Dirk's defense is solid lately. He's come a long ways.

Love isn't anywhere near my top 10 but he's not trash. Just more of a stat player than a guy who will win you championships. That being said a big man who can rebound and stretch opposing defenses has value. Is he worth the max deal versus someone like Ilyasova who can do some similar things? Nope. I'm not a huge Love fan but he's good. One of those guys that won't win a ring leading a team but can be a valuable part if other players are strong. Teaming with LeBron is the perfect spot for him.

 

[texansfan]

It's funny Jake because most people just watch the ball and think all the guys who score are the best players, this is how someone like Kevin Love gets overrated. They don't take into account a lot of the aspects of the game that you clearly recognize and I give you credit for that.

However, you go to an extreme end of almost underrating scoring. At the end of the day it's still easier to find good defenders than it is to find a top 5-10 elite scorer. There is a reason Memphis and Chicago go out in rd 2 every year.

Don't waste your breath Pats, I live in Houston and watched this team all year. Jake is way off in his assessment of Harden. Without Harden the Rockets are easily a lottery team.

 

[JakeT.]

Don't waste your breath Pats, I live in Houston and watched this team all year. Jake is way off in his assessment of Harden. Without Harden the Rockets are easily a lottery team.

Never said he's not important to the team. Hell I put him in my top 10. I just don't think he's as important to winning championships as 9 other players in the entire league... that's not too shabby.

 

[akphidelt]

This dude is 7'3 in 8th grade. That is messed up.

Vlad would ball his ass up with his safety goggles and knee pads.

 

[Greenbacks]

NBA don`t even have 10 great players this day and age....

1-LeBron
2-Kevin Durant
3-Russell Westbrook
4-Anthony Davis
5-James Harden